Forums > Wing Foiling General

How good is the new North Sonar?

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Created by MProject04 > 9 months ago, 18 Feb 2023
Taeyeony
84 posts
26 Oct 2023 8:59PM
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MA850v2 looks very tempting. How about the glide and the lowend? It rarely above 15kt where I lived. But now I have DW board it might help me getting up on smaller foil.

ganeshka
14 posts
27 Oct 2023 4:16PM
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randomfoiler said..

WindyBear said..
Hi all,

I've been silently reading all the posts and waiting to get my hands on a SF wing before posting a comment!

So here goes, I finally got my hands on a test SF930 wing to try from the local dealer (Ejka surf shop, Norway). I went out in storm conditions, 35-40 knots, swell coming from different directions, massive chop and nuking winds! it was a baptism by fire and did the 930 perform!! It was paired with the 270 stab, the only one I have.

I've been riding north since the beginning of this year on the HA1050 which I love. Comparisons to the HA1050/270 combo:

way way lower stall speed
turns better, able really to surf a swell and turn back and forth
glides almost the same as far as I can tell
seems significant slower speed than the 1050
pumping requires some finesse?

The lower stall speed is almost hilariously low, my feet were all over the place in the transitions while I was battling to control my 3.5 wing and the thing just kept flying.. and flying...

The glide is insane for such a small wing...

But the pumping to be honest I could not figure out in that session. I wasn't feeling it like I do on the 1050 or on my (v1) 1450 which I am using for dockstart training (I have a full post called "The Dockstart Diaries" about that if people are interested: www.raet3d.no/l/learningdockstartpart1/

And the one noticeable thing I found was that it literally seemed to have some brakes on it. The mythical "speed zone" which people are talking about in this thread eluded me. Several times I wanted to get out of my existing swell line which was dying out and catch up to one further downwind. But it wasn't possible either because of my poor pump technique or because the wing is too slow. I have had no problem catching up to downwind swell on the HA1050, although that wing requires much more finesse to keep it flying.

I reckon going down to a 215 or 208 would help solve this problem and would again transferm this wing.

But here in lies a conundrum. Is the SF series fast enough for down winding/winging on open swells? would it be ideal for downwind sup foiling?

Would be interested to hear thoughts!

Overall verdict: an amazing wing.




I have had the HA1050 and SF930 with the 178 and 215 stabs since earlier this year. I added the MA850v2 last month.
I can't comment on the bigger stabs as I have never tried them. I barely ever use the 215 anymore.
While the 178 unlocks the SF930 it doesn't make it that much faster. It all depends what you are looking for.
The SF930 is a fantastic front wing as has been pointed out in this thread. Its limitation is top speed.
Yes, the HA1050 (and the smaller ones) will allow you to chase the things in front of you.
With the SF930 you can stay in the swell and if it is rolling too fast you will need to go over the top and drop into whatever is building up behind you. I have to admit that I quite enjoy this as it lengthens my downwind journeys.
Now, this is where the MA850v2 comes in. With that one you can do whatever you want :)
The new smaller SF might unlock the same thing, but I currently don't think I will outgrow the 850 any time soon.



What is the minimum wind speed in knots for 850v2? What is your weight and wing? I'm trying to choose between sf930 and 850v2. With my skills I can use ma1200 in ocean with swells and chop from 12 knots with 8m loft pro and 98 liters boards. Just changed the board to new 88l seek v3. I'm 82 kilo

WindyBear
17 posts
27 Oct 2023 4:34PM
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randomfoiler said..

WindyBear said..
Hi all,

I've been silently reading all the posts and waiting to get my hands on a SF wing before posting a comment!

So here goes, I finally got my hands on a test SF930 wing to try from the local dealer (Ejka surf shop, Norway). I went out in storm conditions, 35-40 knots, swell coming from different directions, massive chop and nuking winds! it was a baptism by fire and did the 930 perform!! It was paired with the 270 stab, the only one I have.

I've been riding north since the beginning of this year on the HA1050 which I love. Comparisons to the HA1050/270 combo:

way way lower stall speed
turns better, able really to surf a swell and turn back and forth
glides almost the same as far as I can tell
seems significant slower speed than the 1050
pumping requires some finesse?

The lower stall speed is almost hilariously low, my feet were all over the place in the transitions while I was battling to control my 3.5 wing and the thing just kept flying.. and flying...

The glide is insane for such a small wing...

