Select to expand quoteLeeD said..
Listen to Segler.
At 73 kgs., a Naish 122 with 1220 wing and 5.2 gets me up and going in 12 knot gusts with pumping.
Nobody else is going except for racers with 8 meters or wingers pumping hard with 5's.
I just switched to a 600 kitewing....about the same with maybe a few more pumps to build a bit more speed.
Still need 12 knots.
Guys smaller than me on bigger slalom boards get going in the same breeze using 7.5 meter sails and hard pumping.
hum, numbers are tricky but ... Lee, do you mean mph? 12 knots of wind is "quite a lot", it is almost 14mph. It is a "moderate breeze", characterized by frequent wind caps. At 72 Kg, I am definitely going with my Isonic + 7.3 and no serious pumping when there are few to no white caps ... and in my pathetic foil attempts I can fly with few white caps around with just a 5.4 ACX. To answer the original question: photo below is with my Moses 790 ... seems plenty at my weight, I have no idea what the lower limit, in terms of wind speed, would be with a 6.5 or bigger. The Foil board, Flikka, could hold a 6.8-7.3 cambered sail or up to 7.5 ACX.
Couple of strings attached to my comments here. I'm fairly experienced but not a high performance sailor/foiler. I'm looking to get going in as light a wind as possible while carrying a medium sized sail (no bigger than a 6m).
My take on this is even for light guys (like me at 70kg) a bigger foil definitely lowers the take off speed. I went from a Naish 1220 and getting going in 13+ knots to 11 or so knots wind speed with the Naish 1570cm2 foil. I also got a foil specific sail - Naish lift 5.7 and it dropped the fly wind speed to around 10 knots (the wind speeds are taken by our meteorology station a few km away). A mate (of similar weight) has an i84 and it's take off speed is similar - perhaps a little lower than me. It also hangs in there a little better than the naish 1570. Stall speed seems a little less. And it feels a little more stable.
I'm really down to now having to outlay quite a lot of cash to lower the minimum fly speed for my setup. I think I've reached the lower threshold of take off windspeeds for my ability. To be able to get going (with some pumping) in 10 knots, I'm pretty chuffed. We get lots of days here where it's 10-12 knots for seabreezes. Perfect for foiling.
For bigger guys, I suspect the bigger foils would benefit them in getting going in lighter winds proportionally at least as much as it benefits us scrawny lighweights.
Select to expand quoteduzzi said..
duzzi, is that you? You've been holding out on us! Looking good, my man!
martyj4, a good friend added a Flyer 8.2 as the sail above his Lift 5.7. We live in a light air location and he's gotten a lot of use out of it. Rigs on a 460 SDM and pretty moderate boom length. I know it sounds big but it's only 5 battens and it's quite easy to handle. Something like that or a rec 2 cam freeride will give you noticeable range in lighter air.
My instinct tell me if you want to break the 10 kts threshold, you need to take large sail and going toward freerace foil with less drag?
Select to expand quotePaducah said..duzzi said..
duzzi, is that you? You've been holding out on us! Looking good, my man!
martyj4, a good friend added a Flyer 8.2 as the sail above his Lift 5.7. We live in a light air location and he's gotten a lot of use out of it. Rigs on a 460 SDM and pretty moderate boom length. I know it sounds big but it's only 5 battens and it's quite easy to handle. Something like that or a rec 2 cam freeride will give you noticeable range in lighter air.
Yes, that is me, in my world famous 300 meters long flying run!!!!!!!!!
+1 for Paducah's comment about the F800 wing for the AFS foil system.
I used the stock AFS foil for a couple years, but was not making progress with the stock F700 wing (779 cm2). When I got the F800 (1120 cm2), everything changed. It was a massive game-changer.
For most rider weights, a wing area of about 1100 cm2 is the "sweet spot" for the balance of lift and speed and usability. Yes, of course, you can go bigger, such as i76 and up, but my experience is that bigger than 1100 cm2 does not yield very much additional flight ease in light winds. Maybe 1-2 kts of lower threshold.
If I don't see at least the occasional whitecap (11 kts) out there, I don't even rig. You need some wind energy to make things work. 10-12 kts is the absolute minimum, and only if you are really fit and can pump hard. 8 kts? Naw. Wishful thinking. Maybe 8 kts with gusts to 12 kts, but an average of 8 kts won't do the job.
Select to expand quoteNordRoi said..
My instinct tell me if you want to break the 10 kts threshold, you need to take large sail and going toward freerace foil with less drag?
With a 6.0 twin cam v8 and my infinty 76 I can easily get foiling in 10kts. I still like to rig as small as possible, so far at my level of foiling I figured this is my range at 65kgs with the infinty 76 wing-fwind/wizard 105.
