Select to expand quoteBasher said..
Notes on windsurf boards.
1) We can have light boards which are well made, and I've had several from the Cobra factory, and under many different brands. The one board I had a warranty claim on was made in a different factory. I have several old boards made at the Cobra factory which are still going strong. I have three recent ones as well.
2) A good construction can be lightweight AND strong. A heavier construction can actually be weaker if the cheaper materials are used and where little sanding of excess materials occurs. A good construction takes time, in terms of labour costs. And that's why most boards are not made in rich western countries.
3) Cobra are a manufacturing institution, based in Thailand, where many laminated products including our windsurf boards are made to the brand label's specifications. - This means some breakages or other failures are down to the brand's designer's layup specifications.
4) But some people will be unlucky with that 'Friday afternoon board' where the worker absent-mindedly sanded a seam too much or else just didn't care. If that neglect then caused a failure then that should be then a warranty claim, and your first call will be to the shop or online retailer who sold you the board. If the board is more than one year old, then you won't get much help because, after one year, it's often down to wear and tear, or owner abuse.
5) We do need to talk about abuse. Some windsurfers break boards regularly. Sometimes it's the same guys, who are just heavy footed, or heavy on their gear, and the average board structure - which might work just fine for your average 70-90kgs sailor - is not built for them. My advice to you serial board breakers is to go to a custom builder for a heavy duty construction. I suspect you may still break those boards
6) Many other windsurfers are learners, and they catapult a lot, usually smashing board noses. This can be heartbreaking when it happens to a new board, but the real answer is to learn not to catapult. Harsh, I know, but true.
7) And there's maybe a third type of windsurfer, who doesn't treat his equipment well and the damage seen later could have started through careless transport and storage - or after an accident that was conveniently forgotten about, and where self blame is never acknowledged.
8 ) Am I sticking up for the Cobra factory? Yeah. Most of their products turn out just fine, are very well presented, and the world would be a worse or more expensive place without them. But, for sure, if you can get a good board from a local custom builder, then that is a great alternative too.
unlucky "friday afternoon board", over 90kgs is too fat, claiming catapults as warranty, what a load of rubbish. The photo's presented in this thread are clearly not related at all to the points you list.
You pay 3 or 4 or 5 thousand for a board you have every right to expect quality, that's a lot of money. Imagine buying a guitar or something similar for the same dollars and a year later it's falling apart.
The promises about quality from the brands are clear, you pay your money based on those promises. Making apologies/excuses for poor product is BS.
Just finished sticking down the foam on a 2018 Fanatic freewave STB TXTR. Also replaced the foot straps as the fabric is ripped. The 12-year-old starboard is still fine. Yeah a little pissed but I think I'd be losing my nana if something really went wrong and I had bought it brand new.
How hard is it to glue down the deck pads the first time correctly?
Select to expand quoteADinis said..
Cobra and Kinetic made what board brands??
Kinetic
- Tabou
- Simmer
Cobra
- Starboard
- JP
??
Do Kinetic make Tabou boards? I thought they use to be Cobra as well. Have they changed?
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..JakeNN said.. That's the problem .. I would rather a board that has been refined, tested and selected by world's leading pros as the best design to use as the template for my production board.
Secondly, almost all new boards now have the "hard" parts like tail and sharp rails moulded on with bog. Its easier.
In a custom you will have the PVC foam layer vac bagged on ALL of the board and glass etc over ALL of that. Its not easy at the borders, but we do it. Fussily. For the customer. An increasingly-seen trend is make a board with squared-off end then mould on bog for the last 10-15mm. That's why when you bang it lightly on the ground it fails.
I see this crap all the time - and Jake you have no idea what you're talking about. Come around, I'll show you.
Mark - my Exocet S3 2014 is just like that. It has quite sharp boxy rails mid section and once the vinyl decoration peeled off the edge it pulled some paint off the hull by the rail. The underneath was peppered with pin holes. Looks like some sort of epoxy filler (bog as you call it?). So I filled those in with resin. Exocet have dropped the fancy decoration with vinyl recently, presumably because of customer feedback.
