Forums > Windsurfing General

Separating mast top from bottom

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Created by jermaldan > 9 months ago, 6 Feb 2012
WindRider
VIC, 787 posts
12 Feb 2012 12:19AM
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Jez looks you forgot to try Adam. He has 100% success rate. Next time when you are at Bonno have chat with Adam.

Mark _australia
WA, 16788 posts
12 Feb 2012 6:24PM
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JV said...

cammd said...

I wouldnt mind betting even if you do get it apart no matter what you do to keep sand and water out it will get stuck again.


Wouldn't you just sand the ferrule down a bit to give a bit more tolerance?


No, because

(1) they are fitted at the factory to be the right clearance. Mine have the same serial number on top and bottom sections (inference is it is a matching pair) and you can see on one where they shaved a bit off the bottom section to make it move "up" a bit for tighter fit.
(2) it will continue to wear and then will be too loose prematurely. That grey mud in the joint after a sail is carbon and water slurry. My 430 is way looser then my 400 as it is used more. They do wear

WindWarrior
NSW, 1004 posts
12 Feb 2012 10:11PM
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I've had a couple of masts in the last decade that were super tight straight out of the bag.
Gave it a quick hit with some 1600 wet and dry.. Never had a problem with it sticking or jamming again.
Over time the do wear, but sometimes when they are brand spanking they are tighter than a fishes ar$e

Never had a jammed mast that couldn't be budged with the two boom method though

jermaldan
VIC, 1572 posts
13 Feb 2012 12:50AM
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OK time to get serious about this stuck mast of mine...

The Mast is at the ZU in Melbourne and there is a Slab in it for anyone that can get it apart (without breaking it).

This is the "King Arthur's sword" of stuck masts, so you get it apart and you will get a slab, and become the unofficial king of mast separation.

Rock up at the Zu and tell them you want to have a go at separating Jez's mast.

Good Luck, might be an easy slab for some one.

Mark _australia
WA, 16788 posts
12 Feb 2012 9:52PM
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So I at least am interested to hear what you have tried apart from a few booms?

jermaldan
VIC, 1572 posts
13 Feb 2012 1:00AM
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Mark _australia said...

So I at least am interested to hear what you have tried apart from a few booms?


- 2 booms
- 3 boom
- 2 booms and a Plumbing tool gripper thing
- Rope with leavers rotating in opposite directions
- 2 - 7 men twisting and shaking (got it apart nearly an inch with brute force)
- Lubricant and most of the above
- tying it to a lam post and yanking
- Whacking on the ground and vibrating and twisting
- Boiling water on top with cold water on bottom

Probably a few more there somewhere that I forgot to mention too..

Mark _australia
WA, 16788 posts
12 Feb 2012 10:59PM
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jermaldan said...

Mark _australia said...

So I at least am interested to hear what you have tried apart from a few booms?


- 2 - 7 men twisting and shaking - Lubricant and most of the above


sounds like something that happens in that other forum

Hmmm pull with the car being only remaining option according to the collective seabreeze wisdom. I can't wait to hear if somebody gets it apart, and how

Mungo
10 posts
13 Feb 2012 12:53AM
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Anyone mentioned the penny method yet?

OK, you guys don't have pennies, but you'll get the idea.

Lay mast across two points protected with beach towels or something so as not to damage it.
Insert coin(s) or feeler guage in the gap between top and bottom.
Sit on mast to bend it.
Turn mast over and repeat on other side.
Use thicker coins/guages as the mast becomes unstuck.

robbo1111
NSW, 468 posts
13 Feb 2012 8:56AM
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last time half of you wise arses tried to help someone Duncan blew his brand new board up, interesting to see the end result here!

grumplestiltskin
WA, 2322 posts
13 Feb 2012 7:21AM
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I might have missed this in the thread, but now it's apart an inch have you tried pushing it back together?
If its sand this would help break up the grains.
I.e push it together then pull it apart,hopefully gaining some ground each time.

jermaldan
VIC, 1572 posts
13 Feb 2012 10:40AM
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grumplestiltskin said...

I might have missed this in the thread, but now it's apart an inch have you tried pushing it back together?
If its sand this would help break up the grains.
I.e push it together then pull it apart,hopefully gaining some ground each time.


We got it apart an inch then back together. we did this 3 times but on the 3rd attempt we could no longer get it to an inch as it got hopelessly stuck at 1cm. we ended up whacking it back together.

