windsufering said...
Yachting Victoria do not organise our racing its club based

Correct

^ 5 blokes or not, if it's an incorporated not for profit association they have fiduciary duties that they must adhere to in order to meet their directors obligations to the incorporated associations reform act..... and their members.

but lets not get hung up on semantics here online. I agree this isn't the place for this discussion to be held in detail like that, it's hard to portray tone sometimes without these fellas .

I'll preface this by saying that I work in the Vic sport sector running a Sport and Recreation Victoria program, I'm on the board of the Gippsland sports academy, VP of IWC (for a few more weeks then probably Pres depending on outcomes at the AGM in Nov ), Pres of the largest golf club in Gippsland (And when it gets to time commitments, I have a 5mth old as well so time is limited- leading to I haven't sailed since march ).

i had planned to have this discussion in person in the next few months with WV people, but this thread may bring that forward. I have some ideas and would be willing to flesh them out with people to help grow the sport and try to set up a structure for sustainability. We're in an interesting spot as a sport, not a great one, but interesting. Similar to SUP mind you. Both sports have 0 chance of ever being recognised as a stand alone State Sporting Association (or national body), so it's been frustrating to watch a small % of the sup community get stuck in to surfing Vic when they are trying to grow sup. surfing Vic have now been the recipient of a $100k+ grant for female participation in sup through VicHealth. Sup Vic would have been no chance of getting $5k on their own let along over $100k. We're similar with windsurfing. SUP need to bend over backwards to work with surfing Vic to make sure they don't let this slip or they'll be where windsurfing is now in 5-10yrs time.

the future lies with aligning with YV & YA. If you look at the windsurfing NSW site and check the clubs page, they're all linked to sailing clubs (except the wave sailors, qld's junior program is through a yacht club too). There is a way to do it that allows for freestyle and wave events, I'm not sure the NSW structure is perfect, but it seems effective. I reckon we could get something more effective and more suited to how we sail with bums on seats and hands to help.

YA & YV would not run the events, club committees would need to- so like the current structure, to get something to work we will need volunteers... Like every sport: soccer, afl, netball etc. the state body would run state titles in partnership with a club, like every other sport. But again the sport needs volunteers. Many hands make light work so the saying goes. The shops can sponsor but shouldnt be running events, it's not their role to make sure a sport is viable- there's spin offs here and other discussions, but this isn't for today.

the Australian sports commission is funding sports through a strategy called 'winning edge'. Sports are being funded based on participation numbers and results at major championships like the Olympics. With this in mind, aligning with YA is smart as sailing is one of our most successful Olympic sports at the moment. YA were one of a very small number of sports to get an increase in funding this year. Sports like cricket, AFL, rugby all got a reduction in funding.

im happy to be involved in a chat with interested people, sounds like Ginger is buying the first round which suits me . I can have a structure drafted out ready to go.

That's a great offer Dan and would be foolish to ignore this opportunity to try to change things for the better for everyone. I hope that WV take you up on it.

I don't think that there is much of a debate here. There is no one sitting around and pondering if WV and AWA could be doing more (No doubt they could).

I am no longer a committee member, and part of the reason I left was because of the politics of it all. I wanted to help run events and infect people with passion for the sport I loved, teaching children, sharing the stoke etc... Its what I was passionate about.

As someone that came into this as extremely enthusiastic and wanting to make positive changes, what I actually found plenty of red tape, cynicism and a general attitude that sucked the fun out of everything. (Not just internally, but also from outsiders on forums etc)

Since leaving the politics behind, I have been able to concentrate more on windsurfing and less on all the talk of insurance and whatever. I think that we just need to take this back to grass roots fun. Forget racing and big events for the time being, and focus on building a community and just having fun.

Too many people take all this all too seriously. We are talking about recreational sport. We are basically a bunch of guys on the water mucking about in water.

Potentially any new windsurfers thinking of trying out this sport and reading this tread we are all a bunch of control freaks and bureaucrats. I am not sure that this is the correct image to portray.

Take all this pent up anger and disappointment contact the AWA and WV president. Attend the AGM, vote elect and take part in the changes you want to make. There is no good being a keyboard cowboy posting of forums of how crap something is and then expecting someone to take it and run with it. Change starts with you!

