I got taken out twice on Thursday. They were all over the pond. The main problems is they jump and land downwind right in front of you leaving you know where to go and little chance of avoiding them or they fail a landing and the kite falls right in your path which is what happened to me on both occasions.

I was under the impression the unwritten rule is they stay on the ocean side of the pond with the divide determined by the float in the miidle.

elmo said...
There are rules for the Pond have been for about 3 years, a "local" would know them.

Sorry a one poster with something like this reaks of troll

Yeah hmmm maybe true. He says "what are the rules" then "don't seem to be working..." well yeah maybe cos he is sailing thru the kite area.

Adrenalin maybe clarify a bit...?

I've been sailing in safety bay almost every session for the past 7 seasons and have watched first hand the spread and drama that kiting has brought with it

Unfortunately..... I've had so many run ins with the usual jump upwind and then the following dropping of kite that can cover up to 50+meters of area

It's time for local authorities to look at the implications of the extreme growth of kiting and develop some new guidelines to insure that windsurfers whether new or old to the sport have an area that is clearly marked and SAFE to use.

The pond is an important part of windsurfing in WA and it is where I wish to introduce our brilliant sport to my son in a few years....I only hope that the frequent kite vs windsurf incidents don't cause a complete ban which is a real possibility

adrenalin67 said...

G'day All,

I'm a Safety Bay local and do all of my sailing here. What a spot!!
This season I've been brought down close to a dozen times by kite lines hitting my mast or body, or bailing completely to avoid a kiter mid-air plowing through my rig and myself.
I'm not certain as to whether any rules exist at present about sailing within 'the pond,' but feel the Rockingham Council needs to be proactive on this issue before someone gets seriously hurt. If there are rules at present, they don't seem to be working for various reasons.
Can anyone enlighten me and what thoughts do other windsurfers have?

There are rules, they're on the sign right next to the path to the beach at both the windsurfing rigging area and the kitesurfing rigging area. Unfortunately there are no actual division bouys though, as the sign refers to, which I think is half the problem.

You get the occasional kooky kiter who decides to kite well below the halfway mark, but theres a rather large grey area in the middle where its anyones game. Maybe the council or relevant government body could look at putting the bouys in? I've heard tell that they didn't want to put them in for fear of someone running into them and suing. There's at least three old moorings and one newish mooring (which it appears are never to be used again) out there that expose them to that problem already....

5 to 10 years ago kites respected the pond it just t
Takes one rouge tea bager to ruin it for everyone Else! [}:)]

gavnwend said...
5 to 10 years ago kites respected the pond it just t
Takes one rouge tea bager to ruin it for everyone Else! [}:)]

Years ago Go Windsurfing would effectively police the area and let kiters know where they should be learning.

Now, every learner seems to want to learn in the pond and do runs for 20 metres and then turn around.

The signs there really don't say much, so what is there to police?

I would like it if they made kiters have to run all the way out to the other sandbar before changing direction, just like the windsurfers should. It makes the place a whole lot less congested that way.

adrenalin67 said...
G'day All,

Troll Elmo? I joined this forum specifically to throw this issue out for discussion and hopefully learn something, as a precursor to a possible letter to Council. Enlighten me and give me something constructive!
I rig up and thus launch from the grass between the boat ramp carpark and the Safety Bay Yacht Club and haven't seen any info signed around there. As far as sailing in a kiting area, I've been brought down all over the pond and thus I'm trying to clarify something here, so thanks Col5555, I'll abide by what you've said when I'm out from now on.

There is no signage where you rig. You either have to go to the 'windsurfer carpark' or the fisrt entrance to the pond south of the 'kitesurfers' car park to see the signage. It's much worse on light wind days.

And I am sorry to say but a fair few of the idiotic kiters seem to be locals.

Also a fair few windsurfers sail through the kite only area. (myself included.) Which shouldn't be a problem if everyone behaves properly.

There is plenty of water just outside the pond to have fun in, but why should someone have to move becasue others are sailing irresponsibly.

