Newby Gybing

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grumplestiltskin
grumplestiltskin
WA
2331 posts
WA, 2331 posts
12 Jun 2007 2:28pm
Hahaha hardly smashed Minto, was only being a devil

besided the googled info only alludes to coffee made directly from coffee beans either filtered or espresso, doesn't really help with the instant coffee dilemma of water or milk first.[}:)][}:)]
mineral1
mineral1
WA
4564 posts
WA, 4564 posts
12 Jun 2007 2:52pm
think this threads all ppppffffttttttt
an I stall cant gybe
Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14968 posts
QLD, 14968 posts
12 Jun 2007 5:18pm
mineral, it's all about the coffee....

ok... try this with you're gybes

1. next time on the water step earlier than you do now. so step when you have turned downwind. make sure you have stepped before you flip the rig and that your step is inline with the boards centreline.

2. or don't step at all. after taking foot out of back strap carve through the gybe and out the other side in switch stance. then keep sailing away. before switching feet to correct side.

3. drink more burnt coffee......

what i reckon,

and i include myself in this.......


most people try and switch feet and sail all at the same time. ends in tears. break it up into smaller parts.

OR NOT>>>>>>>


MintoxGT
MintoxGT
WA
975 posts
WA, 975 posts
12 Jun 2007 3:42pm
Gesty,

I have noticed both of those techniques you described, I feel that the one where you move your back foot forward then flip the sail and start to sail off before making the step appears to be the more common/preffered style, I like it to as it appears to have less components to the whole trick.

Mate I read and read these posts and watch video after video on how this is done, I just need repetative motor skills and muscle memmory to complete this, I hope this is the season most of it comes together.

Hey Mino, I might have to start hitting Luckybay with ya when it really windy so I know it will be at least 18 knts on the river lets get to work on those gybes.

Thanks again Gesty and everyone else.

Cheers GT
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
12 Jun 2007 3:55pm
Hey Mineral1, you're not alone, I spent all of Saturday trying to keep my feet in the same position to do a strap to strap but either:
a) ended up falling off the back of the board with the sail flapping uselessly, or
b) step gybed and slogged out.

The trouble is that it's so long between decent bouts of squashed air, I spend all my time getting back up to the standard I was when it last blew!

Ah well at least I know that my board is watertight again
DL
DL
WA
659 posts
DL DL
WA, 659 posts
12 Jun 2007 3:57pm
I've only been sailing since x-mas this year, so I fall under the "newb" label. However, I can successfully carve gybe fairly regularly (70%?) in flat water. The key, as said above, is to break it down into individual steps. If I try to do everything at once, it guarantees a failed gybe.

These are my steps:

1: Un-hook harness
2: Move front hand as far forwards as it can go
3: Back foot out of strap and step across to the opposite rail to start the carve. Pull up with the front foot that is still in the strap to help the carve.
4: While carving, push the sail forwards and rotate the rig to keep the sail 90 degrees to the wind
5: Switch feet when ready (I switch when heading about dead down wind)
6: Flip rig soon thereafter
7: Look back upwind of yourself and admire the smooth line you drew on the water
Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14968 posts
QLD, 14968 posts
12 Jun 2007 6:05pm
quote:
Originally posted by MintoxGT

Gesty,

I have noticed both of those techniques you described, I feel that the one where you move your back foot forward then flip the sail and start to sail off before making the step appears to be the more common/preffered style, I like it to as it appears to have less components to the whole trick.

Mate I read and read these posts and watch video after video on how this is done, I just need repetative motor skills and muscle memmory to complete this, I hope this is the season most of it comes together.

Hey Mino, I might have to start hitting Luckybay with ya when it really windy so I know it will be at least 18 knts on the river lets get to work on those gybes.

Thanks again Gesty and everyone else.

Cheers GT




ok...

i don't mean to be pedantic but i still don't think all is clear here. or i am confused?

the only difference between a step gybe and a strap to strap is whether the feet switch before or after the rig flip.
everything else is the same. same amount of components etc.

with both gybes you take your back foot out and place it in front of the rear strap over near the rail etc etc etc. as has been written numerous times. knees bent blah blah blah. weight forward etc etc.

all i am saying is just switch (or step rear foot forward) when the carve hits just past downwind. then flip the rig after your feet have switched and you are exiting the gybe.

the vids i linked all contain step gybes. there is no strap to strap gybes shown. the difference with the pros are they tend to time the step and sail flip to perfection.

i have found stepping a little earlier has helped me lots and lots. otherwise i stall, fall back, or spin to windward.

p.s. what i have noticed is that most people doing step gybes don't step early enough. (this includes me) i think a big tip iss to mess with the timing of the step on purpose. see what happens.

ok. rant over.....[}:)]

Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14968 posts
QLD, 14968 posts
12 Jun 2007 6:10pm
right on DL. agree fully.
mineral1
mineral1
WA
4564 posts
WA, 4564 posts
12 Jun 2007 4:26pm
Originally posted by DL

I've only been sailing since x-mas this year, so I fall under the "newb" label. However, I can successfully carve gybe fairly regularly (70%?) in flat water.


