Masts/Rigs all you need to know

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decrepit
decrepit
WA
12886 posts
WA, 12886 posts
5 May 2007 7:39pm
Must be getting old, went right over my head, but now you mention it ---------
Longreef
Longreef
NSW
49 posts
NSW, 49 posts
5 May 2007 10:53pm
Ok fiberspar has been going on about flex response for years. The big advantage with quick response is that you don't have to sheet in and out as much in Gusty conditions. This also translates to more speed and better handling. In overpowered conditions on a super soft mast the sail would not be in it's most efficient shape. It's not designed to be permantly overpowered, You would see permenant diagonal wrinkle and like in boats you are carrying extra drag from extra sail area and more weight and swing moment that makes it fatiguing to sail. There's a really good vid of speed sailing that demonstrates the deformation of the sail underload in slow motion but I forget the the name of it.
Sharky
Sharky
6 posts
6 posts
5 May 2007 9:09pm
quote:
Originally posted by elmo

Sharkyguy

I also have a 510 Finish mast which is high glass content what make is yours?

HI-FLY
NotWal
NotWal
QLD
7436 posts
QLD, 7436 posts
6 May 2007 3:26pm
You can always compare a 30% c mast with a 100%. If the stiffness is the same the only difference is the weight. Lighter = faster reflex.
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12886 posts
WA, 12886 posts
6 May 2007 6:57pm
NotWal,
I'd come to the same conclusion.
What I'm not sure of is how much difference you actually feel in practice.
Sharky
Sharky
6 posts
6 posts
6 May 2007 9:01pm
quote:
Originally posted by NotWal

You can always compare a 30% c mast with a 100%. If the stiffness is the same the only difference is the weight. Lighter = faster reflex.

Actually, there's more than stiffness involved with carbon fiber. Although you may have masts of the same ICMS, you often have different return-to-memory characteristics. Carbon content puts the snap in a mast, so to speak. More carbon also makes for a >>damper<< feel to the mast. In other words the more carbon in a mast the better and quicker it will return to static. Carbon fiber isn't as loose and doesn't wobble before returning to static as much as pure silicon. However, it is rather brittle. Kevlar fiber has a similar effect, but it is extremely damp, soft and strong. It stretches but doesn't break. Basically, you are talking about changing the molecular make-up of the fibers in your material. Epoxy would be your matrix, glass or Silicon would be the fiber in fiberglass. Check out a periodic table and see where Si and Carbon lie. Boron as well has been used in golf club shafts, snow skiis and tennis rackets to some success. It is higher on the periodic chart, but still in the same row.
elmo
elmo
WA
8895 posts
WA, 8895 posts
6 May 2007 9:09pm
Hello Swifty

Oops I mean Sharky
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23695 posts
WA, 23695 posts
6 May 2007 9:20pm
Let us know how you go with your boron masts Cosmicshark.

drjukka
drjukka
QLD
258 posts
QLD, 258 posts
6 May 2007 11:40pm
Sharky,

Linking thing the to the same "row" as the periodic table and then extrapolating to say they are similar is fraught with all sorts of scientific issues. !

In a pure chemical and physical sense elements in the same 'column' of the periodic table "tend" to be more similar. (eg Cl or F and the noble gases are very different) Arguably Si is closer to C in chemical and physical behaviour than B is to C.

All that said - carbon has many unique electronic and related structural properties that have been used to advantage over the centuries.

From a scientific perspective we are talking about 'macro' materials properties and I think we should separaste this from atomic structure issues (and I will duly note the differences between graphite and diamond etc... (one of the reasons why C is special)).

- J


mineral1
mineral1
WA
4564 posts
WA, 4564 posts
6 May 2007 9:45pm
quote:
Originally posted by elmo

Hello Swifty

Oops I mean Sharky



Oh gawwd dayzharvf...view. I thought he had karkt it
Sharky
Sharky
6 posts
6 posts
6 May 2007 10:01pm
drjukka, I mention the periodic chart only to give an idea as to how these things relate scientifically, not to make posting an engineering treatise. It's similar to trying to make sense out of the usual flak, drivel and non-sense that all internet forums attract. One has to recognize who has an educated opinion and who doesn't, ignore the one and pay attention to the other. In this manner you can keep from wasting your time.
elmo
elmo
WA
8895 posts
WA, 8895 posts
6 May 2007 10:07pm
me thinks Mr sharky has been stroking his mast to much trying to make a Cupofjiz
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23695 posts
WA, 23695 posts
6 May 2007 10:08pm
quote:
Originally posted by Sharky

