Stretchy said..
moving your weight back IS the objective, but not indefinitely.

Moving the weight back is important, but also quite tricky. A few years ago, we sailed with a fast PWA slalom sailor, and he said that we needed to get more oriented towards the back. Unfortunately, he did not give any detailed tips on how to do that, and moving foot straps is just part of the equation.

It finally clicked for my wife earlier this year. After being stuck with top speeds below 32 knots in the US for years, something clicked, and she got 4 knots faster . She beat not only my top speed in the same conditions (despite being shorter and lighter), but also her top speed from our trip to Australia, where the water was a lot flatter. She ended up being several knots faster in every session towards the end of this year's winter trip to Texas. She said that the key for getting faster was a stance adjustment - from hiking out to the side to a stance that's more hiked out diagonally to the back. Another part was anticipating the gusts, and turning downwind more before the gusts hit, so that the gusts could be turned into speed, instead of lifting her up (which used to be an issue).
The only gear adjustments were that her foot straps were tighter than before, so that the feet could not move at all. That was partly possible because we stopped sharing gear (i.e. she got my speed board all the time ).

For getting faster, two things that seem to matter are how ideal the conditions are, and how much you are willing to crash and break. If you're in perfect conditions like Lake George, Mandurah Bay, or Albany, or you don't mind big catapults and breaking things, than reaching 35+ knots can be quite quick. But if you have to deal with some chop and are more cautious, then it's a bit of an iterative process, where you need to get more comfortable with your gear and the speed before you can adjust gear and stance to "unlock the next level". With limited experience, it can be very hard to know what kind of adjustment may make the gear work better, or even to judge the effect of adjustments. I only started to understand the "flying over the chop" part, and how moving straps backwards and outward helps, during the last couple of weeks.

i dabble a bit on speed sailing.

i'm nowhere near the level of the experts here, but i've gone thru a couple of cycles of tweaking my kit and technique and doing so have managed to clock some half-respectable numbers for the spots where i ride, so i'll happily share my observations and experiences - particularly as to the approach that worked for me when i got started, and how i go about trying to improve season after season.

thedoor said..
2nd season speedsailing.

Is my understanding of the impact of various changes below accurate?

Assumptions: flying on the edge is just the right amount of lift that you don't tail walk.
Question: He mentions control at the 9min mark and it seems to be the opposite of lift

Mast base forward = less lift
Boom lower = less lift
Harness lines longer = less lift
More outhaul = less lift
Move straps forwards = less lift

According to Jordy, downhaul is a bit tricky cause less downhaul equals less lift but also less mast foot pressure which will increase lift

Theres a lot of variables there, any suggestion on which to focus on first?

i haven't watched the Jordy video, so i may be missing some context, but what you summarise above is a set of general guidelines of the effect of certain tweaks, but not a roadmap for how achieve the feeling you want. for me the key to going fast is have my kit balanced and comfortable - but also "fast", and by that i mean biased to the settings that provide more (rather than less) lift. when my kit is like that, i can have the confidence to push for speed in the mostly choppy locations where i ride.

i assume you're mostly starting "from scratch" in speed (going from your comment of "2nd season" and your waveriding avatar), so i'd suggest you should first establish a baseline of settings, and what i found to be critical with that was board setup, so focus on the board first.

you mention you've only had a couple of sessions on your race sails. so i'd say downhaul them to the visual marker (do AC1s have that?) or absent that, exact spec (using the extension marker at the side of the sail); use outhaul in the "neutral" zone (if you sail with adjustable outhaul keep yourself to a small range of movement); and set your booms around collarbone-to-adam's apple height (when you're on the board). rig your sails exactly the same way - this way you'll get used to their feel and power delivery and won't have confounding sail issues while you sort out the board.

for sorting out the board, in my experience i find these to be the three key aspects, in order of importance:

1) the width of the stance
2) the back foot position relative to the fin, and
3) the mast foot position

for the latter:

decrepit said..
Ideally you want the centre of effort of the sail in between the foot straps, if it is behind the centre, it will try to pull you backwards, lifting the front foot.

so i'd suggest you start at dead centre of the track and leave it there until you get the first two sorted. if you find the sail's COE too far back, drop your boom height a tad (you'll rake the rig back less this way).

with the first two, the ultimate objective is to work your way toward the back to the extent your conditions allow and your skill increases; but i wouldn't recommend you start there and then dial down, particularly if you ride in the San Francisco Bay (not exactly flat water paradise) unless you have a high tolerance for high-speed crashes and gear repair.

as noted here, it's not just the straps that are at play:

boardsurfr said..

.moving foot straps is just part of the equation.