Stunned when I read this my confidence went South and I would hope that you actually spent all your waking moments in the water and don’t work to get this far.
If not and you managed to get to here just being a weekend warrior, then that’s it, chuckn the towel in, dummy's out, prams caught in the gutter, an I might as well give it away
DL
DL
WA
659 posts
DL DL
WA, 659 posts
12 Jun 2007 4:39pm
Umm, for the most part of the year, I've been at uni. So yes, pretty much all of my waking hours have been spent on the water :)

Also, I've surfed since year dot, so the actual "balancing on board and carving" bit is pretty easy for me.

Flipping the rig however...

Still, I found that visualising my set of steps is almost as good as actually being on the water and practising it. If you cannot quickly visualise each step when lying peacefully in bed, I'd suggest that it will be near on impossible to remember what to do when doing it in real life. There has been a bit of research into this phenomenon, where they found that practising a musical instrument in your head is almost as good as doing real practice. I think the acrobatic ski jumpers do a lot of this as well.
grumplestiltskin
grumplestiltskin
WA
2331 posts
WA, 2331 posts
12 Jun 2007 5:06pm
Ok, this just has to be said.

DL, if that really your face I can understand why you have so much time to be on the water.





PS: I know its not your face
DL
DL
WA
659 posts
DL DL
WA, 659 posts
12 Jun 2007 5:18pm
You got a problem with my face? I suggest you take it up with my mother. She'll beat you to a pulp.
grumplestiltskin
grumplestiltskin
WA
2331 posts
WA, 2331 posts
12 Jun 2007 5:24pm
quote:
Originally posted by DL

You got a problem with my face? I suggest you take it up with my mother. She'll beat you to a pulp.



LMAO

I am sure your mother is a sweetheart (aren't they all?)
MintoxGT
MintoxGT
WA
975 posts
WA, 975 posts
12 Jun 2007 10:36pm
quote:
Originally posted by Gestalt

quote:
Originally posted by MintoxGT

Gesty,

I have noticed both of those techniques you described, I feel that the one where you move your back foot forward then flip the sail and start to sail off before making the step appears to be the more common/preffered style, I like it to as it appears to have less components to the whole trick.

Mate I read and read these posts and watch video after video on how this is done, I just need repetative motor skills and muscle memmory to complete this, I hope this is the season most of it comes together.

Hey Mino, I might have to start hitting Luckybay with ya when it really windy so I know it will be at least 18 knts on the river lets get to work on those gybes.

Thanks again Gesty and everyone else.

Cheers GT




ok...

i don't mean to be pedantic but i still don't think all is clear here. or i am confused?

the only difference between a step gybe and a strap to strap is whether the feet switch before or after the rig flip.
everything else is the same. same amount of components etc.

with both gybes you take your back foot out and place it in front of the rear strap over near the rail etc etc etc. as has been written numerous times. knees bent blah blah blah. weight forward etc etc.

all i am saying is just switch (or step rear foot forward) when the carve hits just past downwind. then flip the rig after your feet have switched and you are exiting the gybe.

the vids i linked all contain step gybes. there is no strap to strap gybes shown. the difference with the pros are they tend to time the step and sail flip to perfection.

i have found stepping a little earlier has helped me lots and lots. otherwise i stall, fall back, or spin to windward.

p.s. what i have noticed is that most people doing step gybes don't step early enough. (this includes me) i think a big tip iss to mess with the timing of the step on purpose. see what happens.

ok. rant over.....[}:)]





No no not at all,
I am concerned that I can see two different styles of footwork when actally there is one, what you want us to try is when we are about to gybe, move the rear foot forward part a bit earlier to see what the difference is.

Flip the rig earlier hopfully we are positioned well on the board nice and early, sheet in, bare off hang on.

If I make a gybe then have to slug off I will be sceaming sucess! The carve bit will work itself out after that.

Cheers GT

Ok I will give that ago
Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14968 posts
QLD, 14968 posts
13 Jun 2007 11:41am
[quote
No no not at all,
I am concerned that I can see two different styles of footwork when actally there is one, what you want us to try is when we are about to gybe, move the rear foot forward part a bit earlier to see what the difference is.

Flip the rig earlier hopfully we are positioned well on the board nice and early, sheet in, bare off hang on.

If I make a gybe then have to slug off I will be sceaming sucess! The carve bit will work itself out after that.

Cheers GT

Ok I will give that ago


ok first things first. lets forget about the strap to strap and focus on the step gybe. what you wrote above is not quite what i was getting at but we are on track. because now the idea of stepping early is being experimented with. basically the step happens during the carve and before the rig flip. not before the carve. i am suggesting stepping earlier. ie. when your carve has reached the downwind part. this does a couple of things. it helps get you settled for the rig flip by positioning you nice and early and gets your weight forward to keep the board planing. the reason i am suggesting this is because most learners step late even though they think they are stepping early.

some common compliants are :-

dropping off the plane, stalling and or pivoting to windward. these thing are caused by not stepping early enough and not having bent knees.

another complaint is that the mast was in the wrong spot or i fell backwards etc. this can also be caused by stepping late which leaves you stepping while the sail is rotating. which leaves you rushed and unballanced.

the rig flip will sort itself out after that. but should occur as you are exiting the gybe on the broadreach. it all happens fairly quickly though.

by breaking it down into.

