Hi all,

Apologies for resurrecting this thread but after an hour and a half at Ocean Beach (Umina) on Saturday in what was peeeeeerfect conditions I find myself gutted that I didn't master this bastard. Incidentally I was the only person there (other than a lone kiter) which was odd considering how good it was.

It all seems to be about the rig flip. I had 20-25 knots, flat water with a 6.5 which had me with PLENTY of speed into the gybe only to find that when I got to the rig flip and allowed it to flip it didn't do anything. It just sat there in front of me perfectly balanced and of course I'm periously balanced just past 180 degs into the turn so there's not a lot of scope (or time) to go reaching around to manually reef the sail around. Of course by the time I reached out to do it I was either headed for the drink or off the plane.[}:)]

Managed a couple of emergency rig flips that found me still upright but not planing but so what!!

I'm on a 1990 AHD Omega (an old Tom Leudecke design) which doesn't have a great amount of volume at the tail unlike the new designs. I guess I'll need to get forward more. Any other tips/thoughts about carve gybing an older board??

(Yeh I know the best tip is get rid of the board for a newer one )

I suppose also that perhaps a delay in the rig flip will allow the sail to start powering up and happen automatically.


BUGGER

Thanks FS,

I must admit after reading this thread and looking at all the videos, arriving at Ocean Beach knowing that it was going to be as smooth as it looked on the videos I was so OVER confident I figured I'd just go straight to blindfolded lawdown carve gybes. I mean what can go wrong when you're not going to get knocked over by chop!!!

After the first full speed approach where 20 degrees into it my back foot slipped off the leeward rail leaving me with my front foot caught in the straps and my "jewels" sitting snugly on the back foot strap doing the splits I thought,"OK, Guy Cribb didn't mention THIS!!" It's amazing how long you can plane when the jewels are in a vulnerable position

I have a new found respect for those that make it look as easy as simply turning a wheel ... especially in some solid chop (which I WASN'T IN).

Please tell me that the new boards stay on a plane a lot longer these days.

All I have to do now is convince the better half that I will need to get up there again ................ Ocean Beach that is!?

Penski said...

Hi all,

...
It all seems to be about the rig flip. I had 20-25 knots, flat water with a 6.5 which had me with PLENTY of speed into the gybe only to find that when I got to the rig flip and allowed it to flip it didn't do anything. It just sat there in front of me perfectly balanced and of course I'm periously balanced just past 180 degs into the turn...

180 degrees? Well, congratulations, you have already completed the gybe

I think of a gybe as a 90 degree turn with a bearing away bit before it and after it. Mind you I do take up half the beach doing it.

Are you pointing dead down wind when this is happening? If so, the sail will happily sit there perpendicular to the board unless you keep carving to turn the board and thus make the sail flip itself. At this point, you can just release the sail and it will be there at your hands on the other side when you are further into the carving turn.

If you delay it too much, it will backwind and you are going to get wet, or if you are too early the wind will prevent it from moving.

You should have gone down to Sanctuary Point on the Saturday. It was like a carve gybe competition, albeit only close to shore on a starboard tack. There were varying levels of skill and some pretty good laydown gybe examples too! I think there must have been a dozen or so sailors out.

If there was someone with a video camera it could have been quite an educational day.

I think this forum needs a permanent active thread on gybe technique (along with the one on how to get two piece masts apart when they are stuck).

I too have been digesting this thread and went to the river on Saturday in great anticipation of finally completing a gybe. I feel I got closer than ever and actually might have completed a few if the tide hadn't been so low - that grinding sound of fin on sand caused me to jump off quick smart. I did move deeper after that...

I end up pointing in the right direction (180 degrees opposite to my start point) but getting that pesky rig to a place where I can catch it is the trick.
I'll keep following all this good advice and try again next time it is windy.

When i do my PHD, I'm going to do a thesis on the Gybe. It's probably the most discussed and most convoluted / complex move in windsurfing....so many steps in such a short time.