No Dice.:(

FormulaNova
NSW, 5883 posts
13 Feb 2012 1:54PM
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robbo1111 said...

last time half of you wise arses tried to help someone Duncan blew his brand new board up, interesting to see the end result here!


I don't think anyone here suggested that he connect it together with a bottle of dry nitrogen... I think that was all his own invention.

Sailhack
VIC, 5000 posts
13 Feb 2012 2:32PM
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Rolling on supported ends (as has been suggested many times) but with a pressure (water) or air compressor in the crack (underneath) maybe? Even better if another body or 2 were there pulling the mast apart gently whilst rotating)...might just free the grit...

And if it works, you can mail the slab to my address.

littlefeet
VIC, 33 posts
13 Feb 2012 3:33PM
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hey Jez... my engineer friend suggests...

"I think the problem might be that the poles have either expanded or contracted depending on the temperature. Resin has a habit of doing this. I suggest he heats up the male pole- this should shrink it a little. And cool down the female pole- this should open it up. I don't know how you do this alternate temperatures while the poles are joined??? "

I think a constant source of heat for a period of time and same with the cold.

Then I would try all those other methods again while the top is warmer and the bottom is cooler...maybe there could be a massive tug-o-war!!

I am crossing my fingers for you!

jermaldan
VIC, 1572 posts
13 Feb 2012 4:21PM
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littlefeet said...

hey Jez... my engineer friend suggests...

"I think the problem might be that the poles have either expanded or contracted depending on the temperature. Resin has a habit of doing this. I suggest he heats up the male pole- this should shrink it a little. And cool down the female pole- this should open it up. I don't know how you do this alternate temperatures while the poles are joined??? "

I think a constant source of heat for a period of time and same with the cold.

Then I would try all those other methods again while the top is warmer and the bottom is cooler...maybe there could be a massive tug-o-war!!

I am crossing my fingers for you!


Funly enough we tried the exact opposite... Thought that heat expands.... and cold contracts. So we cooled the male end (hoping for shrinkage) and heated the female end (hoping for looseness). Tried lube and it made no difference.

JayBee
NSW, 714 posts
13 Feb 2012 4:57PM
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I saw somewhere once that someone (how vague am I?) made a fitting that connected a garden hose to the mast tip. The other end he sealed (after filling with water).
He drove is car over the hose and the water pressure pushed the mast pieces apart.

The mast/hose attachment might be hard to engineer I suppose unless you are good at that kind of thing.

JB

littlefeet
VIC, 33 posts
13 Feb 2012 11:50PM
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Before your last post, I told my engineer friend you had tried boiling water...didn't tell him which end you boiled however....keep in mind he probably has little to no understanding of windsurfing and its accessories, His comments:

"Boiling water should do it if anything's going to happen. Sounds like it's pretty stuck. He might have to cut it off and figure out a way of joining them together. I would get a male and female aluminum piece made that screws together or something. Use vasoline on the threads and bond them into the carbon fibre using Redux glue (aircraft grade glue). Or if he searches the Internet he might find some carbon fibre braided tube that he can glue in on one side- but he might have the same complications as currently experienced. It's a bit hard without seeing it."

Surely that ^ would be the last resort. 12 years ago the only mast I ever had was a one piece. If you absoulutely couldn't get it apart, I would tie a red flag to either end and stick it on the roof racks...a nuisance yes, but it still does the job. think positive jez, it will work out.

Mark _australia
WA, 16788 posts
13 Feb 2012 9:26PM
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Yes, he has no idea about windsurfing masts then! There is no way you'd consider cutting it apart and making your own alloy ferrule!

I still cant believe that three booms per side (ie 6 people), with something to stop slipping between boom and mast like rubber sheet, plus heating the female half a bit, has not done it. Thus I am insanely curious

Sailhack
VIC, 5000 posts
14 Feb 2012 9:55AM
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Mark _australia said...

Yes, he has no idea about windsurfing masts then! There is no way you'd consider cutting it apart and making your own alloy ferrule!

I still cant believe that three booms per side (ie 6 people), with something to stop slipping between boom and mast like rubber sheet, plus heating the female half a bit, has not done it. Thus I am insanely curious


Perhaps jermaldan be having some shifty mates with access to 'adhesives'...me starting to think?

jermaldan
VIC, 1572 posts
14 Feb 2012 10:08AM
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JayBee said...

