Hi everyone, I just sent the below to the Bayside and Wanderers clubs (not sure of the email addresses for WQ, SEQWA, and LCSC, so can you please pass this on?), and thought everyone else should be made aware of it too. Don't want to see any others get fined


Hi guys,

Just wanted to make sure you know that the council is enforcing a local law that bans Kiters and Windsurfers from rigging within the Wellington Point reserve.

Myself and another had our details taken this afternoon for rigging on the grass near the western part of the reserve. Apparently such activities are illegal, and the penalty for undertaking a prohibited activity such as this is $375 (the main reason given to me by officer for this being an offence is that the equipment could be caught by the wind and blown into/onto another person possibly causing an injury). This was the first I'd personally heard of this law, and it did put a dampener on an already largely windless afternoon.

From my discussion with the officer, this has been triggered by several recent complaints from other reserve users. The officer said they were for incidents
involving kites, and that kites were the main target, however windsurfers were also to have their details recorded.

At this stage neither of us today have had an infringement issued, this will be decided later in the week. According to the officer being windsurfers apparently works in our favour as we aren't the prime target and are regarded as less of a threat to others. Personally I'm not holding out much hope.

Key points for us to avoid this in the future are:

1) Don't rig on the grass anywhere in the reserve

2) Rigging on the beach below the high tide mark is fine (this area is outside council's authority, as such the rule does not apply here)

3) We can transport our equipment (unrigged) through the reserve to rig on the beach/return it to our cars etc.

This is likely to cause an issue where the tide is high, particularly when one of the clubs is running an event as the only location we can both rig and park all of our equipment is on the beach. Considering many others also swim etc here and the beach is small when the tide is high, it does seem to be potentially a difficult situation. It's fortunate that the Bayside slalom meet last week avoided this, else 40 or so of us could have walked away with possible fines hanging over our heads.

There must be some way we can find a compromise for all. Perhaps council would permit rigging of windsurfing equipment at the far western end of the park where it is sheltered from the wind in most directions, and if equipment is caught by a N-NE wind it will be blown into the trees rather than the park? It's the only option I've come up with thus far...

At least I got a little just-planing sail (after an hour of practicing light wind gybes) to end the day on a positive note.

I'll post this to the WQ forum on Seabreeze so others are aware too. Not sure of the email addresses for WQ, SEQWA, and LCSC, if you know them, could you please forward this?

Regards,
Hamish (AUS691)

Someone please take this council to court.

Oh and thanks a f***ing lot to the kiters that contributed to this s***. 20 odd years of sailboards without an incident, you guys show up and within 6 months council is slapping down laws

JasonP yes there are signs there advising that no personal water craft are to enter the reserve. Fine the wrong person and I can see that the signs are going to start costing the council ... if the kiters had any sense

Redlands, most fascist council in SEQ but it doesnt seem to matter which way you vote the precedent has been set, $ is the only argument they understand.

Odd that they can hand out fines for such without a verbal warning 1st though, with anything else they have to prove that you saw and understood the signage.

it was my understanding when they brought in these laws/bans , that it was for kiters, NOT windsurfers. Kiters havent been allowed to rig on the grass for a coupla years. As with the marine industry the police often misinterpret the law and go around fining people incorrectly .(maybe they thought those "things" you had were kitesurfers??) Best to check with the council first.

Yes there are two signs, the first at the top of the hill in regard to kites. Second is near carpark on western side stating all PWC are prohibited from entering the reserve.

Mark!

You are well aware that it isn't the 'regular wello crew' that caused any of the problems that saw this kiting/ windsurfing ban come into play.

It happened years before I began kiting, and BOTH incidents were tourists who were advised NOT to go out in the conditions.

ONE person can ruin the sport and area for several. Any other kiters who have caused problems have been spoken to about their actions on the water and the repercussions of it!

I understand yours/ other windsurers frustration though.
There is nothing worse than being put under the same umbrella as people who cause these problems!

mkseven said...

Oh and thanks a f***ing lot to the kiters that contributed to this s***. 20 odd years of sailboards without an incident, you guys show up and within 6 months council is slapping down laws

Hi Vando, sorry I didn't get his name. We were both happy to get planing, even if only for a few minutes - always makes things seem better. You're probably there more than any us, so keep an eye out. I understand their position, and the council officer was just acting under instruction from her boss (who is probably acting under instruction as well). I got the impression she didn't really see us as much of a problem, and was perhaps fishing for ways to explain why. She was nice enough though, we'll see where it goes.

@JasonP - it is pretty large isn't it? My wife pointed out it's more than a speeding fine . We've not been fined yet, so I'm not out of pocket - yet. Fingers crossed There's going to be a follow up later in the week, it seems at this point they are looking to take each occurrence on a case-by-case basis - at least for windsurfers - kiters seem to be getting a hard line approach. The kiting crew (locals anyway) seem to know the deal and keep off the grass (now I know the deal too ).

