Most stable wave sail?

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General Gps & Speed Waves Foiling Gear Reviews Lost & Found WA NSW QLD SA VIC TAS

firiebob

3182 posts

firiebob

WA, 3182 posts

4 Sep 2007 11:18am

"most crew are blown off the water in around 25 knots on a 5.3"

In 25 knots a 6.5 is easy, so a 5.3 would be a walk in the park

But we digress

Gestalt

QLD

14968 posts

Gestalt

QLD, 14968 posts

4 Sep 2007 1:50pm

you guys can't be serious....

to answer jordos question. it is the smallest sail i have. no way am i gonna sit in my car crying because my sail is too big when it's blowin 35-40 knots on the water. i thought i was in for a beating and was totally stunned that the sail was so stable. it was rock solid.

so it has a wind range of 15-40 knots.

superb!!!

all the other crew were on 4. something sails. ain't no one in queensland that has anything smaller than a 4.2 typically. i would have loved to have been on a 3.7 but i ain't got one. so i made do with what i have

my wind meter was reading 32+ knots at the shore and i was comfortable when i hit the water. after 20mins it got stronger and i could only fully sheet the sail in the lulls. still the thing was rock solid! no backhanding, no draft creep nothing. the whole time i was hooked in. when i got home i checked the beacons and it was hitting 40 knots. VP gets within 2-3 knots of banana bank.

in my mind it says more about mr macdougals design abilities than my technique. all of that brand of sails have a massive range.

Notwal was there. he was on a 4.2 fully powered etc. same with 5-6 others. i also didn't stray too far from shore as i was a little concerned with wind/sail size.

last time i sailed in that much wind on a 5.3 ezzy which i should have take nthe 4.2 i got hammered. after every water start i was backwinded into the water. eventuated with a 3km swim after ditching the rig. i then sold all of my ezzy's and got the KA's

what do you guys say to the formula sailors using 10m sails and 70cm fins in 35 knots

1 cup of HTFU please

Gestalt

QLD

14968 posts

Gestalt

QLD, 14968 posts

4 Sep 2007 1:55pm

quote:
Originally posted by Auswind

any sail has pre shape built in to it

The Blades definitely seem to have a fuller draft although it is tuneable

The s1 seems to be a little flatter - but i may be wrong on this

often its where the foil peaks rather than how much that gives a sail its particular ride.

I can say that the S1 has alot more luff curve which- through mast bend and tension - transfers tension to the rest of the sail- So the S1 runs a higher skin tension than the blade. Luff curve is one of the major determinants of a sails feel, yet rarely gets mentioned. Also -use of softer dacron panels near the mast sleeve can deliver a softer feeling to a sail - i have noticed Severne doing this in smaller sizes to get away from that twitchy on off feleing that some small wavesails give in gusty conditions

on the knots issue - 2 kiteboarding knots equals one 1 windsurfing knot.

a 5.3 wavesail in 40 knots - i'm pretty sceptical about that one too.considering that most crew are blown off the water in around 25 knots on a 5.3 there may be some credibility issues here...

maybe, but i don't even rig the 5.3 until it's 25 knots.

nebbian

6277 posts

nebbian

WA, 6277 posts

4 Sep 2007 12:41pm

quote:
Originally posted by Gestalt

so it has a wind range of 15-40 knots. superb!!!

quote:
Originally posted by Gestalt

maybe, but i don't even rig the 5.3 until it's 25 knots.

Hmmm....

Gestalt

QLD

14968 posts

Gestalt

QLD, 14968 posts

4 Sep 2007 3:34pm

well it's no skin off my nose.

whatever it is it is.

mkseven

QLD

2315 posts

mkseven

QLD, 2315 posts

4 Sep 2007 6:47pm

An answer: gestalt's Kult has better high wind than my Kaos cause i'm well overpowered in 40 knots (and we're both the same weight, and I sail more).

The sails with more draft built in here do have an advantage in that they can be over-downhauled and some outhaul yet still remain useable. Shallower draft sideshore sails just flatten out and become unusable.

However no one has touched on masts yet (sdm supposed to be more stable than rdm).

The use of stupidly big sails in se qld is due to flat water locations, senseless taking out such a big sail in the waves.