But the pumping to be honest I could not figure out in that session. I wasn't feeling it like I do on the 1050 or on my (v1) 1450 which I am using for dockstart training (I have a full post called "The Dockstart Diaries" about that if people are interested: www.raet3d.no/l/learningdockstartpart1/

And the one noticeable thing I found was that it literally seemed to have some brakes on it. The mythical "speed zone" which people are talking about in this thread eluded me. Several times I wanted to get out of my existing swell line which was dying out and catch up to one further downwind. But it wasn't possible either because of my poor pump technique or because the wing is too slow. I have had no problem catching up to downwind swell on the HA1050, although that wing requires much more finesse to keep it flying.

I reckon going down to a 215 or 208 would help solve this problem and would again transferm this wing.

But here in lies a conundrum. Is the SF series fast enough for down winding/winging on open swells? would it be ideal for downwind sup foiling?

Would be interested to hear thoughts!

Overall verdict: an amazing wing.




I have had the HA1050 and SF930 with the 178 and 215 stabs since earlier this year. I added the MA850v2 last month.
I can't comment on the bigger stabs as I have never tried them. I barely ever use the 215 anymore.
While the 178 unlocks the SF930 it doesn't make it that much faster. It all depends what you are looking for.
The SF930 is a fantastic front wing as has been pointed out in this thread. Its limitation is top speed.
Yes, the HA1050 (and the smaller ones) will allow you to chase the things in front of you.
With the SF930 you can stay in the swell and if it is rolling too fast you will need to go over the top and drop into whatever is building up behind you. I have to admit that I quite enjoy this as it lengthens my downwind journeys.
Now, this is where the MA850v2 comes in. With that one you can do whatever you want :)
The new smaller SF might unlock the same thing, but I currently don't think I will outgrow the 850 any time soon.



Really interesting feedback in the comments, from you and from others. I hadn't really thought about the possibility of looking backwards and just choosing a line behind, rather than racing forwards to catch one in front. Makes a lot of sense!

Taeyeony
84 posts
28 Oct 2023 12:28PM
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WindyBear said..

Really interesting feedback in the comments, from you and from others. I hadn't really thought about the possibility of looking backwards and just choosing a line behind, rather than racing forwards to catch one in front. Makes a lot of sense!


I'm not at the level that can do DW without some wind power. But from the pros they suggest that you should never try to hop to the swell in front of you unless you know what you are doing (I.e gain speed down the steep swell then use that momentum to hop to the wave in front of you). They also said you should never look back just pump to keep it going and feel the swell when it catch you.

Shlogger
388 posts
31 Oct 2023 3:07AM
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Just watched the North segment from the AWSI, looks like Mike said it'll be Spring before we see their pump and glide foil. ??????

MProject04
427 posts
31 Oct 2023 4:50AM
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Shlogger said..
Just watched the North segment from the AWSI, looks like Mike said it'll be Spring before we see their pump and glide foil. ??????


It takes a bit of time to copy Armstrong

Shlogger
388 posts
31 Oct 2023 5:59AM
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MProject04 said..

Shlogger said..
Just watched the North segment from the AWSI, looks like Mike said it'll be Spring before we see their pump and glide foil. ??????



It takes a bit of time to copy Armstrong


I have no problem w them copying the best of Arnie, SAB and Axis. ??

MProject04
427 posts
31 Oct 2023 12:43PM
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Shlogger said..

MProject04 said..


Shlogger said..
Just watched the North segment from the AWSI, looks like Mike said it'll be Spring before we see their pump and glide foil. ??????




It takes a bit of time to copy Armstrong



I have no problem w them copying the best of Arnie, SAB and Axis. ??


Same here! Hopefully some cloud 9 and code foils inspiration too. Having said that the Sonar carbon mast design has been up there right from the start (being at high modulus level)

Acker
VIC, 81 posts
3 Nov 2023 10:18AM
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ganeshka said..

randomfoiler said..


WindyBear said..
Hi all,

I've been silently reading all the posts and waiting to get my hands on a SF wing before posting a comment!

So here goes, I finally got my hands on a test SF930 wing to try from the local dealer (Ejka surf shop, Norway). I went out in storm conditions, 35-40 knots, swell coming from different directions, massive chop and nuking winds! it was a baptism by fire and did the 930 perform!! It was paired with the 270 stab, the only one I have.