I saw somewhere once that someone (how vague am I?) made a fitting that connected a garden hose to the mast tip. The other end he sealed (after filling with water).
He drove is car over the hose and the water pressure pushed the mast pieces apart.

The mast/hose attachment might be hard to engineer I suppose unless you are good at that kind of thing.

JB


I would be more worries about the other end of the mast flying through the air and impaling someone.

Thought of using an air compressor and water pressure. Kind of sounds like a jet propelled rocket project....:P

jermaldan
VIC, 1572 posts
14 Feb 2012 10:12AM
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Mark _australia said...

Yes, he has no idea about windsurfing masts then! There is no way you'd consider cutting it apart and making your own alloy ferrule!

I still cant believe that three booms per side (ie 6 people), with something to stop slipping between boom and mast like rubber sheet, plus heating the female half a bit, has not done it. Thus I am insanely curious


Its was 2 on the bottom end and one on the smaller end.

Mark _australia
WA, 16788 posts
14 Feb 2012 7:48AM
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well you haven't really tried ?

When you said 3 booms I thought you meant per side, with 7 blokes but it appears the 7 blokes was only oing it by hand?

jermaldan
VIC, 1572 posts
14 Feb 2012 10:52AM
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Mark _australia said...

well you haven't really tried ?

When you said 3 booms I thought you meant per side, with 7 blokes but it appears the 7 blokes was only oing it by hand?




Yes the 7 blokes were doing it by hand.

BTW we also did the mallot method.

The top cap came off with all the whacking, I am now thinking of getting a 2.5 lenth of dow to put in the top part of the mast and use to whack the bottom part out.

longwinded
WA, 304 posts
14 Feb 2012 7:57AM
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One that hasn't been mentioned yet. Get about 2-3m of rope, preferrably a nice soft rope about 10mm in diameter. Find a nice large diameter pole (I use the coppers logs at the beach carpark about 200mm diameter). Tie off one end to the pole and on the other end tie a clove hitch above the ferrule. Rotate mast so that remaining bight of rope wraps around mast like a winch until the mast is firm up to the post and the contact point between the mast and post is on the wraps of rope to prevent compression. Keep twisting. Rope winch will lock mast into place and allow you to apply force properly. Have never needed the boom for leverage but I am 6'4 and have big hands. Hope this solves your dilemma.

Sailhack
VIC, 5000 posts
14 Feb 2012 12:48PM
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jermaldan said...


I am now thinking of getting a 2.5 lenth of dow to put in the top part of the mast and use to whack the bottom part out.


Not as silly as it sounds...

I 'repaired' the bottom of a skinny mast last year where it snapped/shattered just above the extension using another broken mast as spare parts/ferrule. Because the new section was too wide for the extension, I 'packed' the inside of the mast with glass, leaving the extension (and some plastic wrapping) in to as an internal mould. The glass ran, extension stuck & the only way I could get it out was a long piece of dowel & a hammer, worked a treat.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 5933 posts
14 Feb 2012 1:43PM
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Coal Point last week..


No it didn't work..but it was hilarious to watch! It looked like they were having a tug of war with a solid rope..

jermaldan
VIC, 1572 posts
14 Feb 2012 1:44PM
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The Zu just called me and said that they would replace the mast FOC. They said that its well and truely stuck forever. They will use mine as a demo mast.

I guess the slab goes to them, if not for separating the mast, then for customer service!!! Cheers

BTW appreciate all the input - Its incredible great a body of knowledge this place is.

Stuthepirate
WA, 3054 posts
14 Feb 2012 10:53AM
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It should be used as a travelling sideshow for national events.
I know there would be alot of people willing to try the own unique ways to separate it for a prize.

redsurfbus
304 posts
14 Feb 2012 12:09PM
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Glad its sorted for you.

The hot and cold trick will not work! Heat will just conduct from the female to the male, especially as it is such a tight fit. The consequence then of pouring ice water into the ferrule could mean a deterioration of the fibres as some will be conducting heat - same reason you dont put cold water in a hot glass or vice versa. As parts contract or expand quickly (what is needed) it will cause damage.

I really like the penny idea and will try that myself!

sausage
QLD, 4628 posts
14 Feb 2012 2:22PM
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Stuthepirate said...

It should be used as a travelling sideshow for national events.
I know there would be alot of people willing to try the own unique ways to separate it for a prize.


Excalibur and Arthur comes to mind.

Glad it was sorted out for you too Jez - Kudos to Zu Sports for replacing.



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"Separating mast top from bottom" started by jermaldan