AUS1023 said...
I've been sailing in safety bay almost every session for the past 7 seasons and have watched first hand the spread and drama that kiting has brought with it

Unfortunately..... I've had so many run ins with the usual jump upwind and then the following dropping of kite that can cover up to 50+meters of area

It's time for local authorities to look at the implications of the extreme growth of kiting and develop some new guidelines to insure that windsurfers whether new or old to the sport have an area that is clearly marked and SAFE to use.

The pond is an important part of windsurfing in WA and it is where I wish to introduce our brilliant sport to my son in a few years....I only hope that the frequent kite vs windsurf incidents don't cause a complete ban which is a real possibility

The only way "local authorities" know whats going on is if they are actually told.
I would suggest everyone document and report ant and all collisions, then they will actually be aware of the situation.
Maybe someone could post a "local Authorities" name and email address.

I Guess this is not wave sailing, but just to let you know how different our sport is.
From the start, going out or surf in...did you know that the Rules for kiters(IKO) is the priority goes to the one who surf! In windsurfing it's the one who go out into the ocean(unless local rules stipulate something else)!! I Came close a few times on my last trip, particularly in one of those those days where you need the channel to go out....if not it could cost you a 45min swims...and mast and sails. Usually I take whitewater and eat it and let kiters, windsurfers surf their wave. But that day I was using the channel and they were surfing(of course they can't put their kite a 12h00...they have to put it at 9h)...with the entier kite and line blocking the channel...and they were giving us **** and we were giving them ****. Well, we were both in our right!! ;-) Of course rules also stipulate I think, kiters should always give priority to the one who is the most vulnerable..like surfers, body surfers etc...I guess going out in big surf is not considered to be vulnerable.

I think they just don't know any wave etiquette, it is relatively a young sport and it's so easy to go wave sailing in kites..that new comers can jump in after 6 month of riding..in windsurfing it takes years.

They were jumping from back of the wave to a few feet in front of you while you were surfing.....sometime turning around and going upwind(backside for us) while you were riding frontside...and they seemed to not understood that we like to surf it frontside and and for us it's downwind! Also there, I guess priority is to the one who is the most upwind...but seems that on waves, rules get more flexible in kite world.

Agreed our local guys that kite/sail like Matty G, Allan G, Jason & John G are all top blokes and it's fantastic to share the water with them when they are kiting

^^^ Jase I was not having a go at your post or you... you are a fkn good sailor and kiter and understand both sides etc.

BUT

the flip side of your post: If we make allowances like that... should I then 'understand' that in Winthrop, Murdoch, Churchlands, Nedlands etc that there is heaps of middleaged Asian ladies who can't drive for sh!t, so I just accept that I will have to swerve to avoid them and if they hit me, well, so be it?

No bl00dy way.

When windsurfing came along did surfers just say "oh well now we will get no waves, boo hoo, oh well too bad" or did yachties say "awww, they are more manoueverable so we will just let them ignore ROW rules and do whatever the fk they want" ???

NO. We all stuck to the rules. You don't duck n weave to avoid the newcomers, you make the newcomers obey the existing rules. Evem MORE SO if the newcomers are ignorant of the rules or openly don't care abut them.


I don't give a rodent's rectum if kiters are more manoueverable, or don't know left from right, or who picked up the swell first - the rules apply to all - and we should not have to think "ooh there are kiters out today I might have to be a bit more understanding than yesterday or let them bend the rules" FK THAT. That is when peopel come to grief..... wehn Monday's rules are different to Thursday cos kiters are out or Davo is on the water and he is a tool so we let him be, of "cos I can do 20m runs thru the break everyone has to let me, even if I am dropping in"

No.

I got taken out by a Kiteboarder recently, but thats just because I cant turn. It would be a shame if my pond continued to be so congested, as I am not a fan of slight chop outside the sand bar. I'm now teaching my son to Kiteboard, and because he's also a windsurfer he'll be able to use all areas of the pond!

