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Speedsail board

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Created by landyacht > 9 months ago, 18 Jun 2008
landyacht
WA, 5797 posts
18 Jun 2008 11:15PM
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Does any body own or know of someone with a speedsail board. I am building one at the mo and need an idea of the axle widths. the photos on the french sites are distorted and its very hard to guage the dimensions on the 2m boards.
Cheers

Ian K
WA, 2962 posts
19 Jun 2008 9:21AM
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Not sure of your question Landyacht. Are you thinking of bolting wheels under a sailboard and going for top speed? I wouldn't think anyone could hook in on something like that, in a decent blow and live to tell the tale? But then again , the French are famous for being crazy. What's the web link?

555
892 posts
19 Jun 2008 9:58AM
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Actually.. surprisingly, they get more stable the faster you go, and hooking in is not as bad as you might think. I reckon I've been pretty close to 60km/hr (whats that... about 30 knotsish I think?) and felt quite stable and safe on my mountainboard rig.

That said.. I'd want to be wearing something more substantial than shorts and a T-shirt if I was aiming to go really fast.. The ground is much harder than water (although at 50 knots it's probably getting a bit close to call!)

At a guess, I'd say that the "axle" equivalent on my board would be around 450mm hub to hub. Mine is only a bit over a metre wheelbase length though, so a 2m board might change things a bit.

The Sandman
7 posts
19 Jun 2008 4:46PM
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I have 500mm axles on a board thats around 1300mm

landyacht
WA, 5797 posts
19 Jun 2008 10:26PM
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Great , getting somewhere. I always thought it would be a stupid thing to do on salt, But I now have a load of sailboard gear on hand plus wheels . the steering is really a variation on a skate board scaled up. After all the landsailing ,its about time I learnt to windsurf and kite.
Plan is to sew a **** load of foam and plastic panels into some overalls just in case .
The speed record is apparently 120kphfor one of these things.
I do wonder if I will be able to keep traction on the smoother salt.
If you google Speedsail it comes straight up

NotWal
QLD, 7076 posts
20 Jun 2008 5:24AM
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landyacht said...


Plan is to sew a **** load of foam and plastic panels into some overalls just in case .
The speed record is apparently 120kphfor one of these things.
I do wonder if I will be able to keep traction on the smoother salt.


Where do you sail Landyacht?

yoyo
WA, 1626 posts
20 Jun 2008 6:37AM
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I thought it wouldn't be difficult to work the track out from photos...



decrepit
WA, 9519 posts
20 Jun 2008 7:40PM
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And we're worried about sailing in shallow water at 30+ kts!!!!
Imagine catapulting on that at a 120km/h!

If Bender can clock 60kts doing a catapult at 30kts how fast do you hit the deck at 120km/h??????

Landyacht, you better be aware of this, when you're in that harness and get catapulted, it's like a slingshot effect, throws you up in the air and then slams you down on the deck.
It's not just plenty of foam I'd be wearing, but a motorcycle racing style neck brace, as well.

elmo
WA, 7966 posts
20 Jun 2008 8:38PM
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decrepit said...

And we're worried about sailing in shallow water at 30+ kts!!!!
Imagine catapulting on that at a 120km/h!

If Bender can clock 60kts doing a catapult at 30kts how fast do you hit the deck at 120km/h??????

Landyacht, you better be aware of this, when you're in that harness and get catapulted, it's like a slingshot effect, throws you up in the air and then slams you down on the deck.
It's not just plenty of foam I'd be wearing, but a motorcycle racing style neck brace, as well.


Full motocross body armour and abrasion resistant clothing as well comes to mind, the water hurts enough, I would estimate that you would probably go quicker, the ground will not be your friend

nebbian
WA, 6192 posts
20 Jun 2008 8:46PM
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Did anyone else notice the size of the guy's eyes behind the visor?

Seems like an exciting way to spend an afternoon

landyacht
WA, 5797 posts
20 Jun 2008 9:54PM
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trying to scare me. Im thinking that a harness wont be getting used . . Its been a long time since I did something stupid by choice. Maybe I could get a scar on my front to match the 6"x10" missing square on my back from a fall on the salt.
the rig I have for it is a 5.2, but have a 4 that hasnt had an opperation yet. I suspect that If I can master it to a degree I would use it mainly on a beach down south.
I reckon I could build a set of plastic armour kind of of stormtrooper deal.
thanks for having a better look at the photos , I think I can work some measurements from the photos . I'd only looked at the photos from the catalogue.

landyacht
WA, 5797 posts
20 Jun 2008 9:58PM
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NotWal said...

