OK an executive decision has been made, and the Gaastra Vapour will go to the most improved Vmax from those who have posted a session with a 5 x 10 sec average.

The fastest 5 x 10 sec avegrage posted from may till July 31, will be the starting point. The end point will be Nov 30, and the fastest 5 x 10sec from Aug 1st till Nov 30. The difference between these times will be calculated as a percentage, and the person with the greatest percentage improvement from 31st of July to the 30th of November gets the Gaastra Vapour 6.0m!!

This is a way to recognise those that have competed, which is some of the feedback from the other dicussion.

Tell me what you think?

Thanks for posting this idea hardie.

We really wanted to recognise the guys who get in and sail and post. Because the reality of speed sailing is the more you sail the faster you go!!

Wow I never thought about the fact that you could just lend your GPS to someone else. But whats their incentive is the slow guy going to share the sail with fast guy? It's up wo all team members to make sure that others don't cheat that is why two or more team members are supoosed to be present at a session.

quote:

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Originally posted by nebbian

The only problem I have with this, is that now there's an incentive to cheat.

I don't know how to get around this, we might have to request tracks but then people could lend their GPS to a fast friend... or get a tow behind a speedboat or something...

Hmmmm...

Ideas?

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There is a large element of honesty involved in GPS speedsailing, regardless of whether prizes are involved.

If there are sailors out there willing to defraud themselves and their peers then they have to live with what they've done at the end of the day.

My personal integrity is worth far more to me than the cost of a new sail....hopefully others share this view?

i don't see why all the prizes aren't lucky draw.? then it's working for all.

The interesting thing here is that it's a comp for teams but the prizes can really only be won by individuals yet of course we want to reward people for acheivement but not have the prize go to the Pro-sailor who might already have some form of sponsorship etc with another company. This has happened to us before with Wave comps where the prize ends up on Seabreeze for sale the very next day. That is why we wanted to give it to the most improved, not the fastest. I believe there should be some out of the hat prizes and some performance based prizes. I am still struglling to work out how we reward the winning team but we might come up with a perpetual trophy or something.

quote:

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Originally posted by Gybesports

The interesting thing here is that it's a comp for teams but the prizes can really only be won by individuals yet of course we want to reward people for acheivement but not have the prize go to the Pro-sailor who might already have some form of sponsorship etc with another company. This has happened to us before with Wave comps where the prize ends up on Seabreeze for sale the very next day. That is why we wanted to give it to the most improved, not the fastest. I believe there should be some out of the hat prizes and some performance based prizes. I am still struglling to work out how we reward the winning team but we might come up with a perpetual trophy or something.

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Yes agree, Kato is building a Trophy for the comp, which will be perpetual.

"........the sailors with the lest experience and gear, will have the best chance to improve"

Not at all firiebob.

The Pit guys had not had a decent SWer before July 30. They will have before November for sure. Might as well send the sail over there now 'cause once they put their snowboards away it will be over.

Random draw may be fairer (though there is a chance that the winner may be sponsored by another brand).

quote:

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Originally posted by yoyo

"........the sailors with the lest experience and gear, will have the best chance to improve"

Not at all firiebob.

The Pit guys had not had a decent SWer before July 30. They will have before November for sure. Might as well send the sail over there now 'cause once they put their snowboards away it will be over.

Random draw may be fairer (though there is a chance that the winner may be sponsored by another brand).

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Let's hope that Firiebob is right, because it would be unfair for a sponsored sailor to win the sail.

Just a little math.

If the top 5 x 10 done by pit crew is 38kt or one of our gun competitorsin this comp, and they were to get a 43kt which is possible, that is still a smaller perecntage increase than one of our amateurs going from a 20kt 5 x 10 to 25 kt 5 x 10. So it should give the amateurs a better chance?

quote:

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Originally posted by hardie


...because it would be unfair for a sponsored sailor to win the sail.

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Unfair, why

That's what sponsored sailors do, compete and win stuff...

Sure, it seems a bit funny that sailor sponsored by brand X wins a sail from brand Y, and sells it on... But that's life...

