Global Warming

> 10 years ago
Reply
Register to post, see what you've read, and subscribe to topics.
mkseven
mkseven
QLD
2315 posts
QLD, 2315 posts
5 Oct 2006 8:24pm
Windsurfers arent really environmentally friendly at all, if we were using our gear as transport then yes but in general no. We tend to be a little more environmentally aware and we like clean water and beachs. There really isnt too much difference between a commodore wagon and many 4wd's (apart from the really huge ones)- sometimes I reckon my wagon should be a v8 and i'd probably use less fuel.

Regarding vehicle fuels, hydrogen isnt the answer nor is ethanol. If we can produce green power then electrically powered cars is the way to go. There is little drop in performance, there have been electricity powered sports cars for quite a while and even a dragster or two in america that run 9 seconds or so down the quarter.

Hydrogen has been promoted as a solution as it keeps the oil companies directly in the loop and production results in carbon monoxide. Ethanol is good if used as a pure fuel, yes it produces C02 but it dosent have the nasties associated with it that unleaded fuel has. Adding ethanol to fuel is bad: 1 You will reduce the energy of your fuel and 2 You are combining water and non human/environment friendly chemicals. As said though the resources used in the production of ethanol far outweighs it's usefulness as fuel anyway.

Regarding sea temperature changes, an ideal place to look at whether winds will increase or not is north qld, they have had abnormally high sea temperatures for the last few years this should correlate with an increase/decrease in seabreezes. One thing it is doing is killing the reef. We might well get wind but all our favourite spots will disappear, with the ice caps melting at best our beaches will be washed away.

What can we do, individually very little or rather have very little effect. We need to start picking on government and demanding changes (didnt howard come out a few weeks ago and say there was no such thing as global warming? or was it president shrub?). Industry does far more harm than individuals and cars etc ever will but yes consumers demand industry supplies. Australia should become part of the Kyoto protocol, we should stop coal produced electricity switching to green and nuclear power. Oh and all new houses should be supplied with insulation, solar panel and rain water tanks.
greenleader
greenleader
QLD
5283 posts
QLD, 5283 posts
5 Oct 2006 10:22pm
i reckon it's our duty to burn all the worlds oil recources as fast as possible with big 4wd's so that the alternative energy sources can be implemented faster for the good of the earth.

i'm planting my foot for our future!

(sorry i did grow up in a bevan suburb of brizzy )

Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14968 posts
QLD, 14968 posts
5 Oct 2006 11:04pm
and on sunday greenleader we can all celebrate the next best thing to windsurfing known as BATHURST!!!!!

just sorting out the rope and beer cans as i type
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12885 posts
WA, 12885 posts
5 Oct 2006 10:00pm
Sorry about the Chinese Fusion report, looks like it was all bulls**t

www.newscientist.com/article/mg19225723-100-chinese-reports-of-fusion-wildly-exaggerated/?ignored=irrelevant
racycoot
racycoot
WA
315 posts
WA, 315 posts
6 Oct 2006 8:38am
Did anyone else notice the air pollution in Perth yesterday afternoon/evening?

The air was thick with smog and the sunlight was an eerie yellow.

We're living in our own ****.

Sad to say it but the seabreezes are probably the worst thing for the environment. They blow all our pollution away so we don't have to deal with it and can go on living in ignorance of the mess we're making.
plev
plev
QLD
181 posts
QLD, 181 posts
6 Oct 2006 4:36pm
Anyone read any of Prof. Noam Chomsky? He provides clarification of global events and political manipulations not readily available via the usual commercial media sources & he is now too well known for the Bush2 thugs to touch.
marc
marc
WA
169 posts
WA, 169 posts
6 Oct 2006 4:59pm
well, this is true, the wind make pollution travel a lot.
in hongkong, they have the pollution from the chinese and people
don't want to leave there anymore....
after all, it is just a matter of what people want to have in 50 years. the glaciers in most of the places have been melting in a alarming rate but you can still find people who will tell you this is normal. yes maybe but not to this rate in such little time. i think it is always better to play the safe side. like having insurance. when you have one nothing happend but if you don't, you can only cry ...
racycoot
racycoot
WA
315 posts
WA, 315 posts
8 Oct 2006 10:40am
quote:
Originally posted by plev

Anyone read any of Prof. Noam Chomsky? He provides clarification of global events and political manipulations not readily available via the usual commercial media sources & he is now too well known for the Bush2 thugs to touch.



