I think if you like foiling and want to race foil pick an Olympic one design and stick to it- pay more for a one design from Starboard or Bic (possibly for the youth version which will likely be the standard adopted for youth) and you will be supporting the sport. The good thing is that you will simplify the equipment and it will not be an arms race. Encourage others to do the same and then form fleets at local clubs. In this way big fleets will develop. In China they have fleets of 100 RSX competing soon they will do the same in foiling with the iQFoil. It is up to the foilers to get moving. This will provide fleets for racing in Australia for seniors and juniors. A big problem are the outliers who pick "non-one design" as it fragments the racing fleets although there is nothing wrong with foiling in open fleets it is just that it makes the one design battle less intense and with smaller fleets. Maybe a group purchase might even be given a big discount by Starboard for the Australian market to encourage fleet growth.

People like Greg Hyde (Olympian Windglider 1984, 6th LA), Bruce Wylie (Gold Medal 1984 Olympic Demonstrator Windsurfer Class), Bobby Wilmot (Medallist 1984 Windsurfer Class Demonstrator Olympics), Chris Lawrence (Olympian 1988) , Brad Hiles (almost Olympian), Brendan Todd (1996, 8th Atlanta on Mistral One Design), Lars Kleppich (Bronze Medal Lechner Barcelona 1992, Mistral World Champ 1999 and Olympian Sydney 2000 (4th) on Mistral One Design [coached by Brendan Todd] and 6th on Mistral 2004 Athens) and Jessica Crisp (many times Olympian) all emerged from strong one design fleets. It is interesting to note this was largely and predominantly strong one design fleets prior to RSX. The pursuit of slalom racing (now actually in decline) and other pursuits at the expense of fleet course racing and the lack of any significant one design fleet probably provided additional impetus to the decline of Olympic windsurfing in Australia.

RichardG said..

Chris 249 said..
Fastest guys at the LT worlds were about 76-78 kg; the world's #1 ranked RSX sailor was there and won course racing and scored 2nd in slalom and marathon. However, the LT's bid for the Olympics was a tongue in cheek way to get publicity. If it was selected many windsurfers would scream so hard that it would be bad for the sport, IMHO.

Dunno how the $10k IQ Foil will get club fleets like the Laser. A new Laser costs more but the class relies on the vast numbers of cheaper boats out there to get critical mass, and the vast numbers of people who sail it just for club racing and not for speed or for the Olympics. There's not many IQ Foils out there and it could suffer from the same chicken and egg problem as the RSX; you don't get lots of people buying cheap used boards until you get club fleets, but you don't get club fleets until you get lots of people buying cheap used boards. And what sort of club fleets do you get if you can't race in light and fluky winds?

At least the IQ Foil has the advantage that it represents a mainstream branch of windsurfing better than the RSX, and perhaps the IMCO, did.

Even Raceboard class was at a low ebb towards the end of the period when the IMCO was in the Olympics, because the Olympians are soooooo damn good (on the gear they are used to) they are depressing to race against.

Chris, Is the RSX sailor also present and winning at the 2019 Windsurfer Class (LT) worlds, the highly rated Mattia Camboni currently fourth in the RSX Mens Olympics as of Day 1 ?

Yep, but he's now moved up to second overall.

RichardG said..
I think if you like foiling and want to race foil pick an Olympic one design and stick to it- pay more for a one design from Starboard or Bic (possibly for the youth version which will likely be the standard adopted for youth) and you will be supporting the sport. The good thing is that you will simplify the equipment and it will not be an arms race. Encourage others to do the same and then form fleets at local clubs. In this way big fleets will develop. In China they have fleets of 100 RSX competing soon they will do the same in foiling with the iQFoil. It is up to the foilers to get moving. This will provide fleets for racing in Australia for seniors and juniors. A big problem are the outliers who pick "non-one design" as it fragments the racing fleets although there is nothing wrong with foiling in open fleets it is just that it makes the one design battle less intense and with smaller fleets. Maybe a group purchase might even be given a big discount by Starboard for the Australian market to encourage fleet growth.