<snip> It's similar to trying to make sense out of the usual flak, drivel and non-sense that all internet forums attract. One has to recognize who has an educated opinion and who doesn't, ignore the one and pay attention to the other. <snip>



Wow. Pot. Kettle. Hmmmmmm. Sharky, surely you are sharkguy, snowyguy, beswift, CupofJoe, Ajoe etc etc as nauseum. A couple of us have asked you that, care to answer?
elmo
elmo
WA
8895 posts
WA, 8895 posts
6 May 2007 10:13pm
Perhaps you ought to consult a psychiatric professional instead of posting like this. I sent you an e-mail invitation in good faith since you had expressed a desire to view my blog. I never claimed that I was >>innocent<<, but I am rather irked that anyone would accuse me of not being that. Futhermore, any message sent privately to you should be kept private, you have not received permission to make it public. I'm here for information regarding windsurfing and nothing more. I am not interested in personal information regarding any body involved in this website except their windsurfing experience. I suggest you and other posters here do the same instead of wasting your time trying to malign others.
Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14968 posts
QLD, 14968 posts
7 May 2007 12:20am
quote:
Originally posted by Sharky

drjukka, I mention the periodic chart only to give an idea as to how these things relate scientifically, not to make posting an engineering treatise. It's similar to trying to make sense out of the usual flak, drivel and non-sense that all internet forums attract. One has to recognize who has an educated opinion and who doesn't, ignore the one and pay attention to the other. In this manner you can keep from wasting your time.



bruce the sharky cup of joe

i looked on the periodic chart and it revealed i have to wait another 6 days before my mast can be stiffened and inserted into my favourite sleeve.

maybe i'll get lucky and the forecast will change and i'll receive a decent blow.

one thing is for sure i'll test the chemistry first.



http://orangecow.org/pythonet/sketches/index.htm
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12886 posts
WA, 12886 posts
6 May 2007 10:23pm
That sounds familiar, where have I heard it before??????
elmo
elmo
WA
8895 posts
WA, 8895 posts
6 May 2007 10:26pm
The simplified version for Brucie

Second Bruce: G'day, Bruce!

First Bruce: Oh, Hello Bruce!

Third Bruce: How are you Bruce?

First Bruce: A bit crook, Bruce.

Second Bruce: Where's Bruce?

First Bruce: He's not 'ere, Bruce.

Third Bruce: Blimey, it's hot in here, Bruce.

First Bruce: Hot enough to boil a monkey's bum!

Second Bruce: That's a strange expression, Bruce.

First Bruce: Well Bruce, I heard the Prime Minister use it. "It's hot enough to boil a monkey's bum in here, your Majesty," he said and she smiled quietly to herself.

Third Bruce: She's a good Sheila Bruce, and not at all stuck up.

Second Bruce: Here! Here's the boss-fellow now! - how are you bruce?

(Enter fourth Bruce with English person, Michael)

Fourth Bruce: 'Ow are you, Bruce?

First Bruce: G'day Bruce!

Fourth Bruce: Bruce.

Second Bruce: Hello Bruce.

Fourth Bruce: Bruce.

Third Bruce: How are you, Bruce?

Fourth Bruce: G'day Bruce.

Fourth Bruce: Gentleman, I'd like to introduce man from Pommeyland who is joinin' us this year in the philosophy department at the University of Walamaloo.

Everybruce: G'day!

Michael: Hello.

Fourth Bruce: Michael Baldwin, Bruce. Michael Baldwin, Bruce. Michael Baldwin, Bruce.

First Bruce: Is your name not Bruce?

Michael: No, it's Michael.

Second Bruce: That's going to cause a little confusion.

Third Bruce: Mind if we call you "Bruce" to keep it clear?

Fourth Bruce: Gentlemen, I think we better start the faculty meeting. Before we start, though, I'd like to ask the padre for a prayer.

First Bruce: Oh Lord, we beseech Thee, Amen!!

Everybruce: Amen!

Fourth Bruce: Crack tubes! (Sound of cans opening) Now I call upon Bruce to officially welcome Mr. Baldwin to the philosophy faculty.

Second Bruce: I'd like to welcome the pommey bastard to God's own Earth, and remind him that we don't like stuck-up sticky-beaks here.

Everybruce: Hear, hear! Well spoken, Bruce!

Fourth Bruce: Bruce here teaches classical philosophy, Bruce there teaches Haegelian philosophy, and Bruce here teaches logical positivism. And is also in charge of the sheep dip.

Third Bruce: What's New-Bruce going to teach?

