what's that old saying.

just add wind and water?

@pierrec45 - you make some good points there. It is a little bit fragmented in Australia as the racing/competing (yes, I'm including wave guys) population is distributed over many different classes. I don't think this will change anytime soon (or ever) as it mostly relates to what gear the dealers in the local area sell/promote and what classes those *small few* super dedicated (volunteer!) people in their local area who organise/promote events are sailing themselves.

As the coach of Bic/RSX in QLD, I like to promote the aspect of 'pathways' to the younger guys I am coaching. From NSW there is a document floating around with the different pathways available for sailors coming out of Aus, whether they want to race OD in Australia only, or do PWA Freestyle. The roots are always the same in my opinion, it doesn't matter what class you start/compete on in your early development.

My role as coach is to get QLD sailors on the Australian Sailing Team, however that's a very specific pathway that usually goes along the lines of - train on a BIC (as a youth) then on the RSX (with 8.5 youth sail) then again on the RSX (with 9.5 mens sail *if a man*) then on to international competitions and qualification events etc etc. Not everyone is suited to that pathway but going down the Olympic path at some point gives you access to coaching/funding which is not available in any other classes in Australia at the moment. So the skills you can learn there will translate to other classes (I know 2x top Pro PWA wavesailors/freestylers who sailed IMCO for many years).

Probably there needs to be much more incorporation of classes at major windsurfing events. I know the performance differences between the OD classes is quite a large gap, but as long as everyone is aware of that you can just sail the race against the guys on the same gear. In NSW, we are incorporating (with the help of Jessica Crisp) the BIC sailors at the NSW Windsurfing Series events which were traditionally formula/slalom only. I can foresee RSX being included as well down the track when the numbers increase ... it's a start. There is no easy road ...

A Good start would be to put the australian events for the Bic techno and rsx Class on the windsurfing Calender the AWA will not do that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

as i said before why is the master sailing games listed. the bic techno is the chosen youth Board for the youth Olympics so it would come under the AYA so the events cant be listed on awa calender

Or even better still, why doesn't Windsuffering contact Yachting Australia directly?

Yachting Australia
Postal Address is Locked Bag 806, Milsons Point, NSW 2061
Phone (02) 8424 7400 and Fax (02) 9906 2366

are the rsx sailors members of the awa

going by what you say why are the world master games on the calender its not even windsurfing, not run by the storm riders,awa,windsurfing VIC SA NSW WA QLD TAS NT .
STICK to the rules.

windsufering said...

going by what you say why are the world master games on the calender its not even windsurfing, not run by the storm riders,awa,windsurfing VIC SA NSW WA QLD TAS NT .
STICK to the rules.

I believe you will find that early in the year it was believed that windsurfing would be included. Turns out it was not!
There is no conspiracy here, only that in your own mind.

Really weight doesn't matter?
(Not saying Sean is heavy )

what are you saying the awa was going to run it.

i started this thread to see if there was a glimmer of hope for one design racing that i experienced in the early eighties, that was a fun period of my life with regular sunday races at wellington point or margate or humpybong.

before open class wrecked windsurf racing. (a sh!zload more money always wins)

one design obviously needs a focus.

i hope some windsurfing body or company or sailing association can sort it.

Gestalt said...

pierrec45 said...

Really weight doesn't matter?
(Not saying Sean is heavy )

yeah weight has a big impact.

I was kidding about the weight-matters comment, mate.
I was racing 1-D and Div II gear in the 80s, in the mid-weight divisions.

Pierre wrote; "So you have 3 RSXs max practicing by themselves, 2-3 old ODs guys dreaming about the old days, and some Kona guys that like racing but claim they can't compete with some other equipment. Net result: a couple of open races in the year with fewer than 20 racers, most of which are not happy being there..."

Sure, such fragmentation is bad - but the RSX guys are highly unlikely to sail Kona or OD, and the Kona guys haven't been able to buy an OD, and the OD guys may not want to cash up for a Kona. So it's not as if those 15 guys will ever coalesce into just one class. Peoples' tastes are just too different, and their pockets and locations are different too.