People like Greg Hyde (Olympian Windglider 1984, 6th LA), Bruce Wylie (Gold Medal 1984 Olympic Demonstrator Windsurfer Class), Bobby Wilmot (Medallist 1984 Windsurfer Class Demonstrator Olympics), Chris Lawrence (Olympian 1988) , Brad Hiles (almost Olympian), Brendan Todd (1996, 8th Atlanta on Mistral One Design), Lars Kleppich (Bronze Medal Lechner Barcelona 1992, Mistral World Champ 1999 and Olympian Sydney 2000 (4th) on Mistral One Design [coached by Brendan Todd] and 6th on Mistral 2004 Athens) and Jessica Crisp (many times Olympian) all emerged from strong one design fleets. It is interesting to note this was largely and predominantly strong one design fleets prior to RSX. The pursuit of slalom racing (now actually in decline) and other pursuits at the expense of fleet course racing and the lack of any significant one design fleet probably provided additional impetus to the decline of Olympic windsurfing in Australia.

So are you saying Mattia Camboni should give up Olympic sailing or the LT and just stick to one.

Agreed, but open fleets are a good source of used equipment, some of the local youth around here are giving foil racing a crack on whatever they can get there hands on. Stifle that entry point and will it help or hinder?

The freeride fleet is an important entry point for racing in my view

The current way foil regatta's in Aus work is an
Open Fleet (Formula Foil)

the IQ gear (One Design) also races in this fleet and has a separate division

Also a freeride fleet that typically does less distance, either less laps or smaller course. I think that set up is the best option for us at this point in time

RichardG said..



No just that there is an issue with racing fleets of windsurfers in Australia. In the absence of a significant one design foiling fleet we will have the same problem we have with RSX. I don't know what the windfoiling optimal fleet will be and what is the best preparation today in this new era but surely one design foiling will be the key to be being the best on Olympic iQFoil. In theory if all foil racing inclined windsurfing sailors move to the iQFoil it will pave the way for the future of Australian Olympic windsurfing. Mattia Camboni is in Europe where he can sail RSX and LT one week and clearly he benefits or enjoys doing so- what his plans will be in the new IQFoil era is not really the subject of this thread but I guess he can race many different foils in Europe in large competitive and significant fleets. China will likely have huge iQFoil fleets in the future so perhaps Australians will need to compete against Chinese as a way ahead to get racing experience.

we won't have the same problem as RSX;
one reason most are happy with the selection of the IQ is that it will be just as good in the Open fleet; like the IMCO where the Mistral guys and girls would sail with us in Raceboard 7.5 and be at the pointy end of the fleet.
Its win/win as both IQ and the Open sailors will have a more competitive fleet to sail in.

RichardG said..

cammd said..
The current way foil regatta's in Aus work is an
Open Fleet (Formula Foil)

the IQ gear One design) also races in this fleet and has a separate division

Also a freeride fleet that typically does less distance, either less laps or smaller course. I think that set up is the best option for us at this point in time

Agreed. Whether that is the best way to develop iQFoil sailors for Olympic campaigns remains to be seen- it might be the best Australia can do but will it be enough to produce a Brendan Todd or a Lars Kleppich? In China they will have fleets of iQFoil and similarly in Europe.

Its probably not the best way, the best way would be like China with huge fleets and massive resources but we don't have that.

I was training a kid on techno last year, he just started racing. He had done a couple of season's in Hong Kong on techno as was ready to give racing a go. I gave him a briefing on the course, drew a map, went through the start procedure and sailed with him both races to ensure he was familiar. The next week he was late to the start and struggled to complete a race, the following week he went to the wrong course and was late again. (went to the etchell's course I had to go and retrieve him)

He was used to the level of support Hong Kong has for kids, they have a coach that tells them when to rig, when to launch, where to go, when to return to shore etc etc and that coach follows them around in a rib that they can rest on, re hydrate and refuel on and get advise and support. That is all funded by government and that is techno level. In Australia its user pays so you need a critical mass of kids with parents paying fees to make that sort of support viable.

