yes shifts, tide (sort of), sea state, gain features ect are important since everyone is super fast.

SeanAUS120 said..

thedoor said..
wondering how much of IQ is strategy reading windshifts etc versus PWA which seems to be balls out, and if that may explain why the PWA guys don't dominate IQ outside of goyard

Definitely agree that kit familiarity plays a huge roll in successful foiling and I can see the challenge of switching from PWA gear to IQ.

There's very little tactics in PWA slalom! You need to understand how fast you are in a straight line relative to everyone else in your heat so you can know whether you want to push the start at the right end and get to the mark first, or if you aren't the fastest you position yourself to be in a good clean spot to gybe through the pack. After the first gybe not too much changes ... no thoughts about tide, wind changes etc etc; you just react as it happens on the course.

IQFoil is course racing and ohhh boy there's a LOT going on. The calculations you need to do in your head are intense... come round the bottom mark and there's a slight knock in the wind but if you tack now, you need to do 2 tacks to the top mark instead of 1 (you lose 5-10 seconds per tack: IS THIS SHIFT WORTH 20 SECONDS?? Decide instantly). This is why it's important to have a coachboat out on the water because the coach is watching the guys coming behind you and can tell you what happened in the tide or as the wind changes over the afternoon so you can improve each race. It honestly takes years and years to get your head around these tactics, that's why i'm VERY impressed with Grae Morris; windsurfing has generally been dominated by guys who've already been course racing for +15 years.

The PWA guys who do (or should) well in IQfoil are the ones who were good at Formula racing. Sebastian Kordell has been on the podium at Worlds in Formula so no surpise he's very good at course racing on an IQfoil.

That's what I'm liking about iq, and formula foil. Tactics is part of the game. It's not just a drag race. As much as I love the speed and exhilaration of slalom kit, I missed the tactics from back in my sailing days.

len024 said..
they would they train in up to 40 knots so in 30 they aren't thinking about it and just focussing on going the right way.

Not to be the annoying but few can sail in 40 knots of wind. And few locations actually see sustained 40 knots of wind, you have to go to the Gorge, and certainly you would not last with a 9.0 square sail ...

duzzi said..

len024 said..
they would they train in up to 40 knots so in 30 they aren't thinking about it and just focussing on going the right way.

Not to be the annoying but few can sail in 40 knots of wind. And few locations actually see sustained 40 knots of wind, you have to go to the Gorge, and certainly you would not last with a 9.0 square sail ...

ok... people sail (but not enjoy) 49ers in 40 knots of wind. i have been coached by many ASS or AST athletes (for sailing) who have mentioned they train in up to 40 knots so that 30 is easy. Aswell as went to the iq youth worlds were there were kids on 8.0 out in 40knots for the practice race which got cancelled shortly after but they sailed home fine almost 3km

sheddweller said..
49er policy was 25 knots max average for racing with a 2-5 knots reduction for rougher waters, so max 20-23 knots average in rough waters.( This was my old understanding of the race policy anyway, could be wrong, you can check world sailing guidance if you want it is there somewhere)
Neither they, nor iq are racing in 40 knots average. Neither is anyone else on a 9m sail

yes that is sort of right but at the olympic level it can be gusting up to 35 knots for example but be averaging 25 knots. No restrictions on training in fact heres a video of the Croatian team training in 40 knots. they obviously got smashed but 30 knots would be easy for these guys. iq races in max 35 average so can be gusting to 40 easy if a gnarly day. For clarification I do not train iq foil in over 30 knots i am neither crazy enough or skilled enough.

Sailors always over estimate wind speed. I can count on one hand the number of times I've measured 30kts on my wind meter on the beach and subsequently sailed and that was using 3 cammed 5.4 or 5.7 sails on a 55 wide speed board in flat water at Lake George and The Pit. Sure there were some peaks up to 35kts. It was hard sailing in these conditions with gear specifically design to do so.

I've never sailed in 40kts. I think it's complete BS that anyone would attempt to foil on an IQfoil in 40kts

len024 said..

sheddweller said..
49er policy was 25 knots max average for racing with a 2-5 knots reduction for rougher waters, so max 20-23 knots average in rough waters.( This was my old understanding of the race policy anyway, could be wrong, you can check world sailing guidance if you want it is there somewhere)
Neither they, nor iq are racing in 40 knots average. Neither is anyone else on a 9m sail

yes that is sort of right but at the olympic level it can be gusting up to 35 knots for example but be averaging 25 knots. No restrictions on training in fact heres a video of the Croatian team training in 40 knots. they obviously got smashed but 30 knots would be easy for these guys. iq races in max 35 average so can be gusting to 40 easy if a gnarly day. For clarification I do not train iq foil in over 30 knots i am neither crazy enough or skilled enough.

If it really makes you happy to think that a 220 by 95 wide foil board and a 9.0 sail can go train in sustained 40 knots, or 30 knots for that matter, please go ahead. And the same if you believe youtube video with catchy titles. Happiness is good!

