Mark _australia said..
But in a shrinking industry I don't think we will see shops with 30+ brand new boards and 200 new sails anymore...

Well, here's hoping things turn around because I fear for the Aussie retailers if they don't.

I recall the RBA Chairman boldly declaring 3 months ago that interest rates would not be increasing pre-2024. Seems we now live in a grossly unpredictable world with constant and rapid change.

Mark _australia said..
^^^ I think you just upset a few people who make WS sails in Oz

That's pretty healthy then, bugs is good, you should all buy sails from him, to make sure he keeps playing. And barracouta too, if you dont use them they will do something else and you will lose them.
In the UK there used to be countless small sailmakers making windsurf sails, I don't think there are any now, certainly none doing it as their primary business.
How many sailmakers are making their own design windsurf sails in their own factories/ sail lofts as their primary business?(I guess you could count ezzy, and north now?)

Personally I wouldn't count severne and Ka as Oz built sails. Oz designed sure. But they are another "factory" brand like all the others.

i think sheddweller you are underselling severne a little. the prototypes were stitched in WA last time i checked and there is certainly more than one pro getting around with hand made sails by ben in WA. sure the average punter like me can't order custom under normal circumstances but the average punter also doesn't want to pay 2.5k for a sail just because it's made in oz.

KA, Andrew doesn't own ka and hasn't for years. still, designers and testers live in Australia so it's got the connection. like all sail brands they have to compete with price so use overseas factories. i'm not across any commercially available sail brand that doesn't.

Gestalt said..
you know it could be worse.

you could have only 1 roll of fuji 400h film in the freezer which stopped being produced 2 years ago and now have to make the choice of whether to shoot it and give up film photography or start using kodak.

Ha! I hoarded Kodachrome for years, and then found that it was no use using it as there is nowhere in the world left that can process it. Still in a cupboard somewhere.

Gestalt said..
i think sheddweller you are underselling severne a little. the prototypes were stitched in WA last time i checked and there is certainly more than one pro getting around with hand made sails by ben in WA. sure the average punter like me can't order custom under normal circumstances but the average punter also doesn't want to pay 2.5k for a sail just because it's made in oz.

KA, Andrew doesn't own ka and hasn't for years. still, designers and testers live in Australia so it's got the connection. like all sail brands they have to compete with price so use overseas factories. i'm not across any commercially available sail brand that doesn't.

Amac does still own KA sails Australia. But he licences out the Windsurfing side of it. Most of the design, and much of the testing and development is done in Australia.
There are numerous sailmakers who have built, can build, and probably still build the odd prototype or special order windsurfing sails in Australia.
Building a sail is not Rocket Science, and I personally know of at least half a dozen windsurfers who have successfully had a go at making their own sails. (Advanced design is a LOT more of an art/science!) But the economics of custom or bespoke commercial production locally (and just about probably anywhere else) just don't make much sense anymore, and probably has not since around the late '80's. Production sails are now all made in specialised factories, but many brands still have small design and development lofts in their countries of origin.

Back in the late '80's, a very Talented Kiwi sailor, Chris Torkler, visited us for the Sandy Point Speed Trials and blew us all away with his home made, self designed gear. Sails, boards, boom, fins. About the only bits of he gear he didn't make himself were the mast and the U-Joint, and I recon he could have made a pretty decent mast if he put his mind to it!

Gestalt said..
you know it could be worse.

you could have only 1 roll of fuji 400h film in the freezer which stopped being produced 2 years ago and now have to make the choice of whether to shoot it and give up film photography or start using kodak.

Can relate to this, have a tray in the fridge full of various rolls of films long past their expiration date.

sailquik said..

Gestalt said..
i think sheddweller you are underselling severne a little. the prototypes were stitched in WA last time i checked and there is certainly more than one pro getting around with hand made sails by ben in WA. sure the average punter like me can't order custom under normal circumstances but the average punter also doesn't want to pay 2.5k for a sail just because it's made in oz.

KA, Andrew doesn't own ka and hasn't for years. still, designers and testers live in Australia so it's got the connection. like all sail brands they have to compete with price so use overseas factories. i'm not across any commercially available sail brand that doesn't.

Amac does still own KA sails Australia. But he licences out the Windsurfing side of it. Most of the design, and much of the testing and development is done in Australia.
There are numerous sailmakers who have built, can build, and probably still build the odd prototype or special order windsurfing sails in Australia.
Building a sail is not Rocket Science, and I personally know of at least half a dozen windsurfers who have successfully had a go at making their own sails. (Advanced design is a LOT more of an art/science!) But the economics of custom or bespoke commercial production locally (and just about probably anywhere else) just don't make much sense anymore, and probably has not since around the late '80's. Production sails are now all made in specialised factories, but many brands still have small design and development lofts in their countries of origin.