The following week Tim (the kid) showed up super early, was the first rigged and first to the start line, good on him he took full responsibility for his racing so I have maximum respect for him and look forward to seeing him again this season but many kids would have thrown in the towel when things get tough. Racing windsurfers is hard to learn and getting kids up to level where they are independant takes a lot of time.

I think I know what the problem is, just don't know the answer

RichardG said..

I think he is in first place now. Reading Dutch press reports: "Top favorite Kiran Badloe has been disqualified from race fifth in the RS:X class at the Olympics. According to the jury, the Dutch windsurfer, who finished second in the race, gave too little space to his Italian competitor Mattia Camboni at the top mark.

He tacked right in his face, I'm not sure how he thought he was going to get away with that... haha. Those RSX aren't particularly quick to get up to speed. Hasn't lost the Gold medal with it though.

Hello All,

(Beware a Little Long Winded )

There is a massive part of the puzzle that you are missing. Formerly the BIC Techno 293 and now made by Tahe Outdoor. The Techno is cheap. Caters to beginners through to top level junior windsurfing. Has multiple sails that can be upgraded to match your age and weight. Techno is the third largest sailing class in the world, behind Optimist and Laser. Techno is the Youth Olympic class for the next two years. A direct feeder into the foiling windsurfing classes

I have been running Rippers Watersports Academy now for 2 years and coaching windsurfing in Sydney for 5 years. I have 30 kids all on Techno 293 and loving the journey that windsurfing has to give them. Plus a growing number of youth Techno 293 kids in Melbourne. All often jump on other gear to try it out.

Grae Morris came through my program, and has now been invited onto the Australian Sailing Team this year. Now giving all the Rippers kids a hero or someone to look up to. We have had three years in a row where we have had representatives from four or more states at the youth nationals. With numbers growing all the time.

I run training all year, 4 times a week on Sydney Harbour during summer. With monthly regattas, state champs and good old fun races. I work in closely with Australian Sailing, Rippers being an accredited "Discover Sailing Centre. As well as myself being fully accredited Australian Sailing Windsurfing instructor and Coach. Plus I have been the Youth development officer for Windsurfing NSW for 5 years.

The kids I introduce to windsurfing, are doing it for fun and exercise. With a parity of boys to girls that is almost 50-50. The kids are building lifelong friendships and getting really fit and strong. Spending less time on the screen or at the shopping mall.

We have built a trust so they know that I as a coach, will always be there for them. When it gets too windy, or when the breeze dies out. Safety to build confidence. I do encourage them to step outside their comfort zone regularly. I help them get organized so that they can care for their gear, for themselves and fellow windsurfers.

Most of All, I have created a pathway that takes these wide eyed kids from beginner to competing on Techno to IQFOIL "if they want it". If they just wanna come hang out and live their best life that is fine too.....I am also available to chat about school and how life is going. I have constant contact with the parents and make sure they are a major part of the journey.

The pathway is clear and attainable to everyone. It is fun, becomes part of their life. We are planning overseas trips to compete at worlds and european championships. I have planned a yearly adventure race in Fiji. We are building alliances with clubs and groups all over the world. This will produce a bunch of good humans, who may become represent Australia at an Olympics in the future.

If you want more info on how to get a Rippers Pathway at your club or learn to build a similar bunch of awesome young athletes, Feel free to contact me.

If you need any conformation on what I do, contact Richie and Lissa at Windsurfing NSW or ask Julien Savina.

SeanAUS120 said..

RichardG said..

I think he is in first place now. Reading Dutch press reports: "Top favorite Kiran Badloe has been disqualified from race fifth in the RS:X class at the Olympics. According to the jury, the Dutch windsurfer, who finished second in the race, gave too little space to his Italian competitor Mattia Camboni at the top mark.

He tacked right in his face, I'm not sure how he thought he was going to get away with that... haha. Those RSX aren't particularly quick to get up to speed. Hasn't lost the Gold medal with it though.

Yes he was in the wrong but with the on water judges they could have red flagged him to do the penalty and continue the race!
He would have dropped some places but would have still being able to use a discard for potential bad result.

I've been watching Windsurfing TV and they had 2 time gold medalist Dorian, former NZ RSX Antonio and Ben talking about all the incidents.
As it turns out its going to be another Gold Medal for Nederlands with former Kiwi Bronze Medalist from Sydney - Coach Aaron credit for 3 Golds.