Select to expand quote
landyacht said...



Where do you sail Landyacht?
beautiful Lake Lefroy ,WA. probably the biggest and best Landsailing venues in the world. There are days where you can sail for 20kms and not see any other sign of man , let alone another sail

decrepit
WA, 9519 posts
20 Jun 2008 10:25PM
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landyacht said...

trying to scare me.>>>>>>>>>


Not at all, just think you should be aware of the dangers, there's been a couple of windsurfers who've had very bad neck injuries from catapulting in the last 6 months, and they were going slower than your potential, and on water. Mind you they probably didn't hit the water, probably somewhere on the rig.

landyacht
WA, 5797 posts
20 Jun 2008 10:40PM
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The last time I saw one of these speed sails was in France and the guy was sailing along in a breeze to light for us landyachts to sail in . Thats the scenario Im planning for my venture.. I will be as careful as I can be and avoid any decent winds.
A few years previously I met a bloke at Lefroy who turned up with a board to sail with us. He was wearing a singlet and shorts. after a quick sail in a growing breeze we saw him being driven away by his rather lovely girlfriend to the nursing post to get the shredded bits cleaned up.

landyacht
WA, 5797 posts
20 Jun 2008 10:44PM
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decrepit said...

And we're worried about sailing in shallow water at 30+ kts!!!!
, when you're in that harness and................

good job I swapped those harnesses for masts last year

landyacht
WA, 5797 posts
29 Jun 2008 7:44PM
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Did it. I got in a few hours each night and built a board.


2m long, 12"wheels. board is laminated with a top plank of19mm Tas oak with a maranti beam underneath. this was planed in the middle to give back a bit of spring. steering seems to work,probably a bit soft. we trialed it in the street with an Aerotech trainer 2.5. I suspect this may become the regular sail. Keeping in mind this is my first attempt at windsurfing since 1980 I was proud of managing 50m upwind and uphill.@ walking speed. Boom was too low ,being set up for my daughter( who did wear a helmet).

I do believe I have a fair bit of learning to do

Please note , lack of boardies over work trousers

gabeto
2 posts
4 Jul 2008 5:21AM
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CONGRATULATIONS!!!!. I have just bought one yesterday after 22 years of desiring one. I'm waiting for the weekend to fix and test it. Great ideas you had. First by breaking the concept that axes have to be round, then that the wheels have to be centered with the axe. You simplified that too!. Great improvements for the DIYers. Great simplifying concept. I have one question: does your board turn as you wish?, because it looks like the trucks are aligned with the board instead of inclined a bit. Does it work properly?

FletcHuz
VIC, 300 posts
4 Jul 2008 10:33AM
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If anyone want to buy one I've got one I never use (I'm more into freestyle than speed)... Looks alot like the one in YOYO's picture above only it's red... red goes faster.

landyacht
WA, 5797 posts
4 Jul 2008 12:14PM
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gabeto said...

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!. I have just bought one yesterday after 22 years of desiring one. I'm waiting for the weekend to fix and test it. Great ideas you had. First by breaking the concept that axes have to be round, then that the wheels have to be centered with the axe. You simplified that too!. Great improvements for the DIYers. Great simplifying concept. I have one question: does your board turn as you wish?, because it looks like the trucks are aligned with the board instead of inclined a bit. Does it work properly?

It does steer but not in a tight arc . I may have to redesign the the front to make it steeper relative to the board, but I will sail it this weekend and see.
I may then bring it home and cut it up and pay attention when decrepit shakes his head. looking forward to a weekend on the lake. I may even finish sewing a little kite I started last night.
There are some great photos of other boards up on the landyacht construction site most of the others look like better ideas than mine

gabeto
2 posts
4 Jul 2008 10:10PM
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Great!. Hope the tests go smoothly and the wind too!. I have another question: how much does it weight aprox?, because mine feels too heavy (haven't weigthed nor used yet) and I wonder if it will roll!. Comparing with wind carts (the ones you use seated) it is still much lighter and has about the same sail size, so I hope it will work, but for example my wheels are made of iron instead of plastic!!. I'm not sure how much wind I will need. My idea is to use this things when winds are light and you cannot go to the water.