The USA dinghy-sailing scene seems to be more manic about everyone in an area just sailing the major local OD class, so they haven't had many significant new classes in eons and just about everyone has to sail a fairly slow old-fashioned boat. That's fine for some of us, but if we straightjacket everyone by forcing them into a single class, we lose many people from the sport.

So while your point is perfectly valid, the hard facts of international dinghy sailing (which is arguably the best comparison to our sport) seem to indicate that fewer classes = far fewer sailors.

Mathew77 said...



Personally I think their should just be one entity promoting sailing, which I think is the same as windsurfing. AWA should be a subsidery of yachting australia that way every one who is interested in promoting the sport has access to the same information and becomes a one stop shop. How easy is that. Then you would just have one calender of events, one insurance etc etc etc.

However all the above may just be too logical which can be such a flaw when being an Engineer........

Logical, but (arguably) wrong. :-)

The AWA is about all windsurfers, from all levels and in all disciplines.

Yachting Australia is mainly about potential Olympic and World Youth competitors, and big boats. The YA gets a vast amount of its funding from the Olympic programme, and therefore a vast amount of its effort goes into the small number of classes that can be 'successful' under the funding criteria. That's 470s, 49ers, women's RSX and Laser, AFAIK.

The vast bulk of the remaining funding comes from big boat sailors and clubs. Each offshore yacht's rating certificate chucks something like $600 into YA coffers. Each big club has thousands of dues-paying members and their races attract thousands of sailors. Even a dinghy class like the Laser can get 300+ sailors at its nationals, and hundreds more just race at their club.

Set against that background, windsurfing just has no power. We are minute in number and in the dividend we provide to the YA. The only thing we can offer is possible Olympic/Youth success, which is why they are so centred on the T293 and RSX.

The YA is no longer really interested in the average competitor. To quote a YA dinghy coach "this whole getting kids on the water is nice touchy-feely stuff, but it's not what the YA is about". They don't care about numbers, or classes that don't feed the Games.

Without our own association, we would be forced to dance only to the YA tune. Disciplines like wave, Formula, slalom, freeride and WOD (ie the popular disciplines) would receive no support because they are not seen as Olympic pathways, in the same way as very popular dinghy classes like Sabres get no support (and actually have to fight the YA to keep their promising youth in the class).

Ask the Hobie class about how having one calendar works. There is continual fighting between the Hobies (who want their Youth to race at their own Youth nationals, which normally take place just before the open Hobie nats at the same location) and the YA, which wants the Hobie Youth nationals to take place on a modified boat in a different location - therefore forcing many Hobie families to travel to two different titles in two different states.

And do we want one insurance policy? One Sydney big-boat club has suffered about 9 fatalities over the past 11 years. Who wants to be in an insurance pool with clubs exposed to that level of potential loss???

To see the workings of the YA/AWA relationship, I invite you to come to an AWA meeting and then go to observe (you can't speak up) at a YA meeting.....the different priorities will amaze you.

After all, it's not logical to come to conclusions without doing the research! :-)

Sailquik, the Raceboard class is still active. Dobroyd in Sydney and Illawarra YC in Sydney both probably have 30+ in total, with 10-20 out on race days. There's also smaller groups in Cronulla, Melbourne, Lacapede Bay (SA) and a scattering in other areas.

The class now has a 9.5m limit, but lighter sailors are very competitive with 8.5s.

As far as boards do, the situation is good. The new boards are very competitive with the best of the old boards, but the old boards are still fully capable of winning. There's only one Exocet Warp X 380 around but it's shown a lot of potential. There are a bunch of Starboard Phantoms around and going well. Those who are possibly the top 4 sailors in NSW would be using the following gear;

IMCO with second-hand 8.5 (from a Prodigy hybrid)
Phantom with 8.5 Barracouta
Pan Am with 7.5????
Mistral Equipe Mk 1 (like the IMCO but slightly lighter) with Pryde sail and an alloy mast.

Clearly, skill is what makes the difference rather than gear, but those who like new boards can now buy some very competitive kit. There are some very old boards still winning.