1. setup
2. carve
3. step while carving
4. flip while carving
5. exit

it allows you to focus on one thing at a time.

so to visualise.

1. setup....

sail across the wind on a beam reach. stand upright then place rear foot perpendicular to rail on leeward side of board in front of rear strap.

2. carve....

bend at the knees, sheet sail in and rock forward onto the balls of your feet. push your bottom towards leeward rail keep uper body over centreline of board and shoulder parralel to sail.

3. step while carving....

as the board is carving and gets to the downwind direction. "step". move your rear foot forward and place it on the centreline of the board behind the mast base. the board will continue to carve as you do this. (if the board looses it's carve then you placed your foot towards the rail) as you step let go of the boom with your rear sheet hand. keep knees bent and body position compact.


4. flip while carving....

your feet are in the new position and the sail has begun rotating. grab the new side of the boom with your old sheet hand about 30cm from the mast. move the rig forward towards the nos of the board and sheet in with your old back hand. pulling down or hanging off the boom at this point will assist in keeping you planing and also help in overpowered conditions or with big race sails.

5. exit....

as you exit on a broadreach move your body weight back down the board and flatten it out to increase speed. then hook in and you are away.

all sounds to easy. the thing that spoils it is the water and wind strength that constantly change. so adjusting the step timing can help overcome some of these problems.

but i still stack my gybes regularly. reading the conditions is a big part of it. although generally when i stack my gybes it's because i stepped too late. which i still do because sometimes the body ignores the mind.
MintoxGT
MintoxGT
WA
975 posts
WA, 975 posts
13 Jun 2007 10:22am
Hey Gestalt,

You are a very unselfish man and patient to boot, Muchos grazzias

I will print this out then watch a vid to get the whole minds eye understanding, what you are saying is very clear and I understand.

I figure if I have a visual understanding as well, then as you have broken the steps down to 5 parts then I can observe and practice each component in order to fast track my learning, even just stopping the vid at the setup stage to see what and how, followed by step 2 and so on.


Thanks heaps Gesty
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12885 posts
WA, 12885 posts
13 Jun 2007 11:03am
Finally I agree with Gestalt, what he's just described is a "step gybe" because you take a giant step towards the mast!! What I term strap to strap, doesn't involve this step at all, old rear foor just pivots on it's heel and slides straight into new front strap.

Basically your feet need to be where the board needs them to be to stay in trim, if the board is slowing down/wallowing then it needs weight forward. Putting weight on the boom can help with this, but maintaing this pressure while flipping the rig, isn't easy. So that is the reason as gestalt says to take that step forward before flipping the rig, it stops the tail sinking and keeps the whole rig more balanced.
As your gybes improve however, you can try minimising and eventually loosing the step altogether, as long as you're powered up of course.
DL
DL
WA
659 posts
DL DL
WA, 659 posts
13 Jun 2007 11:29am
Pictures here show the difference between step and strap to strap:

www.guycribb.com/userfiles/documents/The%20Twist.pdf

(you need to view this docco in "side by side" format, because the image sequences go across two pages)
MintoxGT
MintoxGT
WA
975 posts
WA, 975 posts
13 Jun 2007 12:04pm
quote:
Originally posted by decrepit

Finally I agree with Gestalt, what he's just described is a "step gybe" because you take a giant step towards the mast!! What I term strap to strap, doesn't involve this step at all, old rear foor just pivots on it's heel and slides straight into new front strap.

Basically your feet need to be where the board needs them to be to stay in trim, if the board is slowing down/wallowing then it needs weight forward. Putting weight on the boom can help with this, but maintaing this pressure while flipping the rig, isn't easy. So that is the reason as gestalt says to take that step forward before flipping the rig, it stops the tail sinking and keeps the whole rig more balanced.
As your gybes improve however, you can try minimising and eventually loosing the step altogether, as long as you're powered up of course.



Thanks to you too Decrepit for your help

Cheers GT
MintoxGT
MintoxGT
WA
975 posts
WA, 975 posts
13 Jun 2007 12:05pm
quote:
Originally posted by DL

Pictures here show the difference between step and strap to strap:

www.guycribb.com/userfiles/documents/The%20Twist.pdf

(you need to view this docco in "side by side" format, because the image sequences go across two pages)



Cheers DL, much appreciated.

Regards GT
Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14968 posts
QLD, 14968 posts
13 Jun 2007 2:25pm
now we have pics....

www.seabreeze.com.au/gallery/gallery.asp?imageid=4774



hi decrepit.

said like a true lightweight. i still gotta step with the strap to strap gybe.

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