I've been riding north since the beginning of this year on the HA1050 which I love. Comparisons to the HA1050/270 combo:

way way lower stall speed
turns better, able really to surf a swell and turn back and forth
glides almost the same as far as I can tell
seems significant slower speed than the 1050
pumping requires some finesse?

The lower stall speed is almost hilariously low, my feet were all over the place in the transitions while I was battling to control my 3.5 wing and the thing just kept flying.. and flying...

The glide is insane for such a small wing...

But the pumping to be honest I could not figure out in that session. I wasn't feeling it like I do on the 1050 or on my (v1) 1450 which I am using for dockstart training (I have a full post called "The Dockstart Diaries" about that if people are interested: www.raet3d.no/l/learningdockstartpart1/

And the one noticeable thing I found was that it literally seemed to have some brakes on it. The mythical "speed zone" which people are talking about in this thread eluded me. Several times I wanted to get out of my existing swell line which was dying out and catch up to one further downwind. But it wasn't possible either because of my poor pump technique or because the wing is too slow. I have had no problem catching up to downwind swell on the HA1050, although that wing requires much more finesse to keep it flying.

I reckon going down to a 215 or 208 would help solve this problem and would again transferm this wing.

But here in lies a conundrum. Is the SF series fast enough for down winding/winging on open swells? would it be ideal for downwind sup foiling?

Would be interested to hear thoughts!

Overall verdict: an amazing wing.





I have had the HA1050 and SF930 with the 178 and 215 stabs since earlier this year. I added the MA850v2 last month.
I can't comment on the bigger stabs as I have never tried them. I barely ever use the 215 anymore.
While the 178 unlocks the SF930 it doesn't make it that much faster. It all depends what you are looking for.
The SF930 is a fantastic front wing as has been pointed out in this thread. Its limitation is top speed.
Yes, the HA1050 (and the smaller ones) will allow you to chase the things in front of you.
With the SF930 you can stay in the swell and if it is rolling too fast you will need to go over the top and drop into whatever is building up behind you. I have to admit that I quite enjoy this as it lengthens my downwind journeys.
Now, this is where the MA850v2 comes in. With that one you can do whatever you want :)
The new smaller SF might unlock the same thing, but I currently don't think I will outgrow the 850 any time soon.



What is the minimum wind speed in knots for 850v2? What is your weight and wing? I'm trying to choose between sf930 and 850v2. With my skills I can use ma1200 in ocean with swells and chop from 12 knots with 8m loft pro and 98 liters boards. Just changed the board to new 88l seek v3. I'm 82 kilo


Had the MA850v2 out yesterday with a 4.8 Mode Pro and it still needs about 15-16knots to get going, and needs that technique of building up speed first but not as much as with the smaller HA wings. They've really impoved the glide over v1 MAs as it was coasting down swells for ages. I'll be tending to use it as my higher wind front wing, as it totally comes alive in strong wind and bigger waves, but I'll be using SF930 for pretty much everything else. So you'll prob be better off with the SF930 for details you've described as more forgiving in light winds, with super low stall speed, plus smooth and stable in transitions.

WindyBear
17 posts
6 Nov 2023 5:30PM
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Just a quick report from my first proper coastal winging downwinder here in Norway with some friends using my HA1050/s270 setup. Conditions were typical November, grey skies, rain... Real "Nordic noir" settings, I hope you get the picture.. Wind from East, about 10-12m/s.

First of all doing a downwinder in these conditions was an eye-opener and a humbling experience. You definitely feel more exposed out there off the coast and mentally it is a lot more taxing on the nerves than just winging back and forth in a bay. It's not somewhere you want to take risks.

The swell was bigger than expected (forecasted at 1.5 m).

On rounding the NE tip of the island (see pic) the swell was a bit of a mess, bumps everywhere.. easy to breach the foil suddenly.

Once I got the hang of it and relaxed I could clearly see the potential of the HA1050 for these conditions - given a certain skill level. I had a lot of fun doing zig zag turns, riding right foot forward (my best position) and then doubling back in switch, back and forth, using the wing when needed to power up again. That thing just wants to glide - and go fast! If I had had the skill, I could have probably downwinded fully underpowered (wing flagged) all the way. But the HA1050 at least for my skill level feels a bit too fast and slippery, the swell was running fast and I felt that accelerating forward to another bump was too fast and scary, nor did I have the pump skills or coordination with a wing in my hand to veer off and ride the bumps behind (all with the wing flagged).