Sail size/wind range(kts)
6.0/8-12
5.2/10-15
4.2/10-20
3.5/gusts 20+
then use timecode 68(1100cm2) when overpowered.
My sails have some over lap but those are the ideal wind speed per sail size for common conditions I get. I believe the i76(1500cm2) might be a little faster then the time code 68(1100cm2) but would have to test more back to back.
I imagine any 2000cm2 plus wing is not very maneuverable but it's what you get on the low end everything feels slow in 10kts anyway and big sails are not as fun for throwing around doing duck gybes especially camberd sails, I've only been able to duck gybe sails <5.2 .
In theory I would like to eventually add a bigger wing to my quiver. I like switching wings instead of rigging a different sail if the wind dies down or picks up but a smaller sail is always more fun
Enjoying reading everybody's different experiences with large area or small area wings for light wind. Nobody has the exact same setup, water condition or body type so there are dozens of factors that have people choosing the front wing that works best for what they want to do.
Would love to go to a foil clinic and try different front wings to see what I like and what I gain on the low end, pumping abilities, turning, glide, etc.
Hello,
since June I did spend a lot of time trying to find the best tunning for foiling.
during one of these session I got the following light wind where I was able to foil with 8-10kts gust and I am not a good pumper
I did ride from 11:30 to 16:00
I try the following configuration
Falcon 148L + S-type 7,8 + I84 C position rear wing 48
Falcon 148L + S-type 7,8 + I76 B position rear wing 42
Falcon 148L + S-type 7,8 + I76 C position rear wing 42
Wizard 125 + S-type 7,8 + I84 C position rear wing 48
Wizard 125 + S-type 7,8 + I76 B position rear wing 42
Wizard 125 + S-type 7,8 + I76 C position rear wing 42
Wizard 125 + Super session 6.0 + I84 C position rear wing 48
Wizard 125 + Super session 6.0+ I76 B position rear wing 42
Wizard 125 + Super session 6.0+ I76 C position rear wing 42
For universal 104cm from TTB first Bolt
Footstrap position:
Falcon front foostrap at second hole from front, rear foostrap at second hole from rear
Wizard front footstrap at first hole from front and rear footstrap at 2nd from rear
Rider : 1,82m + 73-74kgs
At 6kts I was burning myself pumping
at 8kts I was at the limit of take and find needing a big kick on the tail of the board to start flying.
at 10kts was good but more rear foot pressure.
The best option for pumping and reach a sub foiling stage was the Falcon and S-type width, carbon and cam sail are good for it, but to start the flight was more difficult as you have the sails weigth+ rider position forward + ttb position rearward
at the end on these condition the best configuration was :
Wizard 125 + Super session 6.0+ I76 C position rear wing 42
base on this test I did work on footstrap position for the wizard 125 and 105 and improve a lot the take off stage this got a big influence.
for my rear footstrap I am now on the last hole from the rear
Front footstrap, I try the 3rd hole from front super take of but if the gust come you will need a lot of front foot pressure to control. I will try again this in less than 12kts
The position I use now and test from 12kts to 30kts with I76 and I65 is the front foostrap at the 2nd hole from front.
I haven't test it yet with I84 but I don't feel any more the use of the C position on I76 and this should also help the take off with I84.
I want also test the I84 with the 30" mast to reduce drag and with a S-type 6,6 that could be a good option for Cam sail but lighter than the 7.8
I did work on boom position this is helping a lot my average position is L on N/S supersession/Volt/Ice, I need now to have better harness line length as 26 is too long will try shorter adjustable one.
I am thinking at a I99 but first I want to push at his maximum the tunning test to see how the I84 working and if I can ride without US box track to move the foil forward.
Hi
What a deep study!!
In my case, I don't have conclusions for the moment only questions
Regarding the front wing size in low wind and different styles of windfoiling, I've seen something difficult to explain. On the one hand there is a lotof people that recommend me for my size (68 kg) nothing bigger than 1500 cm2 front wing with small sails (5,3) at 12 knots. I know other examples of very big people (>100kg) with 1800 front wing who can't go with stronger wind than 25 knots. It seems logical.
On the other hand many people from WWF use 2000 Maliko gofoil from 60 to 80 kg, the same small sails and wind range from 12 to 28 knots. Besides this big foil is manoeuvrable for the small guys too.
Which is the explanation of these two different performances? The first group has aluminium foils from different brands. Is the gofoil carbon maliko foil so good that increases the range so much for any rider weight? Does the advanced position of the foil in WWF make this big foil so manoeuvrable?
I'm tempted to buy a bigger front wing, but as it would be aluminium I think it would be too big for me.
Thanks.