.the key for getting faster was a stance adjustment - from hiking out to the side to a stance that's more hiked out diagonally to the back.

in order to be able to do that, the width of the stance is pretty critical, which is why it is number one on my list of things to get dialled.

if you already have a solid baseline from which you're working, my apologies for going over ground you've already sorted out. however, if you're still trying to feel your way toward a baseline, i'd be happy to share general guidelines for stance width and back foot position.

speed on!

thedoor said..
Side question: What do you do to end your run if you don't have the balls to try and gybe. Usually I unhook and head upwind until I can drop my butt in the water and stop. Not ideal and takes quite a bit of energy.

i don't generally gybe at the end of a broad run. if i want to turn around, i square up to the wind, re-establish cross-wind control (stance adjustment from speed run), and do a normal gybe. it's easier to get a good alpha from semi-square to semi-square as opposed to from broad to tight.

if sailing in a broad expanse of open water and want to "kill" a run to later try another in the same tack, i round up quickly and take the back foot off the strap (i likely also unhook in the process) as if i'm going to tack. but i don't. i start to look at my speed watch. i have my "speed genie" set to like 5kts, so i have to slow practically to a stop to start seeing results, which effectively kills the run.

and yes, if you can't stand touching bottom, avoid getting in the water as that does use up a lot of energy.

Alex, thanks for the interest.

cad184 said..

Hello, it would be interesting if You could give us some recommendations about stance and back foot position. I also struggle to get my speed up on my slalom boards, I can go up to 30 kts in choppy conditions (don?t have flat water at my local spots) but want more...

stance:
the idea is to figure out your optimal stance width (a range) for GPS speed. i won't get into absolute numbers, as this distance can vary greatly driven by sailor height and proportion, but will share my general guidelines. for starters, my GPS stance is narrower than for other disciplines (like bump & jump or especially waveriding). the wider the stance the more control you have over the board, but the narrower the stance, at least for me within my range, the faster i can be. perhaps it is that with a narrower stance i can be more upright and thus hike out and back more without my front foot coming off the strap as i go over the back of the swells on a speed run.

over time i've figured out the optimal range for my size and conditions. within my range, "easy" sails and/or smoother water have me toward the narrow end; more physical sails and/or rougher water have me toward the wider end. and while i can't do much about the water conditions, i may try to tweak my sails to allow me to sail "narrow".

back foot position:
where your back foot is relative to the fin determines how sensitive the fin is to your inputs for generating lift, and for an average-sized sailor, this can be the "anchor point" for the stance. as you are experienced with your kit already, you likely already have a good sense for where to place your back foot to give you really good fin feel, but you're welcome to re-evaluate placement. in that case, a good spot may be aligning the rearmost part of your foot with the leading edge of the fin and then experiment with getting some overlap (going back). in my experience, G10 fins and/or rougher water tend to limit how much overlap one can get; flatter water and/or carbon fins allow going back a bit further.


so in practical terms for you, if you wish to experiment with this approach, set your back foot "anchor" to a point you're not getting lifted in the gusts or spinning out and start narrowing your stance (move front strap back). you may need to do your normal mast foot position adjustments and sail tweaks in this process. with your optimal stance range figured out, you can then try moving everything back (front and back by the same amount, maintaining the stance width) until you run out of control or inserts.

chances are very good that (except for the mast foot position when you're dealing with much larger sails), your positions will be nearly identical from one board to the other. changing my sail quiver, or getting different fins leads me to recalibrate. but if i change boards, or have to test or help dial a board, i copy my strap setting to the new hull and i go into it >90% dialled. in fact, i've consistently broken 30kts on my first time out on a different board doing so.


one final point that merits mention (as i've seen this with friends) is the front strap fit. i've seen a number of people go for a much wider stance than necessary to try to regain the board control they've given up by having a poorly fitting front strap (too loose, not deep enough, etc.). what works for me is to have the strap be very snug from side to side so i don't slip out when the board flies over the chop on the fin or i'm hiking out and back, but open enough at the top that i can easily go deep enough to curl my toes (to help induce that flight) and lift my heel going into a gybe.

hope this is helpful.

I just came across this in a FB memory and thought I'd show it. I'm 5ft 5 and wanted a narrower stance on my 50 litre Isonic.
With some advice we added extension plates so I could move the straps back.
I don't get to use the 50 litre much but it works well.
I tried it on my 2008 89ltre Fanatic falcon but it wasn't as successful. Maybe there was more force as I was using a 7m sail but I found the front of the plate bent up from the pull on yhe front foot. Maybe you could fix this with a different metal or thickness.
Both boards are older models. I don't know if modern boards would need this?
I'm having trouble uploading the photo on my mobile. I'll post it later.

maybe a format problem Sue, is it a jpg? This one of me at Broken head went in no worries. (it's a bit deceptive I'm riding a clean face on a wave behind the one in the foreground)

Good session on 7.1 and small board (62cm) Thursday. Although I am still having that too light pressure on my front foot on starboard tack even after lowering boom. I am basically on beam reach when it happens below



PS: I was on 32cm fin and was spinning out more than usualy but only when trying to point

Yeah

This happened too


www.instagram.com/p/Ce728QqlKOj/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

thedoor said..
Yeah

This happened too


www.instagram.com/p/Ce728QqlKOj/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Lucky you went backwards and didn't hit the gear..