Fourth Bruce: New-Bruce will be teaching political science, Machiavelli, Bentham, Locke, Hobbes, Sutcliffe, Bradman, Lindwall, Miller, Hassett, and Benaud.

Second Bruce: Those are all cricketers!

Fourth Bruce: Aww, spit!

Third Bruce: Hails of derisive laughter, Bruce!

Everybruce: Australia, Australia, Australia, Australia, we love you amen!

Fourth Bruce:Bruce: Crack tube! (Sound of cans opening) Any questions?

Second Bruce: New-Bruce, are you a ****ter?

Fourth Bruce: Are you a ****ter?

Michael: No!

Fourth Bruce: No. Right, I just want to remind you of the faculty rules: Rule One!

Everybruce: No ****ters!

Fourth Bruce: Rule Two, no member of the faculty is to maltreat the Abbos in any way at all -- if there's anybody watching. Rule Three?

Everybruce: No ****ters!!

Fourth Bruce: Rule Four, now this term, I don't want to catch anybody not drinking. Rule Five,

Everybruce: No ****ters!

Fourth Bruce: Rule Six, there is NO ... Rule Six. Rule Seven,

Everybruce: No ****ters!!

Fourth Bruce: Right, that concludes the readin' of the rules, Bruce.

First Bruce: This here's the wattle, the emblem of our land. You can stick it in a bottle, you can hold it in your hand.

Everybruce: Amen!

(NB: The Album versions continue with the Philosopher's song The TV version continues below....)

First Bruce: Right, let's get some Sheilas.

(An Aborigine bunts in with an enormous tray full of enormous steaks.)

Fourth Bruce: OK.

Second Bruce: Ah, elevenses.

Third Bruce: This should tide us over 'til lunchtime.

Second Bruce: Reckon so, Bruce.

First Bruce: Sydney Nolan! What's that! (points)
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
6 May 2007 10:27pm
quote:
Originally posted by Elmo

Perhaps you ought to consult a psychiatric professional instead of posting like this. I sent you an e-mail invitation in good faith since you had expressed a desire to view my blog. I never claimed that I was >>innocent<<, but I am rather irked that anyone would accuse me of not being that. Futhermore, any message sent privately to you should be kept private, you have not received permission to make it public. I'm here for information regarding windsurfing and nothing more. I am not interested in personal information regarding any body involved in this website except their windsurfing experience. I suggest you and other posters here do the same instead of wasting your time trying to malign others.



Elmo you... identity thief!!
Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14968 posts
QLD, 14968 posts
7 May 2007 12:27am
elmo
elmo
WA
8895 posts
WA, 8895 posts
6 May 2007 10:31pm
I shall no go to bed and ask my wife to spank me very soundly because I've been a very naughty boy.

elmo
elmo
WA
8895 posts
WA, 8895 posts
6 May 2007 10:35pm
Sharky

I read that you got some new foot straps.

Have you attached them under your computer desk yet

You will need to fit the harness lines to the desk top, that way you can really lean into the computer desk. That will make your computer go faster.
Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14968 posts
QLD, 14968 posts
7 May 2007 12:37am
and now for the philosophers song.......

Immanuel Kant was a real piss-ant who was very rarely stable.
Heideggar, Heideggar was a boozy beggar who could think you under the table.
David Hume could out-consume Wilhelm Freidrich Hegel.
And Whittgenstein was a beery swine who was just as sloshed as Schlegel.
There's nothing Nieizsche couldn't teach 'ya 'bout the raising of the wrist.
Socrates, himself, was permanently pissed.
John Stewart Mill, of his own free will, after half a pint of shanty was particularly ill.
Plato, they say, could stick it away, half a crate of whiskey every day!
Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle,
And Hobbes was fond of his Dram.
And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart:
"I drink, therefore I am."
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed.
mineral1
mineral1
WA
4564 posts
WA, 4564 posts
6 May 2007 11:03pm
literates among us well I never
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23695 posts
WA, 23695 posts
8 May 2007 9:05pm


I notice as it is intended for seppos you tried to make it not too hidden

Longreef
Longreef
NSW
49 posts
NSW, 49 posts
11 May 2007 10:48am
And what about flex response?
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12886 posts
WA, 12886 posts
11 May 2007 7:31pm
You mean, is it real, or marketing hype??? And does the average sailor notice any difference????

I don't trust my thought experiments anymore seeing how wrong I was on the last one!!
But it seems to me that flex response can only be due to differences in mast weight/inertia, if the stiffness is constant.

And mast weight itself will have it's own benefits, people may attribute to flex response.

I haven't changed my masts for over 10 years, and that was from ancient fiberglass to 70% carbon. Sure noticed a difference then.
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