The deck from the mast track back is still very solid, no soft spots after 242 sessions. There is some delam on the rail near the nose where the board flexed after a few catapults, fixed with expanding epoxy. Probably due to scooped out nose and/or poor build. Apart from that, design wise its ok, but really needs more nose rocker, slightly shorter planing flat and more 'v' from the mast track to straps. I'm thinking of taking it to the UK custom builder and saying use that as a start point. Or emailing XT Designs in France as Jean-Marie Guriec was Exocet's shaper, so he should know exactly what I want.
That S3 was a replacement for a SCross I bought which went soft on the deck after 4 months and was replaced under warranty. I sail a lot as retired, so if I was sailing 'normal' amount of sessions it might have been out of warranty.
JakeNN. I'm looking around for a replacement board for 6.5-7.5m sailing, fast freeride/freerace, 115l or thereabouts, 68-70cm wide, no wide and thin low volume boards that crack too easy around the nose if you do catapult, eg like Futura , without a recessed deck for the mast track, a carbon deck for lightness/stiffness (full carbon would be good), tuttlebox, no foil box (dont need the extra 200g weight or would prefer that weight on reinforcement elsewhere), no goretex valve. Any ideas?
ps to my earlier post. My other Cobra built boards have been fine, apart from a Fanatic Falcon 2009 which went soft on the deck prematurely after 90 or so sessions. My 2016 Exocet Cross 94l light weight full carbon has been use a lot and is holding up well apart from a small hole punched on the rail which wasnt down to build quality.
I'm am noticing other peoples boards getting damage which shouldnt really happen, through build quality or design, and as Cobra build most boards its easy to just blame them. Horizontal crack around a thin square nosed board for instance. Design or build?
I've got an AHD foil board an the paint is chipping on that. So I dont think paint issues are exclusively Cobra, I think possibly its more eco friendly paints in use these days dont stick so well. Like for motor bike tanks.
The beach I use does have small stones & shells, and carrying a foil board around is harder than a fin board though. Fin board I go straight from water to grass and dont touch the beach.
Select to expand quotesegler said..
How about Fanatic and Exocet?
I've had a number of exocets. Some have broken at a young age and some have been very durable. I sail in rough open water conditions. They're probably only average. I guess I buy them because of their sailing characteristics, not because they are better quality.
Tell us more about Kinetic. Who? Where? Who for?
I do know that Mike's Lab and Roberts boards I have had over the years have been bullet-proof. Mike Z and Rob M built great gear.
In my opinion this is a non issue. Cobra sell ten thousands of boards each year. If they have a 0,5% fail rate that's 50 boards with issues for every 10.000 built.
A custom builder maybe produces 200 boards per year tops. If they have a fail rate of 0,5% that's 1 each year.
The 1 failed custom you won't hear about. The same with the 9.950 customers who have bought a Cobra board and have zero issues.
Select to expand quotePhilUK said..ADinis said..
Cobra and Kinetic made what board brands??
Kinetic
- Tabou
- Simmer
Cobra
- Starboard
- JP
??
Do Kinetic make Tabou boards? I thought they use to be Cobra as well. Have they changed?
Yes they do unless they VERY recently changed.
Select to expand quoteTheTank said..
In my opinion this is a non issue. Cobra sell ten thousands of boards each year. If they have a 0,5% fail rate that's 50 boards with issues for every 10.000 built.
A custom builder maybe produces 200 boards per year tops. If they have a fail rate of 0,5% that's 1 each year.
The 1 failed custom you won't hear about. The same with the 9.950 customers who have bought a Cobra board and have zero issues.
Where do you get 0.5% fail rate ? An add in a magazine ? What is a fail ? Are these fails in the first year ?
Ive seen waaaay more than 0.5% of what I would call an unacceptable fail .
Select to expand quoteImax1 said..
Where do you get 0.5% fail rate ? An add in a magazine ? What is a fail ? Are these fails in the first year ?
Ive seen waaaay more than 0.5% of what I would call an unacceptable fail .