Got any links? Sounds interesting!
Haircut
Haircut
QLD
6491 posts
QLD, 6491 posts
8 Oct 2006 7:59pm
quote:
Originally posted by racycoot



Sad to say it but the seabreezes are probably the worst thing for the environment. They blow all our pollution away so we don't have to deal with it and can go on living in ignorance of the mess we're making.



your seabreezes are so strong it blows it over to the east coast
plev
plev
QLD
181 posts
QLD, 181 posts
8 Oct 2006 9:52pm
www.chomsky.info
biggrin
biggrin
WA
107 posts
WA, 107 posts
9 Oct 2006 9:46pm
Sometimes we accept theories without objective evidence, I'm no expert in this area, however, if you take the time to listen into the link below (download the mp3 etc), you may realise a significant part of this weather phenomenon is mother nature movin and shakin? Hope this info is of value to you.

BG

http://www.financialsense.com/Experts/roundtable/100105.html
racycoot
racycoot
WA
315 posts
WA, 315 posts
10 Oct 2006 8:45am
That round table holds no credibility at all. The panel was totally stacked and one-sided. Complete and utter propaganda.

I hope it makes you feel better about your irresponsible lifestyle.
NotWal
NotWal
QLD
7436 posts
QLD, 7436 posts
10 Oct 2006 1:17pm
Anyway, It makes no difference whether the environment is being buggered naturally or otherwise - buggered is buggered, and what we do either aggravates or ameliorates it. Sadly the former is undoubtedly the case.
biggrin
biggrin
WA
107 posts
WA, 107 posts
10 Oct 2006 5:59pm
Hey Racycoot, how can you assess ones lifestyle without knowing the person? Do you have any other abuse you wish to disseminate or other emotive comments.
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12885 posts
WA, 12885 posts
10 Oct 2006 6:27pm
I guess the assumption is, that somebody who's denying the obvious (well obvious to some people anyway) has an alterior motive.
biggrin
biggrin
WA
107 posts
WA, 107 posts
10 Oct 2006 8:24pm
I see where you are coming from Decrepit.

Where I'm coming from relates too assumptions, especially about cause and affect. Remember, one of the major environmental assumptions/concerns of the 70s, was the possibility of another ice age on the books. How could they get that so wrong?

I'm not saying the people in the above link are correct however, what I do know is the technology to accurately forecast weather weeks in advance, let alone months is questionable. This makes me question how can global modeling can accurately predict the temperature in 25 years time?

My concern really relates to manipulation of emotions, for ulterior motives, especially where governments think they have a solution to a problem. When did government ever plan and implement something effectively, on a global scale, other than war.

On a personal note, I ride my bike to work most days, are involved in food cooperatives to reduce food packaging, invest in environmentally appropriate companies and I'm trying to bring my kids up to be considerate of others, blah, blah blah. The think globally act locally slogan has a good pitch.

What really gets my goat, and the reason from the diatribe is taxation for ineffective reasons, and unfortunately, the powers that be are slowly moving us toward a global carbon tax, to fix our environmental woes. Will they be taxing for the greater good or just for their own benefit? Any extension of govt control makes me fear for my kid’s future.

So when someone emotively bleats an issue at me I try to take a step back and objectively look at things, if and when the opportunity presents, it surprising what results sometimes.


