That's a pretty big step from 130 to 85. Im only 78 kilos and find anything under 90 litres feels small- mind you i'm not the best sailor... I reckon 100 litres would be a great steep- for either flatwater speed sailing or waves. My wave board is 99 litre, and my flatwater board 110. They feel comfortable to me in anything up to 25 knots. Over that I get hammered.

Small board, a bit under powered, you need to keep your weight forward until it's up and planning,especially if there's not much area/thickness in the tail.

I watched a Tushingham demo video a while ago and the 2 riders were both putting their front foot in front of the mast when water starting. I've only used this technique on my small speed board a couple of times, seemed to help.

Maybe you could have used a bigger sail? You need a bit more grunt to get a sinky board planning, there's also more strain on your arms as there is more drag from the board while it's bogged down.

I'm 70kg and used an 80l board today, about 1400 this was the right size board, a smaller one would have been a struggle for me. But around 1600 when the wind had lifted a fair bit I could have been on a 65/70l without a problem. So if you were trying early in the day, the wind would have been too light, but late arvo it should have been possible.

I don't think the learning curve is too steep, but you need to be in optimum conditions, wind too light you'll bog, too strong, you'll also struggle.
Probably 18kts to 25kts, with a 6.0 to 5.5 sail, and not too small a fin.

Please buy a dictionary, get the spelling sorted and the windsurfing will take care of it's self.

Keep pushing yourself, I found it accelerated the learning curve for me. Yes it's hard but you learn quickly where you must put your weight to keep everything trimmed and the board floating. If it's windy enough it won't matter how small the board is you'll be able to ride it, Just everything happens a whole lot quicker on small boards....It feels like they are alive and wild. If you have forward momentum the board will stay afloat but you really need the board tracking straight by forcing it with your feet as they are easily pushed sideways. Everything on your small board is the same as your big board it just must happen much quicker then before. Water starting is the same, plaining is the same...if you are in a lull just make sure you are over the centre of the board with one foot in front of the mast base and one behind. As you power up move back, Then hook in and step into the straps and away you go.

My 2 cents.

I recently borrowed a 80 lit board in 20+ conditions with a 6m sail. I usually sail a 110lit board. JH is right, every thing happens faster, but if you get it right, the rewards are there.

Mast foot pressure. Get low, hang below the boom Bear away off the wind or downwind until you get planning.

Keep persisting.

brave lad
equipment versus technique ....
at 1.6 times the weight of sailor in kg - excellent beginning - here 80* 1.6 ~ 130 liters
next step down is usually 1.3 times the kg --> 80 * 1.3 = 105 liters
and technique starts there already
and so - 80 kg on 85 liter - hope the sail is lite , the wind stays and you develop technique
you encourage us all :-)

Chris 249 said..

Carlos said..

Please buy a dictionary, get the spelling sorted and the windsurfing will take care of it's self.

Carlos, please buy a book on punctuation and take note that there is no apostrophe when "its" is used as a possessive pronoun. The apostrophe is only used when "it's" is used as a contraction for "it is".

Normally I don't give lessons on grammar, but since your post was so snarky I couldn't help myself. :-)

Maybe Carlos meant to say "itself"? Good grammar is the difference between knowing your **** and knowing you're ****.

When you first go from a big board to a small one, it makes it much easier to only use it on quite windy days, say 22 to 25 knots plus, and about a five to 5.5 metre sail.
The technique is a bit different to a floaty board and the higher wind speed will let you get planing with minimal technique, so you can then sort things out without pulling your arms out of your sockets.
The technique wont come in a day or two so be prepared to put in the time and effort.
Once you get a small board sorted you will be impressed at how nimble they are and how smooth they slice through the chop.
Also, you will eventually be surprised at how small a board you can kick up onto the plane with relatively light wind, (18 knots), but without technique, it's nigh on impossible unless there is sufficient wind to use just brute force..
I didn't always have such long arms.
My arms got this long practising on short boards.
Keep at it.

mort69 said..

About 25 kn,5m sail definitely enough power,is a submerged start possible,my starts tend to be on the upwind side,and then I have to work it down to get going obviously this is a bot harder starting under water,I've also got my foot forward of the mast so the board is pretty well balanced with the nose slightly up, I'm loosing balance waiting for forward movement

Agreed an experienced rider would get that going, but you may have been better off with a slightly bigger sail. I'm 70kgs and was using a 5.3 yesterday, a 5.5 may have got you going as long as you weren't too overpowered with it.

Sounds like you are putting too much weight on the board too early.
No matter how small the board you should never sink it, that's just putting too much strain on everything.
When the big guys water start a tiny speed board, they body drag until there is enough speed to put weight on the board. But you have a lot more floatation than that.

Also helps to point downwind slightly, don't go too far down wind, that will see you flying around the front!

I normally water start with my back foot in the strap, and kick with my front foot. That allows me great board control and part of my weight is supported by my front foot kicking, this allows you to get the sail up higher into the wind,
then when I've picked up enough speed then my weight goes on the rig, then the board.
But don't be surprised if you don't get on with this technique, not many people do.

mort69 said..