^^^

I kite there 2 times a year max,

I think its a tad shallow next to the sand bar for windsurfers. Having kiters next to the sand bar utilizes the pond to its full exstent.

Pitty about the ****ty kiters wrecking your day, I wouldnt be impressed if that happened to me.

The simple rule to sailing with Kites at Safety Bay is expect them to do the unexpected. And keep your wits about you.

Us windsurfers are just as guilty of breaching the unenforcable guidelines on the signs.

Just the same as whinging about kiters pulling the old dangle without looking trick we need to remember that when you power into a gybe at speed we carve an through an arc of about of about 25 -40 meters on average. All of a sudden that kiter you passed 50 m upwind of halfway across the pond is in your path.

I have been a Safety Bay local for about 10 years now and have only had one collision with a kiter, I have had to take evasive action because of kites many times in the past and it is not always thier fault.

And just remember Rocko Council is intending on dredgeing a channel through the bar in the next few months so the stinkboats can get in and out without having to think, look or use any basic navigation skills so we may as well enjoy what we have left of the pond in its current state.

Subsonic said...

Mr. No-one said...
These upwind half for the kiters and so on rules are rubbish, when I've been taken out by kites it's because they have dropped their kite on me or them jumping without the brains to see who's downwind. Surly if safety was king then the windsurfers would have the upwind half and kites could just take themselves out on the downwind half, why should our health be put at risk just because kites want to hog the sandbar.

It works to good effect at peli point (kites downwind of windsurfers) I think when they were sorting the issue out back in the day, the local authorities decided they didn't want the first thing a kite could tumble into to be a car or power lines (which happened last season anyway).

Still have issues with kites ending up in trees and moored yachts at peli. Not to mention dramas with learners in both sports intermingling (photo below shows two windsurfers taken out by a kiter in Jan 2011). Only a matter of time before a kiter seriously necks a windsurfer (or a windsurfer clocks a kiter) or worse still a kiter lands in the car park or across the road.



A few have been saved by the trees and bystanders in the last few years. Personally witnessed a kiter body dragged across shallows onto beach, up and over wall onto grass. He was saved by trees and a few bystanders. After this, despite being told his kite was too large for the conditions he tried to re-launch!!! Nearly met the same fate and was saved by the kite nose diving and some locals (kiters and windsurfers) telling him to pack up.

A few years back I also witnessed (with a heap of other local sailors) a kiter launch from the Cunningham Street Car Park in Melville. He was advised that he was not permitted to do so and should go to the designated area. He proceeded to tell everyone that he thought it was safer to launch where he had and that it was the safest place for his family to watch. 30 minutes or so later he returned from sailing and attempted to land his kite at same spot. It was a reasonably light day, however, he managed to lose control of the kite - it went parallel and over the beach. The lines hit his 5-6 month pregnant wife, who went to help him land. She was basically garotted by the lines and knocked off her feet, landing hard on her side. We assisted her and him to get the kite down - but this should never have happened in the first place.

Have also witnessed kites going into moored yachts at Peli, when sailing in a southeasterly...when it was apparent that the take off area overlapped the windsurfing learner area and was marginal to say the least for a safe take off to avoid yachts and learners.[}:)]



I can see the appeal of kiting...it's user error that scares me.

While user error applies equally to windsurfing, the amount of water required for a kite (under the lines and canopy) and the arc of the lines, (I believe) makes them more of a concern.

Having said all that, a large proportion of the kiters manage to stay downwind in a south-westerly, however more want to venture into the open water and to do this it requires them to sail upwind to avoid the channel.

Like all sports (and life in general) Darwin's theory will come into play and sort it all out. Hopefully it won't be the innocent bystander that gets hurt...which (unfortunately) is what usually happens.

While I am not a kitesurfer I have visited the WAKSA website to locate guides in relation to Pelican Point, Melville and Safety Bay. Check it out. They also allow you to download PDF's which I have done in the past and handed to Kiters setting up at unapproved locations in Melville (although I now don't advocate you do that...just call a ranger).

www.waksa.org.au/locations/?view=location&id=10