*plus Gestalt can't sail for more than 10 minutes before needing a smoke, most people can stand being overpowered for that long

REAL

14 posts

REAL

14 posts

4 Sep 2007 5:56pm

Gestalt go sailing instead of talking crap on this forum.

vando

QLD

3419 posts

vando

QLD, 3419 posts

4 Sep 2007 8:07pm

quote:
Originally posted by REAL

Gestalt go sailing instead of talking crap on this forum.

dido

I think he is smoking something stronger than cigs.

Gestalt

QLD

14968 posts

Gestalt

QLD, 14968 posts

4 Sep 2007 9:41pm

quote:
Originally posted by REAL

Gestalt go sailing instead of talking crap on this forum.

beware the troll.

who is the man behind the man named REAL......?

Wineman

NSW

1412 posts

Wineman

NSW, 1412 posts

4 Sep 2007 10:10pm

DAMN

& I was beginning to think that Gestie was the troll

[}:)]

As soon as a thread goes stupid instead of smart(arse), you get that weird feeling...

Haircut

QLD

6491 posts

Haircut

QLD, 6491 posts

4 Sep 2007 10:18pm

i bet toots can manage a 5.3 in a genuine non SE-QLD 40 knots. he's on 6.5's when i'm on 4.5's

not saying i don't believe you gestalt

NotWal

QLD

7436 posts

NotWal

QLD, 7436 posts

4 Sep 2007 10:57pm

Hey Gestalt,

Its gunna blow tomorrow. See you down a VP. I'll be down there 3 or 4pm if I can get away. If it blows like last time I'll let you borrow my 4.7 and I'll stick to the 4.2. Or you could use your 5.3 again tough guy *he he*.

NotWal

QLD

7436 posts

NotWal

QLD, 7436 posts

4 Sep 2007 11:02pm

On second thoughts I might try Manly. Its closer and you have the option of gybing in the smooth water in Rose Bay in a southeaster - good if it gets too torrid.

Haircut

QLD

6491 posts

Haircut

QLD, 6491 posts

4 Sep 2007 11:08pm

regardless of what the bom observations say, it was swinging between s and ssw here on goldcoast today, which is why i thought vp would be the go if it does the same tomorrow?

Gestalt

QLD

14968 posts

Gestalt

QLD, 14968 posts

4 Sep 2007 11:55pm

quote:
Originally posted by NotWal

Hey Gestalt,

Its gunna blow tomorrow. See you down a VP. I'll be down there 3 or 4pm if I can get away. If it blows like last time I'll let you borrow my 4.7 and I'll stick to the 4.2. Or you could use your 5.3 again tough guy *he he*.

hi notwal,

i'll be working mate.

maybe catch the last of it at Golden on saturday arvo
cheers for the lender but it won't be needed.

hehe. I remember that day like it never happened. and i never went out and i never had a 5.3 oh and you and the other crew weren't there either. and my gps track never happened either.

i hope you have another never day again tomorrow.

but in the future i may have some more small sails cause pete has some last season models real cheap.

sigmar

QLD

86 posts

sigmar

QLD, 86 posts

5 Sep 2007 8:46am

re 5.5 Kult in 40 Knt just depends on your own ability and tecnique one uses and the equipment you own . I personally have used a 4.2 kaos where the gust were up to 40knts mind you its hairy .but i only weight light 62kg . where as other guys where out on different gear with smaller sails like 4.1and 4.2 but these guys were definitly heavier than i, and were having problems , having used the Kaos i find that thy have a very good wind range and are very stable sail . and i get these comments re Kaos from other sailors as well. the kult is good as well. Some guy mentioned that the different wind density is a factor as well to consider as the wind in the south is different in strenght to the winds up here in Qld mayby someone can explain that

Bogey

QLD

36 posts

Bogey

QLD, 36 posts

5 Sep 2007 9:30am

Just reading the forum and realised I was sailing that day at the same place in the strongest wind I can remember ( stronger than Green on a good day Bob ) Probably 40 kt and was having a lot of trouble holding down a wave board with a 4m severne wave sail - and there was a guy there having less trouble than me on a 5.3m sail with a speed board. By the way I know almost everyone over-estimates wind speed, but this was really windy. I've sailed Green Island measured 39 knots (49 kt up the tower )and this seemed stronger.
I guess what I'm saying is - he aint bull****ting

Reflex Films

1462 posts

Reflex Films

WA, 1462 posts

5 Sep 2007 10:59am

Lots of Speed sailors use fully cammed (5 or 6 cams) 5.6s , 5.0s and 4.6s in 40 plus - but those are definitely NOT wavesails. And they are being used on super flat water. With super skinny boards.