Mark, it's always a couple of idiots that ruin it for the rest. I did witness a kite hitting another park user last month as it was being recklessly landed. He copped a big spray from just about every other kiter within shouting distance, they weren't impressed.

We'll see what the week brings eh? Hopefully we can work something out. Think I may go to Manly this afternoon...

Hamish

Gestalt, As an ex windsurfer and now kiter, I also don't want a flame war with Wello windsurfers....I think you are quite accurate in allocating the blame for the regulation to kiters. The instigation of the regulation clearly arose from particular incidents many years ago - but you are also accurate in noting that "...there are continuously IDIOT KITERS causing trouble." (I take "IDIOT KITERS" to refer to the small but annoying sub class of kiters who are idiots rather than IDIOT being a descriptor for all kiters. Is that interpretation correct?)

AUS691, Although I can't recall how the local law and policy integrate to provide for the regulation, I think you'll find that it is quite specific to kiting, that the council officer who took your details perhaps couldn't tell the difference or wasn't so sure about the law and that you won't be fined (of course I stand to be corrected). Could you let me know directly (as I may not see this thread updated) how this pans out? I was involved a few years ago with other kiters in negotiations with council and it's important that we keep up to date with what's happening. If you needed support from a kiter to confirm to council that windsurfers are not the problem, I'd be happy to chip in with such advice. Although it shouldn't matter, the fact that I'm an IKO qualified instructor might help.

Re mkseven's "...20 odd years of sailboards without an incident,..." - was there not a sailboard fatality in Redlands many years ago? Perhaps it was at Victoria Point rather than Wello? As it wasn't related to other users as it was not on the beach/park, it's perhaps not directly relevant - but it would be as well to be aware of the details in any discussions with council.

As far as I am aware this issue is realted to kites only , So on behalf of the bayside club I will contact redland shire council I will contact them tomorrow

Simon Fyfe
President Bayside sailboards

our friend who kites got a fine in the mail from the council for 370 $ for bringing kitegear in to Wello. When the councilworkers took his details, the kite wasn't even rigged, it was just the bar and the board on the grass. We had 2 windsurfing rigs and boards on the grass at the same time but council didn't even look at it nor did they ask for our details.

this kite equipment ban has been going on for a few years now and never heard of windsurfers being approached by council officer, i wonder if it was a different officer. maybe like gestalt said, give it a month or so and it will blow over, and was probably just a knee-jerk in reaction to a recent complaint of some kind. they gotta look like they're doing something. after all it is summer and been hot, with more folk in / on the water at the moment. winter will probably be back to the same old

the worst part is not knowing where you stand with regards to fines. this maybe you will, maybe you won't situation is really annoying

virtually puts an end to sailing at high tide

are we allowed to rig up on the road?

Ah so yours is the kite with 1 million strings going to different points- orange and black thing yer?

The wello windsurfing crew as commonly mis-believed does not bite... we are pretty accepting of you guys and rightly so your choice of fun so why the hell would we want to impede on it. We are pretty accepting of kites, wello kiters have started to prove to us that you guys are safe but I can see where the council comes from. Why Vando and I almost had our heads taken off yesterday but it was a simple mistake so we didn't go all KKK on him.

I know the Redlands council are hard to deal with, living here I have had many problems bordering harrassment as my ex liked her animals (rspca volunteer etc). They did not back off until I threatened them with legal involvement to which I had not seen them since. In effect the solution they have provided you with is not one of compromise at all, they moved you out of the area to which they are responsible to an area where it is someone elses problem. They don't know the answer or its above their authority are common answers... I use them all the time at work Kiters really need to approach the MP as residents of the area and make ONE person reponsible who needs the authority otherwise they wont have a job in 4 years.

I have done work for BCC, Ipswich & Redcliffe with stuff that directly involves the use of by-laws, I know how bad Redlands is. Great location to live the rest is s***

Red-orange close enough I guess we have become complacent about kites turning upwind of us but yes often the kite loses power and drops as this one did. I hope that particular guy learnt his lesson of why not to do that.

Any authority has to be consistent on their enforcement- they either enforce or they dont. If one kiter gets pinged and ten kiters rigging 20m away dont that is bordering on victimisation. Most people are pretty self protective so its the pack theory in action- all rig together, the one that seperates from the group is the first that will be eaten. Council officers would be much more comfortable approaching 1 or 2 people rather than 20 people.

bayside inc said...

Okay

I have spoken to Redland Shire Council this morning have been assured by Lance Howard that "there is no problem with sailboarders rigging on the grass at the wellington point reserve" the by law only effects kite boarders

Simon Fyfe
President Bayside Sailboards

Thanks Simon, that's something of a relief. It's a great spot for our families to enjoy while we sail/race/mess about, and it would have been a great shame to lose it, especially when the clubs are all doing so well promoting the sport and trying to include families in the fun.

Fingers crossed they pass this on to the officers (and they let me off for Sunday )

Cheers,
Hamish

that's great to hear Simon. thanks

excellent.

winter wonderland restored.