I've been getting better averages with my gybes lately and nailing over 3/4 of them...and, as only a recent gyber for the first time (?) I find that 3 things have helped me immensely.

1. slide front hand along boom to mast. (or as close as possible) whilst planing and hooked in.

2. once initialising the gybe by pushing sail forward, get weight forward (after unhooking and moving back foot across to other side of board of course), both feet should be level, and in line with front straps or just in front of straps.

3. BEND KNEES. This one helps with balance, and allows for any movement the board might do due to chop, or body weight transfer.

And in all honesty, the rig-flip will come later...I wait until the wind nearly pulls it from my back hand, and then just reach (under front arm) underhanded and grab boom as far back as possible to maintain balance...

...Otherwise, you can actually sail clew-first, so why flip the rig at all?

Wet Willy said...

Thanks, this is excellent advice. So, basically when the rig goes light, I should do my footwork and then flip without delay. I've been pausing after the foot change, letting the board cruise around a little more, then sliding my front hand down to the front end of the boom, and flipping too late...

There's an instructor I know who calls this "Carve fascination". You've got a great carve going and you hang out in it for awhile. Unfortunately this gets you to the late flip with power pulling on the sail.

Of course you've got to make sure you have enough speed so that the rig does indeed go light.

why, during the rig flip does your new front hand pass under the current front hand rather than over ?

Hey Bristol are you still talking about windsurfing???

Double entendre to the MAX .... he he he he he he

ANYWAY ..... love all this detail. Seems like there are many variations on timing of the rig flip depending on personal choice so will try them all. It sounds like I still have about 100 crash and burns to go. As long as they are not the "jewels straddled on the back foot strap whilst planing" methode I will be happy.

If anyone wants any pointers to master this just drop me a line

There's a lot of talk about being aggressive into the Gybe so I might incorporate a Lleyton Hewitt "C'MOOOOOOOORRRRN" into my pre-rig flip move. Gotta fire up somehow. I think after awhile you start wondering where you're going to stuff it up.

I think there are now two things to master
1. Convincing my better half that I haven't become obsessed with windsurfing again (which is a lie).
2. That I convince her that I really should look at some newer gear...

As the saying goes, I think I have two changes of succeeding...

Windxtasy said...

why, during the rig flip does your new front hand pass under the current front hand rather than over ?

It stops your elbows knocking together, which gives you lots more control of the rig.

For this to work the new front hand has to grab the boom with an under-grip, while the old front hand has an over-grip.

This also has the effect of forcing your shoulders to lean into the turn, which is a good thing

If there's one tip to help you with your flips, this one is IT!! This tip made me double my success rate

Penski said...

Hey Bristol are you still talking about windsurfing???
Double entendre to the MAX .... he he he he he he

Funny; I never thought of it that way, but I can see that I did leave myself open to misunderstanding; wink, wink, nudge, nudge, know what I mean, know what I mean.

(Apologies to Monty Python)


Cribby also says "go at it, hard and fearlessly". Make of that what you will.

Well a lot of discussion on Gybing. I notice that the word "Foot" was only mentioned about 3 times. There are two distincts gybes. One where the feet change position before or during the sail flip and the other where the sail is flipped and the sailor is planing out of the gybe and then he changes his feet.
If you are in good wind and fairly flat then I think it is best to change the feet after the sail has been flipped. I see a lot of attempts at gybes where the sailor is changing feet and the sail is nearly clew first. I leave the front foot in the footstrap till the sail has been flipped and hopefully I am planing and then a quick foot change. You need fairly constant wind to get it right. If just dogging around in non planing conditions then I change my feet first. Good Luck...about 2000 attempts should see most people get a few.

Wet Willy,
Do you really want to get good at gybing and then be known as........................................
.......................................... Dry Willy ??

Bondalucci said...

Wet Willy,
Do you really want to get good at gybing and then be known as........................................
.......................................... Dry Willy ??

How about "Dry Dicky" instead?