Fieldie
Fieldie
WA
361 posts
WA, 361 posts
10 Oct 2006 8:49pm
I am proud to be using Gull's new Bio-diesel in my old bus. It runs cleaner and blows no smoke without any power loss. It is available at most of their servos and is cheaper by about 4-5c per litre.
My little bit I suppose, along with vigilant recycling, composting, unnecessary power switched off, purchasing less packaged goods, cycle instead etc, etc...
There are a lot of stupid people out there, so your little bit will hopefully offset their consumerism conditioning.
Manufacturing companies are setting targets of 10% increase in sales per annum based on such ideology - or grand laziness.
greenleader
greenleader
QLD
5283 posts
QLD, 5283 posts
10 Oct 2006 11:08pm
what if we go a few degrees further away from the sun because i've read that we have a problem with heavy metals! surely they must add to the earths weight and send us plumetting to the planet formally known as pluto.
racycoot
racycoot
WA
315 posts
WA, 315 posts
10 Oct 2006 9:16pm
Man, I owe you an apology, biggrin. I'm a bit sensitive about it at the moment because I have been trying to encourage others at my workplace etc to consider how much energy they are using and how much waste they are causing. I'm coming up against a lot of people who just don't care and who will claim that the environment isn't suffering at all - to make themselves feel better. Or the other response is "yeah, the world's gonna end, better live big while I can". I guess I prematurely plonked you in that camp and took my frustration out on you. I'm very sorry.

I really like what you are doing! When my workplace moved closer to my home I started cycling too. The food packaging thing is something I have been thinking a lot about and am making big efforts to buy products with little or no packaging. Can you please post here or PM me to tell me more about your food cooperatives?

Have you seen An Inconvenient Truth? It really had an impact on me and brought together a lot of material that I have been reading of the last few years.

I learnt about all the environmental stuff 15years ago in primary school and it has niggled me for a long time, even though it has not been very public until recently (or I've been windsurfing too much to notice )

The movie revived my passion for the environment and really gave me hope. But we have to work together and each do our part, as you know.

Again, I'm sorry for being rash.
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12885 posts
WA, 12885 posts
10 Oct 2006 9:17pm
quote:
Originally posted by biggrin


Where I'm coming from relates too assumptions, especially about cause and affect. Remember,


Have to agree with you there, just too much of it goes on.
But the fact the Earth is heating up faster than it's done for milenia is bocoming very evident, and the industrial age, greenhouse gasses are the most likely cause.
Given the potential for chaos this could cause, surely we should be worried.

quote:


one of the major environmental assumptions/concerns of the 70s, was the possibility of another ice age on the books. How could they get that so wrong?



If it wasn't for global warming perhaps we would be heading for an ice age. Guess mistakes are part of the human condition, anybody can get it wrong. All we can do is make the best of what we've got.

quote:


This makes me question how can global modeling can accurately predict the temperature in 25 years time?




I don't think it's possible either, weather is a chaotic system.
What I've seen of chaos theory is very interesting, and even more frightning. Systems can flip suddenly from one stable state to another, the worry with global warming is that it wont be a smooth even warming, but could suddenly flip into a whole new patern.

quote:

My concern really relates to manipulation of emotions, for ulterior motives, especially where governments think they have a solution to a problem. When did government ever plan and implement something effectively, on a global scale, other than war.



My worry is that our government isn't interested in fixing the problem at all, (there's too many vested interests involved). They're just comming up with stuff they can put a good spin on.

quote:

On a personal note, I ride my bike to work most days, are involved in food cooperatives to reduce food packaging, invest in environmentally appropriate companies and I'm trying to bring my kids up to be considerate of others, blah, blah blah. The think globally act locally slogan has a good pitch.



If we all had that attitude, on a global basis, there wouldn't be a problem. (As long as we aren't victims of "spin")

quote:

What really gets my goat, and the reason from the diatribe is taxation for ineffective reasons,


Well we certainly get plenty of that, and that's unfortunately the nature of government.

quote:

and unfortunately, the powers that be are slowly moving us toward a global carbon tax, to fix our environmental woes. Will they be taxing for the greater good or just for their own benefit? Any extension of govt control makes me fear for my kid’s future.



It's the lesser of 2 evils here I'm afraid, I'd be more worried about the nature of the world my kids are going to be living in, if we don't do something effective about global warming.

mkseven
mkseven
QLD
2315 posts
QLD, 2315 posts
11 Oct 2006 7:16am
They werent wrong, global warming is the precursor to an ice age. Since the world lives in the now global warming is the issue.