I guess if the 0.5% fail rate is your board then you'll have a very different view from the rest of us.
If it was 2% you might share the same views with a few more people.
And I'd be angry too, if it was my ?$?2,000+ board.
But personal anger can give a skewed view of reality.
On the old Boards forum we also had custom manufacturers who'd use those on-line rants and anger to market their small-output boards as being somehow better - when, actually, they weren't.
The true advantage of going with a custom builder, is you develop a personal relationship with the same guy who probably laminates the board.
One topic, when a board fails, you need to know what your consumer rights are, and you also need to know when warranty has run out.
Maybe I have a skewed point of view through personal experience with new and s/h late model raceboards. I have owned a few, maybe 5, they have pretty much all had issues, and often a combination of the below
They include
decks cracking in multiple locations
mast tracks failing, even the new replacement tracks failing
Gaskets falling off
Centreboard plates failing, centreboard pivots falling out
Footstraps breaking, footstrap plugs leaking
I have seen centreboard cases fail as well in more than one board
Not a 0.5% or 2% fail rate, more like a 100% fail rate or 120% fail rate given the multiple issues
Have I been unlucky, I don't think so, nearly every one I know in RB circles has had issues with the boards and we are talking >$5000 now to buy a new one
I also have a 1999 Mistral Superlight 2, 20 years old, original footstraps straps, original mast track, original centreboard and original weight. Those boards and others from that era are far better quality in terms of construction of the hull and the components than whats on offer now.
Select to expand quoteImax1 said..TheTank said..
In my opinion this is a non issue. Cobra sell ten thousands of boards each year. If they have a 0,5% fail rate that's 50 boards with issues for every 10.000 built.
A custom builder maybe produces 200 boards per year tops. If they have a fail rate of 0,5% that's 1 each year.
The 1 failed custom you won't hear about. The same with the 9.950 customers who have bought a Cobra board and have zero issues.
Where do you get 0.5% fail rate ? An add in a magazine ? What is a fail ? Are these fails in the first year ?
Ive seen waaaay more than 0.5% of what I would call an unacceptable fail .
Nowhere I'm saying they have a 0,5% failrate.. I said IF.. 0,5% is just an example. This is me as a satisfied user of many Cobra boards, some of them heavily abused, but none having had serious issues, saying stop complaining.
As with all things you can never do it right with certain people when you produce in large numbers. If you build a certain product with a fail rate of 0,5% after QC and only sell 100 of these products a year you won't hear any complaints. Most, if not all people would say you've got your QC on point. Because only once in two years time one of the products you delivered to your customers failed.
By some chance your production goes up to 10.000 and your fail rate and QC stay the same. Over a 1 year period with 250 work days that's 40 units per day or 1 unit per week that passed QC where it shouldn't. You've got 50 faulty products delivered to customers and 9.950 without any problems. In general you won't hear any complaint from the 9.950 and most of the 50 who get their product replaced or repaired for free within the set guarantee period of 1 or 2 years. .You are then left with 2 groups. The first group are the ones who bought the 0,5% faulty products but the product failed after the guarantee period because the product was left, most of the time, un-used in the shed and broke the 4th or 5th time they used it in 3 or 4 years time. The second group is the remainder of 99,5% which use your product on a regular basis. A product which takes a lot of use and often abuse, and let's say has a fail rate of 3% after the 2 year guarantee period. You would still have 9.650 satisfied customers. But 300 who are let down by a failed product after the guarantee period. Of these 300 a lot won't care because they know they've abused your product. But there's always a certain percentage of those 300 who start complaining.
And what better place to complain than online.. because online you can always find other people that complain and nearly never hear any noise from the satisfied customer.
Surely I would be let down if it was my board that failed. But before I would start complaining about a 2018 product I would first contact the shop I bought my product and see if we could work things out if my usage of the product was within reasonable terms.
Another good thing about custom boards is that if a boars fails due to manufacture defects past the warranty window, I can imagine will try to make it right still (replace, repair for free or very cheap, etc). Again, better if the board maker is local.