I am still very sceptical about a 5.3 wavesail in 40 knots - antoine albeau - generally considerd the world's strongest sailor (along with Finian Maynard to be fair) would be flapping on 4.5s and 4.2s in those sort of conditions. Somehow i dont think there is magically someone in QLD that can hold another 1m2 than these guys. Of course you could go out and Survive in these conditions - but it certainly wouldnt be fun.

Gestalt

QLD

14968 posts

Gestalt

QLD, 14968 posts

5 Sep 2007 10:45pm

quote:
Originally posted by Reflex Films

Lots of Speed sailors use fully cammed (5 or 6 cams) 5.6s , 5.0s and 4.6s in 40 plus - but those are definitely NOT wavesails. And they are being used on super flat water. With super skinny boards.

I am still very sceptical about a 5.3 wavesail in 40 knots - antoine albeau - generally considerd the world's strongest sailor (along with Finian Maynard to be fair) would be flapping on 4.5s and 4.2s in those sort of conditions. Somehow i dont think there is magically someone in QLD that can hold another 1m2 than these guys. Of course you could go out and Survive in these conditions - but it certainly wouldnt be fun.

fair enough RF. but i stand behind what i said and i had the best time sailing that day. it was loads of fun.

did you know that a 4.7 kaos was pushed to 40.7 knots on a wave board and fin in 30-40 knots? now clearly i'm not not as good as spotty or going anywhere near as fast as i was only going around the 27 mark but it shows it is more than possible. so believe what you will.

~~http://www.kasail.com/windsurfing/team/craigspotty.html~~

stehsegler

3580 posts

stehsegler

WA, 3580 posts

5 Sep 2007 9:09pm

I think a 5.3 wavesail in 40 knts. is possible in totally flat water with a small board. However, put a bit of chop in there and a wider board and I seriously doubt it's do-able let alone fun.

My guess the conditions where 20-30 knts. with the occasional 40 knt gusts. . I have sailed solid 40 knts. with the occassional 50+ gustsin places like the South of France. The common size sail people use in these conditions are 3.5 or smaller with boards in the 60-70 liter range.

mkseven

QLD

2315 posts

mkseven

QLD, 2315 posts

6 Sep 2007 5:49pm

quote:
Originally posted by Gestalt

quote:
Originally posted by Reflex Films

Lots of Speed sailors use fully cammed (5 or 6 cams) 5.6s , 5.0s and 4.6s in 40 plus - but those are definitely NOT wavesails. And they are being used on super flat water. With super skinny boards.

I am still very sceptical about a 5.3 wavesail in 40 knots - antoine albeau - generally considerd the world's strongest sailor (along with Finian Maynard to be fair) would be flapping on 4.5s and 4.2s in those sort of conditions. Somehow i dont think there is magically someone in QLD that can hold another 1m2 than these guys. Of course you could go out and Survive in these conditions - but it certainly wouldnt be fun.

fair enough RF. but i stand behind what i said and i had the best time sailing that day. it was loads of fun.

did you know that a 4.7 kaos was pushed to 40.7 knots on a wave board and fin in 30-40 knots? now clearly i'm not not as good as spotty or going anywhere near as fast as i was only going around the 27 mark but it shows it is more than possible. so believe what you will.

~~http://www.kasail.com/windsurfing/team/craigspotty.html~~

Spot the contradiction... one a top sailor at one of the best flat water venues in the world using 1/2m less sail, the other is Gestalt

Gestalt

QLD

14968 posts

Gestalt

QLD, 14968 posts

6 Sep 2007 7:01pm

quote:
Originally posted by mkseven

quote:
Originally posted by Gestalt

quote:
Originally posted by Reflex Films

Lots of Speed sailors use fully cammed (5 or 6 cams) 5.6s , 5.0s and 4.6s in 40 plus - but those are definitely NOT wavesails. And they are being used on super flat water. With super skinny boards.