My best guess is the chop looks smaller than it does in the video because thats what wide angle lenses do, flatten everything out.
If the set up seems ok everywhere else then maybe its going over the chop causing the problem.
Photo 1 looks good, photo 2 hit chop and possibly bent front leg to absorb chop but thats taken the weight off the front foot. Photo 3 landed after chop hop with no weight on front foot, more weight on back foot and lent back a bit and front foot slips out.

thedoor said..
Good session on 7.1 and small board (62cm) Thursday. Although I am still having that too light pressure on my front foot on starboard tack even after lowering boom. I am basically on beam reach when it happens below

PS: I was on 32cm fin and was spinning out more than usualy but only when trying to point

Oh wow ... sheer luck on my side, but I never had the front foot coming out like that!!!!

It is hard to tell because of the wide angle lens but I agree with decrepit that the sail seems a bit upright. What strikes me, however, and it might be the lens, is the position of the body. It seems so very in the back and it looks like your upper body is (over) rotated toward the direction of motion, the shoulders in particular almost perpendicular to the longitudinal axis of the board?

I might be doing all wrong, or not pushing enough, but the feeling I look for on my slalom is to be "suspended" over the board. Almost no weight differential between the feet, I do not "load" the fin, and I move my hips back to reduce the board surface ... but I am not breaking much above 30, so it might just be that I am freeride sailing

Inspiring anyway (and crazy conditions for speed runs on the other video). I have been mostly bump&jump sailing with 3.7-4.2 since early May (at Crissy) and forecast is again 20-25 with gusts to 30 knots for the next week, but it might be time to go back to some speed runs instead!

thedoor said..
Good tips thanks

I just moved the front straps back one hole and it made things better regarding the front foot coming out so I will try more forward mast foot. Does that mean I shoulder raise the boom?

Board and straps are near brand new, so its probably not that. Insert placement could be a thing but my guess is its probably more skill and set up variables.

In the last couple of days the wind has been down a bit and got to finally work on my AV Modena 88. I almost succeeded in reproducing your light front foot ... but by going the opposite direction

I moved the rear strap all the way back, which is very far back on the AV. All the rest the same. Result was a quite strikingly less longitudinally stable board, and a front foot that did not come out of the strap, but felt very light and added to the feeling of the board being prone to rise up. I put the rear strap back in the middle position (photo below) and everything got back under control.

This is with a ACX 6.0, Tectonics Phoenix 33, very overpowered at my 70 Kg. I am waiting for a Phoenix 31 and when I get the new fin I will try again to move the straps and if the board still feel flighty maybe the mast 2 cm forward. But anyway, that will be a different story ... for me, and as I noticed before, all other things being equal, bringing back the rear foot makes the front foot feel lighter.

thedoor said..

duzzi said..

thedoor said..
Good tips thanks

I just moved the front straps back one hole and it made things better regarding the front foot coming out so I will try more forward mast foot. Does that mean I shoulder raise the boom?
Board and straps are near brand new, so its probably not that. Insert placement could be a thing but myguess is its probably more skill and set up variables.

In the last couple of days the wind has been down a bit and got to finally work on my AV Modena 88. I almost succeeded in reproducing your light front foot ... but by going the opposite direction

I moved the rear strap all the way back, which is very far back on the AV. All the rest the same. Result was a quite strikingly less longitudinally stable board, and a front foot that did not come out of the strap, but felt very light and added to the feeling of the board being prone to rise up. I put the rear strap back in the middle position (photo below) and everything got back under control.

This is with a ACX 6.0, Tectonics Phoenix 33, very overpowered at my 70 Kg. I am waiting for a Phoenix 31 and when I get the new fin I will try again to move the

OK Good to know

Currently I have the back strap pretty "low" so it looks like it is in the very front and very back hole. If moving my mast base forward does not do anything I will consider moving that strap to the front holes in the back

Is you front foot strap also set this wide? Do you have a particularly wide foot? If not, then this may be contributing to the looseness of your foot in the strap?

thedoor said..

Not as wide in the front but quite loose...
My foot has a high arch but is not wide.

WindFlyer said..
one final point that merits mention (as i've seen this with friends) is the front strap fit. i've seen a number of people go for a much wider stance than necessary to try to regain the board control they've given up by having a poorly fitting front strap (too loose, not deep enough, etc.). what works for me is to have the strap be very snug from side to side so i don't slip out when the board flies over the chop on the fin or i'm hiking out and back, but open enough at the top that i can easily go deep enough to curl my toes (to help induce that flight) and lift my heel going into a gybe.

sboardcrazy said..
I just came across this in a FB memory and thought I'd show it. I'm 5ft 5 and wanted a narrower stance on my 50 litre Isonic.
With some advice we added extension plates so I could move the straps back.
I don't get to use the 50 litre much but it works well.

I have posted the before, but here it is again. Stainless steel plate extensions to move FS back on Speed board. Worked well to extend the body out for more leverage on a broad reach speed run and get the board flying off the tail better. . Didn't need it on the upwind side.