There are plenty of unfilled places on the WV committee for resilient people that have ideas. I think the presidency would be up for whoever wants it, as Steve has done his time and right now is keeping the chair warm for a strong passionate person with the right credentials to step up.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with much of whats been said here, but its not the right forum to be airing dirty laundry or grievances. There are much better ways this can be channeled.

DanP said..

but lets not get hung up on semantics here online. I agree this isn't the place for this discussion to be held in detail like that, it's hard to portray tone sometimes without these fellas .

This is 2015 ... not 1870. Chatting in a public forum like this is *exactly* where it should be done.

Edit: ... considering distances between the groups that need representation, eg: Sandy Point, Torquay, Mallacoota

mathew said..

kato said..
Remember it's not about the people who volunteer their time it's about doing what should be done for the sport.

Every single thing discussed so far, is 99.99% true... clubs, direction, representation, "good for the sport", etc.

But this completely and utterly wrong. Nobody is paid to run the clubs.
If no one volunteers to run clubs/events/etc, then it wont get done. Irrespective of what is wanted/needed/etc.


And to highlight the point - where is SpeedFornight this year? It is a social activity without any racing, but has lots of beer, BBQ's, banter, movies, skiing, go-karts... and even some windsurfing. PS... getting commitment from almost anyone to turn up at all, is like pulling hens teeth.

Just to address the volunteer issue - unfortunately this is not just isolated to WS. I'm a volunteer of a few organisations and have been in various committees over the years. 'Volunteers' that are prepared to attack the 'red-tape' head-on are few & far between. Add to this the fear of litigation, abuse, meeting everyone's expectations and the long hours that it entails and you'll be hard pressed to find someone that loves a sport that will commit to the role.

W/Surfing is very different to many sports that require youth to participate in the sport. The demographic (I assume) of many windsurfers that would have the experience, time and patience to manage a national or state sporting club are working adults with families or semi-retired (at the top age bracket) with maybe some retired . The sport is still enjoyable at that age as opposed to most organised sports where the committees are made up of those that cannot, or chose not to do the sport any more for health reasons or simply because they can't maintain the competitiveness. W/surfing can be done into the latter years of life regardless of age & fitness - maybe not competitively, but on a recreational level, so instead of the 'oldies' (middle-aged) stepping aside & retiring to take on such roles as committee organisation so that the next generation (fitter & younger) can come through - they are either still active participants or don't wish to sacrifice the little time they have on organising a competition when they can be still on the water...my 2 cents.

To say slalom racing could be replaced with GPS or time trial or lap time recording is like saying formula 1 car racing could be decided off qualifying times or the Melbourne cup not ran as a race but all the horse doing a single lap at random times, that just wouldn't be racing.

Slalom racing brings in many other elements which GPS events don't such as starts, choosing lines and consistency.
It also brings people together in a single location rather than just choosing to go to there own "fast" spot to record a session then head home to post.
GPS free race is a great format and compromise but does not replace a fleet / slalom race as it was pre GPS, they did race sailboards pre gps and there were many events pre GPS to.

ginger pom said...
ok.

There's a discussion on this next week.

If you have constructive views, or even just strong views, then talk to

> The person in the shop you usually go to... (maybe buy something while you're there). Dave Core, Fletch SHQ or Paul ZU.
> IWC president, Mick
> AWA - Foxy
> WV - Stephen

We'll try to post back after cup weekend with the thoughts. From the looks of it, it's going to take a volunteers and years to get the level of organisation that people seem to want... so please bear with us and be ready to contribute!!

Thanks, I guess I'll watch with interest. I did put some dollars down and join WV

ginger pom said..

muz720 said..
To say slalom racing could be replaced with GPS or time trial or lap time recording is like saying formula 1 car racing could be decided off qualifying times or the Melbourne cup not ran as a race but all the horse doing a single lap at random times, that just wouldn't be racing.

Slalom racing brings in many other elements which GPS events don't such as starts, choosing lines and consistency.
It also brings people together in a single location rather than just choosing to go to there own "fast" spot to record a session then head home to post.
GPS free race is a great format and compromise but does not replace a fleet / slalom race as it was pre GPS, they did race sailboards pre gps and there were many events pre GPS to.

exactly.... GPS racing is science rather than sport.. it's about buying kit and training hard... in fact *it is training* because there's no race day, no nerves, no pack of people entering a gybe, if you **** up you can re-record.