I am still very sceptical about a 5.3 wavesail in 40 knots - antoine albeau - generally considerd the world's strongest sailor (along with Finian Maynard to be fair) would be flapping on 4.5s and 4.2s in those sort of conditions. Somehow i dont think there is magically someone in QLD that can hold another 1m2 than these guys. Of course you could go out and Survive in these conditions - but it certainly wouldnt be fun.

fair enough RF. but i stand behind what i said and i had the best time sailing that day. it was loads of fun.

did you know that a 4.7 kaos was pushed to 40.7 knots on a wave board and fin in 30-40 knots? now clearly i'm not not as good as spotty or going anywhere near as fast as i was only going around the 27 mark but it shows it is more than possible. so believe what you will.

~~http://www.kasail.com/windsurfing/team/craigspotty.html~~

Spot the contradiction... one a top sailor at one of the best flat water venues in the world using 1/2m less sail, the other is Gestalt

i think you mean paradox

Troppo

887 posts

Troppo

WA, 887 posts

6 Sep 2007 5:31pm

i believe you gestalt.

mkseven

QLD

2315 posts

mkseven

QLD, 2315 posts

6 Sep 2007 8:17pm

By jove, you may be right... about something.

NotWal

QLD

7436 posts

NotWal

QLD, 7436 posts

6 Sep 2007 9:14pm

What a bunch of doubting Thomases. I was there. It was like that and Gestalt was doing what he said - sailing ludicrously op'd with a 5.3 in gusts close to 40 knots. Although he didn't look like he was having fun. He nearly tricked me into rigging a 4.7. As to the wind strength, the beacon tells the story.

Gestys not a lightweight though. They don't call him Porky cos he tells lies you know. I on the other hand am a light weight.

I was barely hanging on to my 4.2 in the gusts. So that Kult MUST be well behaved. Part of my problem though is board handling in those conditions. There's no margin for error and when the chop makes you do something you'd rather not it tests your character. It'd be ok if you could sheet in regardless and trust that you can take whatever comes at you. Maybe i'm in need of a better board, or a little HRT. Testosterone might make you kill yourself but it feels great while you're doing it. I should have a word with my gp.

mkseven

QLD

2315 posts

mkseven

QLD, 2315 posts

6 Sep 2007 9:46pm

I'm not saying it's not possible, but there are better ways to be doing things. I can use my weight to hold down stupidly large sails, very easy on beam-broad reach but try to go up or downwind a bit further and it spells trouble for the sail. The other problem arises when it's time to turn around, unless you have arms like arnie it's a bit hard to pull in the sail.

I don't believe the beacons too much especially in a southerly. Yesterday they were gusting to 35 knots, I held onto a 6.2 just but in a real 35knot gust that sail would just flatten me.

crawf

44 posts

crawf

WA, 44 posts

6 Sep 2007 9:52pm

mmmm.. I recall a session I had in some karratha 30+ kt easterlies (30 -35) one summer with ambient temperature 40 + degrees with a 8.5 ezzy infinity and a 160 lt starboard go (they run out of formula boards and I was told they were the same board only with the decking...) it was dead flat water in a sheltered (withnel) bay and was totally in control. some of the unfortunate water starts were not all that glamerous after emergency ditching to avoid the odd turtle.. but perfectly managable once locked in, as something different to do.

perhaps air density and my weight (90+ kg at the time) are points to consider. Now located in the cooler climes this feat may be a bit more difficult. I can certainly use smaller sails in the cooler weather while in the warmer karratha winds larger were required.

the skipper

QLD

90 posts

the skipper

QLD, 90 posts

7 Sep 2007 12:40am

The best thing about reading about big men muscling big sails in big winds with big skills using obscure brands making huge claims is...........That this is the last time we will ever hear about it.

Till the next ridiculous claim.

jord070

1109 posts

jord070

WA, 1109 posts

6 Sep 2007 10:56pm

quote:
Originally posted by the skipper

The best thing about reading about big men muscling big sails in big winds with big skills using obscure brands making huge claims is...........That this is the last time we will ever hear about it.

Till the next ridiculous claim.

if your referring to crawf (my dad) post that one is true, although never sailed there, the wind and humidity level gets bloody hot, and his 160ltr go, was his only good board for a while, he even tryed to sail just before a cat 1 cyclone hit karratha on a old slalom board and a sail like 5.? or somthing stupid like that, that was also the day i was put in charge of looking after this one mans sail, in that wind, and i let it get away, but who would be stupid enouph to trust a 6 year old looking after a sail in over 45 knotts

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