Haha grammar police policed,that's just bad manners .any way I got the 85 l going a couple of times today,a bit slow and wobbly to start but definitely planning.nice and light feel,now I'm guessing all the turning needs to be pretty efficient to stay up right.is it common to have the board sink if your turns arnt perfect or the wind is a bit gusty.cheers for the positive feedback,helps with motivation.

Congratulations, you're well on the way. Good low wind and high wind gear should see you in the water in most conditions, but mid range may not be ideal.
Yep, gybing is much more critical, board will sink if you loose too much speed, same goes for lulls. And tacking is only for the experts.

mort69, I reckon one of the most useful tips given to me (ever) is mast foot pressure. This means keeping the weight transferred through the rig to the mast foot. When you are transitioning the natural tendency is to let the weight go through your feet. It's easier once you are in the harness but those first few seconds on a low volume board really require you to think about making the forces go through the rig onto the mast foot, this will help a great deal in getting the board to plan. Once you are planning, being able to apply MFP (mast foot pressure) helps in all manner of ways. I try and think of it as hanging off the boom and trying to unweight my feet.

mort69 said..

Tried an 85l board today ,I'm a touch over 80 and I've been learning on a130l board,I can beach and deep start on the 130 but had an epic fail on the 85,I know its probably a bit early and the boards a bit small but what's the easiest way to get going,as you probably guest the board is bogging down,is it a case of perseverance or is the curve to steepcheers

I take it that the issue was that when you beach started the front of the board turned into wind, the board sank and you couldn't get moving ?

In which case I doubt more wind, a bigger sail or a stiffer fin would do anything to assist in get going. It will just make everything fail faster.


This is hard to explain but when you step onto the board you have to be light with your feet and try to apply your weight down the mast into the board,. Heavy feet sink the back of the board and it turns into wind.

Weight down the mast doesn't mean swinging off the boom, but force through the boom and down the length of the mast. The sail doesn't pull you up, you must step up.

Start knee deep, put backfoot just behind front footstraps in the middle of the board, 'push' down the mast via the boom and step up as vertically as you can with your back leg. Put front foot on board touching mast base.

You will then accelerate much slower than on a 130 ltr board. The first 5 knots goes into floating you, not moving you.


Practice a few times knee deep, back foot on board, front foot on bottom and push down the mast. The front of the board moves away. Put more weight on back foot and it comes back.

decrepit said...

mort69 said..

About 25 kn,5m sail definitely enough power,is a submerged start possible,my starts tend to be on the upwind side,and then I have to work it down to get going obviously this is a bot harder starting under water,I've also got my foot forward of the mast so the board is pretty well balanced with the nose slightly up, I'm loosing balance waiting for forward movement

Agreed an experienced rider would get that going, but you may have been better off with a slightly bigger sail. I'm 70kgs and was using a 5.3 yesterday, a 5.5 may have got you going as long as you weren't too overpowered with it.

Sounds like you are putting too much weight on the board too early.
No matter how small the board you should never sink it, that's just putting too much strain on everything.
When the big guys water start a tiny speed board, they body drag until there is enough speed to put weight on the board. But you have a lot more floatation than that.

Also helps to point downwind slightly, don't go too far down wind, that will see you flying around the front!

I normally water start with my back foot in the strap, and kick with my front foot. That allows me great board control and part of my weight is supported by my front foot kicking, this allows you to get the sail up higher into the wind,
then when I've picked up enough speed then my weight goes on the rig, then the board.
But don't be surprised if you don't get on with this technique, not many people do.

Given I had my first sail in 15 years yesterday, but found waterstarting at 85kgs on a 93ltr board was much like riding a bike, I'd have to disagree with getting the back foot up first. Spose it depends how powered up you are... certainly in lighter wind putting your whole front leg (up to the back of your knee) provides more balance around the mast and keeps a smaller board square to the wind. Back foot first will weigh down the @rse end, bogging you down and pointing you windward where there's no power.

Persist with the smaller board is my opinion, though 85ltrs is a bit small for your weight. I've been surfing all my life and I learned on a 6ft board. It made me progress quickly and I struggle to understand why noobs in surfing always start on a mini-mal. IMO you can jump on a small board and still learn and progress. The whole 'big board for learners' is not always true. If you persist and have reasonable balance/coordination you can learn on anything. Persistence is the key. Keep going with what you've got. You'll figure it out and when you do you'll never look back. Sailing is a rich man's spirt, so adding more boards to your quiver is wasting fubds. Let your family buy their own gear if the want to learn. Selfish perhaps, but do you're own thing and enjoy.

The max size is just a general guide to go by.
For example if ya board is a 95ltr and says this: Recomended sail size 4.5m-7m.
This means the board can be "made" to work within this sail range and still feel acceptible. You can in theory use any sail, 3m to 9m perhaps, but they will feel like garbage and be almost impossible to control

If ya split 4.5 and 7 down the middle, u get 5.7m. That is the size that will feel the best for this particular board, its all subjective though. You can + or - 0.5m roughly for individual tastes, weight, conditions, fin size, tides, currents,wind strength,skills, and the list goes on