Racy it's good you're thinking about environmental issues, but yes global warming is the buzzword at the moment, yes it is a problem but most of it is beat up media BS.
racycoot
racycoot
WA
315 posts
WA, 315 posts
11 Oct 2006 8:20am
I guess I haven't heard much in the media. I've seen a few good documentaries about the effects of global warming and evidence that the Bush administration adjusts scientific documents to water them down and seed doubt.

As for GW being a buzz word, guess I don't watch enough TV. None of the stuff I've read or watched has been promoting more taxes etc. Also, it would seem that rather than capitalize on it, the governments are sweeping the issue under the carpet. Perhaps the apparent hype is making them reconsider their options...
racycoot
racycoot
WA
315 posts
WA, 315 posts
11 Oct 2006 8:23am
quote:
Originally posted by hobie14t


I don’t even know what I on a personal level can do that will actually make a difference... I guess I could ditch the car and walk or ride the push bike, but that would mean I can’t sail, it would be hypocritical to then drive the car to the water to sail wouldn’t it??



I see it as like "carbon credits": I cycle to work to save mine up for driving to the beach on the windy days.
biggrin
biggrin
WA
107 posts
WA, 107 posts
11 Oct 2006 10:00am
Food cooperatives, well we call it our veggie club, is a concept a good friend of mine introduced me too a couple of years ago.

Canningvale Markets (Bannister Road)are open to the public from 7.30 am on saturdays. My family and others visit about every fortnight, buy in bulk, take it home, and sort it on the front lawn. Pretty basic. We have 4-5 families involved, so the days purchased is divided up into about 4-5 shares, depending who participates for the fortnight. We rotate who visits Canningvale each fortnight, and every one helps with sorting.

The financial benefits are significant. With careful fruit and veg selection, we pay about a third to half the price people pay in supermarkets. More money to repace trashed sails!

What you are accessing is left overs supermarkets etc have not purchased. Left overs result from either oversupply by producers or the food being classed below supermarket quality ( ie slight blemishes through to rotten)so buyer beware. Very rarely do we leave the markets disapointed that the stuff we bought was poor quality. By checking the content of each box we buy - right down to the bottom, yes most food is sold by the carton, we usually find if any surprises are hidden!

So if you know 4-5 households interested in starting a veggie club, I highly recommend it. It is a bit of work each saturday morning, which is pretty tough, especially if you've had a night on the turps however, by sharing the visiting duties to the markets, you can organise to go every month or so.

Whats fantastic is stone fruit season, trays/boxes of plums, peaches, mangoes etc for around $10-20.

Seek and ye shall find.
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
11 Oct 2006 11:26am
quote:
Originally posted by decrepit

I don't think it's possible either, weather is a chaotic system.
What I've seen of chaos theory is very interesting, and even more frightning. Systems can flip suddenly from one stable state to another, the worry with global warming is that it wont be a smooth even warming, but could suddenly flip into a whole new patern.



Hey Decrepit,

Have you read "Chaos" by James Gleick? Fascinating book, goes right through how chaos was initially discovered (some guy trying to predict the weather), the advances made, right through to the state of the art thoughts on how it all works. If you've got an interest in it, this is definitely the book to read.

I agree totally about the flipping from one stable state to another, it's a very scary thought...
Pugwash
Pugwash
WA
7733 posts
WA, 7733 posts
11 Oct 2006 11:39am
quote:
Originally posted by nebbian

I agree totally about the flipping from one stable state to another, it's a very scary thought...



Then there is magnetic pole reversal. I don't want to be around for one of those.
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12885 posts
WA, 12885 posts
11 Oct 2006 12:29pm
quote:
Originally posted by nebbian



Hey Decrepit,

Have you read "Chaos" by James Gleick?



Thanks nebbian, I'll see if the local library has it, be a bit of reading matter for when the wind doesn't blow up in Gero in a few weeks time.
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12885 posts
WA, 12885 posts
18 Oct 2006 11:00am
Ok here's a little something you can do. Go here
7news.com.au/sunrise

and sign the petition, asking the govt to continue the rebate for solar panels.
Looks like Johnny wants to comit us to the fision horror, hope somebody can talk him out of it.
Please Register, or first...
Topics Subscribe Reply