landyacht
WA, 5797 posts
7 Jul 2008 5:36PM
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the board I built got sailed at Widgiemooltha (Lake Lefroy) this weekend and was absolute magic to sail. maybe we might christen it the WIDGIE BOARD.[}:)]
It weighs in at 15 kg and I think you could easily get it down to 10. Test pilot No 2 was our local blokart dealer who is a sailboarder from way back. He got quite good by the end of the weekend , but turninng without getting off the board has yet to be achieved. You need a 4-5m surf sail . the slalom sail we used would end up under a wheel when you bailed. After 2 days of bad sailing ( Ive never windsurfed or skateboarded, today I just hopped on and ripped across a salt pond. (1km) without any problems . It is soooo great to get a buzz from something new. Here is test pilot 2 showing how it was done




Yes the boom was too high and we needed more luff tension. which we corrected next day. water was only a few mm deep and the which is why there are no ripples. . Anybody thinking skim board and kite?
wind was about 7knts. this is on the main lake after an overnight rain. we sailed on a Evaporation pond till the main lake drys out.
After todays sail I will have to think carefully about which toys to get out on the weekend, as this sailboarding thing is getting more interesting by the day

sailquik
VIC, 4735 posts
7 Jul 2008 9:46PM
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Back in the mid '80's my friend Mick and I formed a business to build complete Land Sailors and Kits for supply your own deck. We Registered the name 'Windwheeler' and built about 40 boards and kits altogether. We did this after trying the French 'Speedsail' which was very expensive and had the flaw, in our opinion, of way too Large of a turning circle. Our version was stable enough at speed but would still gybe in a small enough radius to make it practical on our beach at Waratah Bay. We quickly learned to stay well clear of bitumen carparks or airstrips. Waaaaayyy too fast! We also discovered that very light winds on a hard beach were all we needed. 10 knots and a 4.2m sail was plenty. That would easily get us to speeds faster than we could run which meant if things went wrong you still had the option of stepping off and running like hell.
I credit the Windwheeler with my ability to duck gybe. It is so easy to learn on one.
After a couple of years and far too many injuries we sort of lost interest in the whole thing. It was almost always far to windy for safety at Sandy Point. I rather like the idea of sitting in a seat with a seatbelt and a roll bar though.... Those BlowKarts are fun. When I get back home at the end of the week I will find some pictures to post of our Windwheelers.

The Sandman
7 posts
8 Jul 2008 2:25PM
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This is one of my first boards it took me 1 night to put together. I have had it doing 20-23 knts. Currently working on a board that i will hopefuly take to 30+ (this has taken a month or two not 1 night) thing is i want a steering system that wont fail me like the last one did, as it kinda hurts when ur front axle comes off at 17 knts speed. so any help would be greatly appriciated.

decrepit
WA, 9519 posts
8 Jul 2008 6:29PM
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For a longtime I've had a board in my head with rack and pinion type steering, same as a car.
Trouble with conventional skate board set up, is one set of trucks has positive castor the other negative. Positive castor is fine, and these trucks can be set up to be very maneuverable, but the other set has to be very stiff or you get severe speed wobble.
If both sets had positive castor the board could have a much smaller turning circle.
You could also go to a wider wheel base, increasing stability, as only the wheels pivot not the whole axle.

mathew
VIC, 1762 posts
8 Jul 2008 9:34PM
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decrepit said...

For a longtime I've had a board in my head with rack and pinion type steering, same as a car.
Trouble with conventional skate board set up, is one set of trucks has positive castor the other negative. Positive castor is fine, and these trucks can be set up to be very maneuverable, but the other set has to be very stiff or you get severe speed wobble.
If both sets had positive castor the board could have a much smaller turning circle.
You could also go to a wider wheel base, increasing stability, as only the wheels pivot not the whole axle.


Used to have a board with steerable front end similar to a r'n'p - doesn't work as there is not way to safely control the wheel angle while moving.

That said, I have ridden one of the turfdogs - the idea of caster wheels on the front is very interesting as it allows you to use the sail to control the direction - although I'm not sure that I'd want to go real fast on it... bitumen is a little hard to land on.

landyacht
WA, 5797 posts
8 Jul 2008 10:44PM
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The one Im welding in the shed (version 2 ) should be a bit stiffer in the steering and easier to stay on, slighly shorter as the back 300mm of the 2 m board didnt get used . this should give us a bit of steering. the long board did steer and the big 12" wheels meant that we could comfortably sail over the causeways on the salt lake. something that is horrible in a landyacht.
The board will have more flex which should help to alter the pivot angle and give tighter steering when pressed hard.
Things to do ,things to learn, lifes to much fun

555
892 posts
9 Jul 2008 6:28AM
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decrepit said...