Another good thing about custom boards is that if a boars fails due to manufacture defects past the warranty window, I can imagine will try to make it right still (replace, repair for free or very cheap, etc). Again, better if the board maker is local.
So who makes the JP MagicRides and Goya Bolts?, overall they were well made in my opinion, though the first Bolt had some pin holes on the edges and cutouts that were not a smooth curve on the vertical (a little wavey), but Goya got me a replacement right away and it was perfect!
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..
So who makes the JP MagicRides and Goya Bolts?, overall they were well made in my opinion, though the first Bolt had some pin holes on the edges and cutouts that were not a smooth curve on the vertical (a little wavey), but Goya got me a replacement right away and it was perfect!
Cobra made both.
To be fair I have owned many Cobra made boards and all have been made well . Saying that they have all been well over 10 years old .
All the problems I'm seeing is in later models . Not just flimsy construction but dodgy construction .
I believe the life expectancy of a new board has dramatically gone down .
Some people accept that a board should only last a couple years .
I personally like seeing a sun drenched dinged and scratched 10 year old board that is still going strong . I don't think Cobra are making those anymore .
Maybe they're too busy pumping out wing dings. When the writing was on the wall for CRT TVs, their quality also plummeted. (Donning my flamesuit).
RIP the cobra factory, l read enough going custom for my next slalom board.
Oz customs, when l need you mark l send you my details.
Select to expand quotegavnwend said..
RIP the cobra factory, l read enough going custom for my next slalom board.Oz customs, when l need you mark l send you my details.
DIY
www.alaljojo.com/diy-kit
Select to expand quoteFaff said..gavnwend said..
RIP the cobra factory, l read enough going custom for my next slalom board.Oz customs, when l need you mark l send you my details.
DIY
www.alaljojo.com/diy-kit
Thanks Faff, l bookmark your details,
Select to expand quotegavnwend said..Faff said..gavnwend said..
RIP the cobra factory, l read enough going custom for my next slalom board.Oz customs, when l need you mark l send you my details.
DIY
www.alaljojo.com/diy-kit
Thanks Faff, l bookmark your details,
Last Instagram post back in April. Not sure if they are still active. Hollow boards sound risky to me. They are probably easier to drain though, 
Select to expand quoteShifu said..segler said..
How about Fanatic and Exocet?
I've had a number of exocets. Some have broken at a young age and some have been very durable. I sail in rough open water conditions. They're probably only average. I guess I buy them because of their sailing characteristics, not because they are better quality.
Which model/years? I think they had a problem around 2012 ish, after a change of construction. I didnt have an Exocet of that era. Although my 2014 board failed.
Select to expand quoteImax1 said..
To be fair I have owned many Cobra made boards and all have been made well . Saying that they have all been well over 10 years old .
All the problems I'm seeing is in later models . Not just flimsy construction but dodgy construction .
I believe the life expectancy of a new board has dramatically gone down .
Some people accept that a board should only last a couple years .
I personally like seeing a sun drenched dinged and scratched 10 year old board that is still going strong . I don't think Cobra are making those anymore .
In 2016 I bought a 2004 Exocet made by Cobra, it had hardly been used. I only use it with an 8.5m, but 90 sessions. A bit of paint has flake off and the white has discoloured a bit. Full carbon, its light. It doesnt get used with a 7.5m (and a bit more chop) like the Fanatic it replaced, but feels strong. Its also 1 of the 1st wider and thinner boards and has stood up to the odd catapult.
Ok so for full disclosure can anyone list where current brand boards are made...say 2021 and 2022?
Which brands are Cobra built and what other facilities are producing what brands?
Select to expand quoteImax1 said..
Surely I would be let down if it was my board that failed. But before I would start complaining about a 2018 product I would first contact the shop I bought my product and see if we could work things out if my usage of the product was within reasonable terms.
If the shop wants to take a hit thats up to them. I know of a shop who did this when the importer declined a warranty claim. If they can sort the problem and sell the board on, thats fine.
I guess if you want to improve your standing with a brand/importer/shop, write glowing reviews of every board you have and keep quiet on the bad stuff.