But 25 knots of sustained wind, that is the average over a 2' period, is a real lot. 40 knots is right at the threshold between force 8 and 9 Beaufort. It is when you start to see blown foam over the sea.

How did you measure it and over what time period are you averaging?

sheddweller said..
How did you measure it and over what time period are you averaging?

measured from the start boat it was averaging 28 gusting 34. Seabreeze recording 32 at nobbys head. No point arguing further and respectfully I am not really interested in persuading people. Just know i have been to Cadiz for the IQ youth worlds were we had 2 Atlantic storms in 3 days with the first being 35-45 knots and 2 meter waves and the second averaging 50 with gusts of up to 58 (waves 4-5 meters have never seen such insane weather). No body was sailing in the grunt of either these storms (impossible) however the first storm it ramped up on the practice race day which was a optional race day. the kids who launched in the already 2 meter waves and 30 knots were handling it just fine (youth competition so kids) however they had to go in just before a race could be started because the wind had increased to 35-40 knots at the start boat and it was unsafe to race not to mention visibility was zero due to rain. they sailed home on a reach hooked in and at full speed (although in survival mode). I think if lightweight kids can do a 8 meter in this conditions considering the sea state it is feasible for the adults to have trained in this conditions. Anyway i don't really want to argue this point further because it is irrelevant the point is that IQ foil men and women are on another level they aren't olympians for nothing after all. PWA athletes are on another level just not the level the olympians are currently at after all goyard smokes them when he comes to PWA and koerdel not far behind.

sheddweller said..

John340 said..
Sailors always over estimate wind speed. I can count on one hand the number of times I've measured 30kts on my wind meter on the beach and subsequently sailed and that was using 3 cammed 5.4 or 5.7 sails on a 55 wide speed board in flat water at Lake George and The Pit. Sure there were some peaks up to 35kts. It was hard sailing in these conditions with gear specifically design to do so.

I've never sailed in 40kts. I think it's complete BS that anyone would attempt to foil on an IQfoil in 40kts

i think they do both. They overestimate stronger winds and they under estimate lighter winds.
Hence i got foiling in 5 knots of wind claim, and/or i was using a 9.0 in 40 knots claim.
The increase in sail power from 30 to 40 knots is getting on for double isnt it?

len024 said..

sheddweller said..
49er policy was 25 knots max average for racing with a 2-5 knots reduction for rougher waters, so max 20-23 knots average in rough waters.( This was my old understanding of the race policy anyway, could be wrong, you can check world sailing guidance if you want it is there somewhere)
Neither they, nor iq are racing in 40 knots average. Neither is anyone else on a 9m sail

yes that is sort of right but at the olympic level it can be gusting up to 35 knots for example but be averaging 25 knots. No restrictions on training in fact heres a video of the Croatian team training in 40 knots. they obviously got smashed but 30 knots would be easy for these guys. iq races in max 35 average so can be gusting to 40 easy if a gnarly day. For clarification I do not train iq foil in over 30 knots i am neither crazy enough or skilled enough.

Yes i just looked at that video- the water state doesn't say 40 knots to me, but it is a location i don't know so i could be reading it wrong. However it looks in the 25 knots range to me ( which would mean some stronger puffs) and they actually say the wind is 30+ knots- so from what i see they are probably talking about the gusts not the average. happy to be corrected, maybe i just understimate windspeed all the time.

Maybe not 40 then but after all why would olympians be struggling in 25 knots? i reckon 30-35 because these guys are world champions in 2018 and bronze in 2022 so I can't imagine they would be struggling to stay upright in 25 knots as you wouldn't do well in a medal race upside down

CJW said..
... I'd like to see someone sail a 49er in even 35kts, I'd be surprised if you could even bear it away.

ah! that brings back memories. Racing a 9 meters Matia racing catamaran in an overnight regata at Lago Maggiore, circa 1984 During the night on the long downwind leg we were hit by a strong clearing tramontana wind. No idea of the speed, at night with no instruments, but I do remember the sensation of panic when I realized that I could not change direction. The rudder was completely ineffective, probably cavitating continuosly!

Also i love skiffs , they are great fun and they always feel so fast when you are sailing them- but its funny isnt it the max speed and personal record is 24 knots, soooo slow :-)

John340 said..
I've never sailed in 40kts. I think it's complete BS that anyone would attempt to foil on an IQfoil in 40kts

Crazy, yes. Complete BS, no. 40 knots averages is the highest I ever sailed in, and it was survival on 3.7. But a few better (and lighter!) sailors were having a blast, planing through duck jibes and jumping around.
The more relevant session, though, was one where I was struggling a lot on a small sail (4.7 or smaller), thinking I was hopelessly overpowered (which typically requires 40+ mph gusts on the 4.7). During the same time, a local girl that was competing in a standard class (Techno 293 IIRC) was our training on an 8.0, doing just fine. She was quite a bit shorter and skinnier than I was, but clearly had mad skills.