For a longtime I've had a board in my head with rack and pinion type steering, same as a car.
Trouble with conventional skate board set up, is one set of trucks has positive castor the other negative. Positive castor is fine, and these trucks can be set up to be very maneuverable, but the other set has to be very stiff or you get severe speed wobble.
If both sets had positive castor the board could have a much smaller turning circle.
You could also go to a wider wheel base, increasing stability, as only the wheels pivot not the whole axle.


Rack and pinion sounds overly complicated.. why not use a con-rod type arrangement with ball joints on the end driven off a central lever lobe? The only reason for rack and pinion on a car is the range of travel, sensitivity (full lock needs to be further away than 1/4 turn of the wheel!) and the forces involved - none of which apply on a landboard.

The board I have uses a combination of this, and the skateboard style turning axle. (check landyacht's parallel thread over in the landyacht forum)

I have found that the speed wobbles are a mental thing - If I think too much about the board, I wobble. If I just relax, and concentrate on the beach ahead, and the sail, no wobble.

grumplestiltskin
WA, 2330 posts
9 Jul 2008 7:19AM
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I think the turfdog style castors are the way to go, BUT, I would put them out on wider axles.
They work on the turfdog cos its aimed at replicating freestyle moves at slow speed.

If you want that real windsurf feeling you need the castoring wheels to allow you to alter direction with the sail.

landyacht
WA, 5797 posts
9 Jul 2008 7:42PM
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The Sandman said...


This is one of my first boards it took me 1 night to put together. I have had it doing 20-23 knts. Currently working on a board that i will hopefuly take to 30+ (this has taken a month or two not 1 night) thing is i want a steering system that wont fail me like the last one did, as it kinda hurts when ur front axle comes off at 17 knts speed. so any help would be greatly appriciated.

Lookslike Im the one who has to do all the painful experiments again.. Im a long way from daring to use a footstrap. The one on my board got taken off last night.
The one thing I seem to be doing differently is using a taller narrow wheel to give me the ability to roll along. The ideal landyacht has a huge narrow wheel that weighs nothing and does'nt create a flywheel effect..
As a landsailor I just went straight to this concept. on some of our tiny yachts weve used those little 4" wheels and the yacht does'nt start to perform until you get rid of them

landyacht
WA, 5797 posts
12 Jul 2008 7:32PM
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decrepit said...

For a longtime I've had a board in my head with rack and pinion type steering, same as a car.
Trouble with conventional skate board set up, is one set of trucks has positive castor the other negative. Positive castor is fine, and these trucks can be set up to be very maneuverable, but the other set has to be very stiff or you get severe speed wobble.
If both sets had positive castor the board could have a much smaller turning circle.
You could also go to a wider wheel base, increasing stability, as only the wheels pivot not the whole axle.
.
We might have to rename you nostradamus , the new board/steering setup was brilliant in front but woeful at the back . at 16kph the wobble started and didnt stop till i jumped off. tonight I will take the rear unit from one board and do an mix and match job. here is version 2

the salt damage to the knees is due to my first fall learning to fly a 3 line kite, but this is a windsurfing forum so I wont say anymore

The Sandman
7 posts
18 Jul 2008 4:13PM
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landyacht said...

The Sandman said...


This is one of my first boards it took me 1 night to put together. I have had it doing 20-23 knts. Currently working on a board that i will hopefuly take to 30+ (this has taken a month or two not 1 night) thing is i want a steering system that wont fail me like the last one did, as it kinda hurts when ur front axle comes off at 17 knts speed. so any help would be greatly appriciated.

Lookslike Im the one who has to do all the painful experiments again.. Im a long way from daring to use a footstrap. The one on my board got taken off last night.
The one thing I seem to be doing differently is using a taller narrow wheel to give me the ability to roll along. The ideal landyacht has a huge narrow wheel that weighs nothing and does'nt create a flywheel effect..
As a landsailor I just went straight to this concept. on some of our tiny yachts weve used those little 4" wheels and the yacht does'nt start to perform until you get rid of them




Yeah the foot stap was ok for a while until i traveled about 20 meters on the front trucks because i couldnt get my foot out of the strap... Ended up in a nearly broken ankle (bad sprain) still, on my new board i have three straps set up same as a windsurfer.



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"Speedsail board" started by landyacht