Further back in the thread NZ has had similar situations with athletes qualifying the board for Olympics but unless a medal chance not sending them and as we all know exceptional results can happen at Olympics with small fleet and form. Its hard enough when for sailing there is only one per county (even if you have other sailors in top 5) and one medal as opposed to other sports. I like the mountain biking where you can qualify up to 3 per country but I cant see Olympic sailing changing.

Big ups for Belly that sounds great program. Racing is the best way to improve your skills and there are some clubs that do well but not enough.

The IQ Foil seems to be gaining popularity and hopefully both Aus & NZ get sailors to Pairs 2024

515 said..

Racing is the best way to improve your skills and there are some clubs that do well but not enough.

Sure, but the reason that there aren't enough clubs doing well is because too many windsurfers are criticising other windsurfers for not volunteering to spend time running beginners classes and races. Too many critics, not enought doers.

Sorry Chris, did the club thing. Put a few hrs and lots of my $ into qualifications. Even became President but maybe it's time to let this horse die. Good luck to all who wish to follow this but having our sport split into 2 is DUMB

Well done Kiran Badloe of the Netherlands ! Matt Wearn of WA/Australia well done too great effort for Gold in the Laser class such a strong class in Australia and coached by Michael Blackburn also coach of Tom Slingsby and Tom Burton completing the hatrick of gold. This speaks volumes...the Laser designed in 1960s...[query why is Windsurfing always changing Olympic gear to suit fashion probably the worst enemy of development of classes-windsurfing has made its bed of nails...well done]. Another gold on the way in 470 men's [1963 design] too. Behind these great sailors are great coaches and good fleets in their countries/regions and loads of volunteers in clubs doing starts, rescues and providing assistance in race management, shore canteens, bar, officers and maintenance. Well done to them too. Kiran shown below on RSX and Windsurfer Class. Matt Wearn shown below being carried aloft by team members in victory celebrations.

AUS 814 said..

RichardG said..
Well done Kiran Badloe of the Netherlands ! Matt Wearn of WA/Australia well done too great effort for Gold in the Laser class such a strong class in Australia and coached by Michael Blackburn also coach of Tom Slingsby and Tom Burton completing the hatrick of gold. This speaks volumes...the Laser designed in 1960s...[query why is Windsurfing always changing Olympic gear to suit fashion probably the worst enemy of development of classes-windsurfing has made its bed of nails...well done]. Another gold on the way in 470 men's [1963 design] too. Behind these great sailors are great coaches and good fleets in their countries/regions and loads of volunteers in clubs doing starts, rescues and providing assistance in race management, shore canteens, bar, officers and maintenance. Well done to them too. Kiran shown below on RSX and Windsurfer Class. Matt Wearn shown below being carried aloft by team members in victory celebrations.

Don't think we have huge 470 fleets is Aus?

I never said that as a fact. In the 2017 470 Nationals there were 10 boats which is 10 more than the RSX 2017 Nationals...just guessing on the latter of course but let me know the status of RSX Nationals as I have never seen an RSX sailing in WA. 470 is more popular than RSX. That said Laser is really popular and was so before it became an Olympic class. Main point above is that gear does not have to be the latest in the Olympics and that there are many volunteers working behind the scenes in clubs for sailing, training and development and ultimately Olympic success.

kato said..
Sorry Chris, did the club thing. Put a few hrs and lots of my $ into qualifications. Even became President but maybe it's time to let this horse die. Good luck to all who wish to follow this but having our sport split into 2 is DUMB

Why is it split in two? We have heaps of youngsters who are part of Royal Queensland and Bayside Sailboard club, race on the weekends and sail for fun every other time. Many love just sailing for fun on their race gear also; slalom and foil. Why is this dumb?

We just trained three new young instructors and are improving our learning and coaching structure. We also have some great initiatives for new and young sailors to come sail together. They are not pushed to race.

Also how is GPS anything like surfing? To me windsurfer LT freestlye, freestlye and wave sailing are the only similarities.