Perhaps there should be more rules such as non-sponsored sailors only. I don't believe this is the case, as sailors signed up under the terms at the time. The original rule said "enter by X date to be eligible". I thought this included the sail and mast kindly offered by Gybesports as well

This is MEANT to be FUN. What do all these rules and regulations mean for the FUN of the competition Can FUN be regulated out of a competition

Here's a tongue in cheek alternative to the current rules for removal of FUN (yes, I am at work and...):

1. This competition is for non-sponsored* sailors only. Sponsored sailors can enter speeds/times, but are not eligible for the trophy, the prizes or the glory.

2. Each sailor must enter speeds/times from each month (regardless of conditions, health, injury etc etc**), or they will be disqualified from the competition.

3. Sailors using only approved*** gear may compete. Use of non-approved gear will result in speeds/times being ineligible to enter. A second speed/time posting with non-approved gear will result in the team being dismissed from the competition.

4. All sailors must compete in approved attire only. Persons wearing board shorts over wetsuits will be disqualified from the competition immediately.

5. All people with the named Mike, Michael or Micheal are ineligible to enter this competition.

* Sailors who are deemed sponsored is entirely at the discretion of the event organisers and event sponsor.

** etc etc can include anything at the event organisers discretion. Sailors may be aloud to continue in the event at the event organisers discretion if a doctors certificate is provided.

*** All sailors must register each piece of equipment with the event organisers and event sponsor. Gear that is deemed inappropriate will not be allowed to compete.

Yes good points pugster, though never did I say that sponsored sailors would be inelligible, coz they are elligible to win it. It is more morally unfair that someone who gets given top race/speed sails for free or at cost, wins, when someone who may never afford to buy a top line sail wouldn't have a chance. And I made the point that the amateur probably has a greater chance of winning.

The rules stick.

I think the issue you have bought up which has merit, is about the expectations around "just entering" gave people a chance of winning as the prizes would be drawn at random. We seemed to have a lot of people complaining with the board, that many people hadn't even bothered to post a session, and it seemed unfair that they be included. So we thought why not try something for those that have bothered to post a session. But technically a case could be made for drawing the sail out of the hat? What do people want? And remember it is impossible for me to make everyone happy, whatever position I seem to take someone complains?

Hardie, I think the idea of giving a prize to the most improved sailor is a fantastic idea, keep the faith and make an executive call. I note the sponsor supported this idea also, so if the sponsor and the chief organizer agree that should be good enough for the rest of us!!

I think this category introduces a personal performance aspect to what is otherwise a teams-oriented event. It provides incentive for sailors to get on the water and post some sessions, and try to max out their PB's. Also, as you rightly pointed out, the beginning speed sailors starting from a low base have the best chance to win because they are more likely to achieve large increases in performance, than the guns who are already posting high speeds.

Stick with the original idea, and don't let a few whingeing spoilsports deter you.

Ok just to make sure everybody understands the prizes are given without any particular expectation or involvment only that the suggestion that somebody should be rewarded for improvement was made because it seems like a good idea. Not because we want to leverage the comp for our own purposes other than to get some exposure for the brands T1 and Gaastra -(gratuitous plug). I am dissapointed with anybody who has registered and not posted just to win the prizes. I think for all those who are competing it is mighty unfair not to compete. But it's not my comp this is just my own personal moral opinion.

Hardie my personal belief is that a most improved prise should be given but it's up to you! Sorry to put you in it!!!

Hi Hardie what about a panel of judges, one from each state.
vote on a list of names that have been narrowed down.
ta vando

Lucky draw. "MOST IMPROVED" would only work if all teams had the same wind conditions for the 'before' and 'after' times. Someone who has had poor winds till now, and strong winds later in the year would improve heaps simply because of the weather, nothing to do with improving ability.
Thats my 2c worth!

Well there's a fair few legitimate points about not doing it as proposed and going back to the lucky draw? I'm still open, to ideas. But what I'm hearing is fairness is impt, and haven't got a system that everyone thinks is fair, other than the lucky draw?

Maybe next year if people still want it, we decide before hand how to distribute prizes, if any are on offer? Hopefully sponsor/s think they get their money's worth? We'll have to get some feedback from David at Gybesports whether the sponsorship was a good investment for him?