Back in the late '80's, a very Talented Kiwi sailor, Chris Torkler, visited us for the Sandy Point Speed Trials and blew us all away with his home made, self designed gear. Sails, boards, boom, fins. About the only bits of he gear he didn't make himself were the mast and the U-Joint, and I recon he could have made a pretty decent mast if he put his mind to it!

hey thx for the clarification.

film rescue develops kodachrome however film processing is another shrinking market unfortunately.

Bring back "Picasso" sails or "Sail Logic"

DarrylG said..
Bring back "Picasso" sails or "Sail Logic"

Yes I had both of those, when sail logic went out of business I had a picasso 4.0, but didn't like it that much. Then I went to Avalon sails, which were a quantum leap forward. I'm still using 4.7 and 5.3 wave sails from around 2006.
Although they don't get out much these days.
Bugs has been much more into moths lately, and his windsurf sails have been put on the back burner. But I have a 4.7 proto speed sail, Fangy has a 7.0 and I think Basil has a 6.0.
If you twist his arm, he'll probably knock one up for you.

sailquik said..

sheddweller said..
yes i didnt quite mean it like that. What i meant was that they are a "design house" rather than a sailmakers.
The sailmakers are the factory they use.
I guess it can be fun for Ben to make custom sails in WA, and for sure good to keep his hand in, and useful to try out something very different to the normal but really its probably not that sensible most of the time, much better to make the protos in the factory that the production will be made in, much better that the sailmakers who will do the run are involved in the protos, much less translation error that way. Design for manufacture.
Not sure Baracoutta or avalon sails are 2.5k are they?

Yes, most windsurfing sails are designed in CAD so it is usually more efficient to have prototype sails sent to the production factory as a digital file to be CNC cut, and sewed there, then sent back for testing and possible tweaks and alterations.

Of course, this again highlights the modern worlds exposure to international express (air freight) shipping, something that has been a serious issue in the last few Pandemic years. Timely and economical container shipping has also suffered greatly. I wonder if the windsurfing market is in for a big shake up as a result?

Could there ever be a revival of local windsurfing gear manufacturing? Some custom board makers have shown they can be quite competitive, but would local sail production only be viable if prices increase substantially? And would that just accelerate the death of the windsurfing market altogether?

It would be great if you could custom order your sails online from proven designs files , add what colour you want, carbon battens, materials etc factory builds them and sends direct to you, designers(company) receives royalty.

decrepit said..

DarrylG said..
Bring back "Picasso" sails or "Sail Logic"

Yes I had both of those, when sail logic went out of business I had a picasso 4.0, but didn't like it that much. Then I went to Avalon sails, which were a quantum leap forward. I'm still using 4.7 and 5.3 wave sails from around 2006.
Although they don't get out much these days.
Bugs has been much more into moths lately, and his windsurf sails have been put on the back burner. But I have a 4.7 proto speed sail, Fangy has a 7.0 and I think Basil has a 6.0.
If you twist his arm, he'll probably knock one up for you.

Both Slowboat and his sister Emily were pretty fast on their WA designed and built Picasso race sails back in those days! I picked up one of their used 6.0's but it didn't perform anywhere near the same for me!!!

choco said..

sailquik said..

sheddweller said..
yes i didnt quite mean it like that. What i meant was that they are a "design house" rather than a sailmakers.
The sailmakers are the factory they use.
I guess it can be fun for Ben to make custom sails in WA, and for sure good to keep his hand in, and useful to try out something very different to the normal but really its probably not that sensible most of the time, much better to make the protos in the factory that the production will be made in, much better that the sailmakers who will do the run are involved in the protos, much less translation error that way. Design for manufacture.
Not sure Baracoutta or avalon sails are 2.5k are they?

Yes, most windsurfing sails are designed in CAD so it is usually more efficient to have prototype sails sent to the production factory as a digital file to be CNC cut, and sewed there, then sent back for testing and possible tweaks and alterations.

Of course, this again highlights the modern worlds exposure to international express (air freight) shipping, something that has been a serious issue in the last few Pandemic years. Timely and economical container shipping has also suffered greatly. I wonder if the windsurfing market is in for a big shake up as a result?

Could there ever be a revival of local windsurfing gear manufacturing? Some custom board makers have shown they can be quite competitive, but would local sail production only be viable if prices increase substantially? And would that just accelerate the death of the windsurfing market altogether?

It would be great if you could custom order your sails online from proven designs files , add what colour you want, carbon battens, materials etc factory builds them and sends direct to you, designers(company) receives royalty.

Unfortunately it just doesn't work that way. The factories demand minimum order quantities as they have to set up each size with templates etc....even with the panels cut by CNC they still have templates for accurate panel fitment before sewing. They have very large minimum order quantities for materials for which they need big lead times to have produced and shipped.They cant afford to have hundreds of rolls of all sorts of materals just lying around hoping a customer may want to use some.Of course they always have some standard materials in stock but for anything hi tech or unique they need to have it made.
Then there is internationalshipping...sending single sails to customers isn't viable.

Ha, ok well maybe its time for a change of tack...
I hear Sri Lanka put out pretty good quality sails.