In short, it's good but it's not racing

That's why it's called "free racing". You race against a select group of criteria. Slalom and GPS Free Racing are completely different things. In NSW they have a Slalom and GPS Free Race series. I'm attending their state champs in November at Sanctuary Point. No one there is arguing slalom vs GPS. They just do both depending on conditions.

In fact you can run GPS and slalom concurrently if desired - how's that?

But this form is about two things:

a) Affiliation of local clubs (including WV) with Yachting Australia/Victoria provides the best pipeline to advancing windsurfing. No question.

b) WV is a club. If it wants to remain as a club, it should consider a change to it's name to reflect that it is a Melbourne based windsurfing club with little if no influence over the sport outside local events. It should also develop a strategic plan to inform people about it's strategic goals.

If on the other hand, if WV it wants to truly "advocate" on behalf of windsurfers statewide it should consider whether it should stop taking membership dues directly from individuals and operate instead as a committee as Windsurfing NSW does.

Unfortunately deep thoughts don't promote events, open club houses, prepare for briefings, lay courses, rig sails, teach beginners, motivate children, stand on the beach in the rain, judge comps, derig sails, tidy up club houses, cook sausages, drive trailers home
Nor does talk of governance, incorporation, strategy, surveys, consultation,

Achieving them is important...jibber jabbering about them isn't

A Calender of events has not worked in the past. When the system is broke its about fixing it. A state organisation should not be a club and run events. Retailers should not run events. Clubs need to run events. State organisation should be providing the strategic plans, method, programs and support for the clubs to do what they do best. Clubs provide community. Clubs provide support. Windsurfing in Victoria has informal clubs. Bono blasters Connewarrie Cremasters, add to this locations you could form a club around like Green Point, Elwood, etc and you have plenty to start formulating ideas from. Volunteers is always the difficult one but from my experience if you make it fun and enjoyable people want to be part of it and will help out to make it successful.
Discussion is important. Views can be aired and taken account of. I congratulate Kato for having the courage to raise this. I congratulate all those that have contributed. Please all those that are lurking on this forum do not be shy. Voice your opinion as it needs to be heard.
once the community expresses its ideas then the state organisation has a plan to work to and ideas to run with. An organisation has no place to represent its activity if it does not represent the views of the community.
Change needs to happen. If change does not happen our state association will limp on, volunteers will burn out and no new blood will come in and eventually the organisation will die. Is that what we want?

I have been told that at the WV AGM there was a strong presentation on a calender of events and new website. Can the people that attended tell us a bit about it. Where there many there to hear the message?

Great discussion, well done Kato and you're kicking arse Dan!

waveboy1 said..well said :) i for one am tired of reading the he said ,she said arguments,
we do need to get back to basics ! i did help start the kids club too:) before these others where mentioned so give me some credit where credit is due ;)Also while i am at it ,my push for 2016 Wave Nationals is all funded by me and as i go through all these protocols ,i get little support financially ZuBoardsports,Shq,and Windsurfer Mag close friends have been helpful i am growing the beginner to winner structure of the sport but all the gritty bits are weighing me down its lost its integrity of just getting out there and having fun so any promotional days at our base are important to show people its a great sport and pass-time to pursue:) we need to weed out the procrastinators the fun police and penpushes that forget what Windsurfing is all about ? support of the the clubs that seem to pretend there growing the sport ?? as for AWA and WV remains to be seen at present i am teaching and training clients to master our sport with limited funding and equipment so any support is greatly appreciated cheers JONO ,SupWindsurf :)

kato said..

jermaldan said..
This is what happens when it isn't windy.

No this is what happens when I get sick of the same excuses of why stuff is being done.

This discussion needs to happen and in a civilised manner, otherwise were dead as a sport.

Just for asking ,every seen one of these for AWA or WV

Governance concerns three key issues:

1 --How an organisation develops strategic goals and direction

2---How the board/committee of an organisation monitors the performance of the organisation to ensure it achieves these strategic goals

3---has effective systems in place and complies with its legal and regulatory obligations ensuring that the board/committee acts in the best interests of the members

Checked both AWA and WV web sites couldn't find anything. Anyone know a location?

The AWA financials are a interesting read, couldn't find WV's one

Perhaps the Green Island nationals should be renamed the Foxy Nationals and perhaps Foxy now owns the AWA