When I compare it to my previous session in storm conditions with the sf930, the HA1050 definitely needs more finesse. I would love to do a re-run of this section of coast on the SF930 or 1050 to compare. I reckon the sf series would be a winner for downwind runs, just because it gives so much more confidence to the rider.

Another thing I did notice was that my V1 Nova wing wasn?t great at allowing me to go straighter downwind. I think a hard handle wing would allow me to set the wing more downwind while maintaining speed and pressure. I could be wrong but I think the inflatable wing design would have a lot to say about the angle you can ride downwind (without flagging the wing out).




WST
127 posts
6 Nov 2023 7:54PM
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interesting. I had another different experience on the weekend.
I got a new DW board (the Armstrong one). Using the HA1150 in light wind works very well, but now I need to get better with light wind jibes. when the wind gets really low, I noticed, that with pumping I could get the board flying, but it seems like I somehow couldn't get the foil to accelerate. So it was like, a lot of pumping, boards get hand high above the water but then fall back, could get back while continue pumping but again just hands high. When there was a little more wind with a gust I could get the foil to accelerate and start flying. I wonder if I need proper board pumping technique to get the HA flying/accelerating with slow speed or if that is typical for HA wings. If so, would the SF range behave better in this light wind discipline?

I expected that once the board is up foil should start accelerating automatically, so the higher speed for HA wings is only needed to release the waterline.

WST
127 posts
8 Nov 2023 6:22AM
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for the owners, where is your back feet position compared to mast?is it before the mast,
above the mast
or behind the mast?always looking from the noseor something else?

lenzilot
44 posts
12 Nov 2023 3:48PM
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Is there any experience with the MA1850v2 or MA2100v2? I ride the MA1350 and MA1050 and would like to have a frontwing for light wind 8-12 knt, flatwater, that will rise earlier than the 1350 and is still fast and lively. My big wing is 7m and my weight 93kg, winging skills intermediate - advanced.
I tried the Fanatic/ Duotoe 2400, rises incredible early but is not fast and has quite some drag.
Thank you for any coment

Taeyeony
84 posts
12 Nov 2023 10:29PM
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lenzilot said..
Is there any experience with the MA1850v2 or MA2100v2? I ride the MA1350 and MA1050 and would like to have a frontwing for light wind 8-12 knt, flatwater, that will rise earlier than the 1350 and is still fast and lively. My big wing is 7m and my weight 93kg, winging skills intermediate - advanced.
I tried the Fanatic/ Duotoe 2400, rises incredible early but is not fast and has quite some drag.
Thank you for any coment


I foil mostly in light wind and I've a lot of Norh foils except the MA but I have experience from similar foil from other brand.
In light wind you need the foil that take off at slow speed AND have good glide since light wind often comes with lulls.

The big MA will take off at slow speed but the problem is it need constant power to keep going. You will drop off foil frequently in lulls.

You have two choices:
1 Big HA foils. I mean HA1250 or HA1450. HA has the best glide and the big ones will provide enough lift at low speed.
2. Go with SF foil. The SF has very low stall speed and easier to use compare to the HA but it has less glide than HA but surely a lot better glide than the big MA.

I have HA1050 and SF1080. I can use SF1080 in 8kt easily. The HA1050 in 8kt is a lot trickier (need to pump harder to get up and need to be more precise in transition avoid drop off foil) but it is doable for my weight. (74kg)

lenzilot
44 posts
12 Nov 2023 11:58PM
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Well, I tried the HA1250 but did not get earlier on foil than with the MA1350, did not have the impression, that the HA1250 was faster than the MA1350, the HA1250 had higher stall speed and I did not like it in maneuvers that much.
But maybe I did not try or adapt enough?

Taeyeony
84 posts
13 Nov 2023 12:44AM
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lenzilot said..
Well, I tried the HA1250 but did not get earlier on foil than with the MA1350, did not have the impression, that the HA1250 was faster than the MA1350, the HA1250 had higher stall speed and I did not like it in maneuvers that much.
But maybe I did not try or adapt enough?


What is your weight? And which HA1250 that you try. There are old version HA1250 and HA1450 which is garbage (and not really an HA) in today standard.

MA will have wider speed range than the HA for sure and may be faster than the big HA in powered up condition. You need to compare in the same conditions in this case light wind that is marginal for MA1350 to work for you.

HA have the best efficiency, I mean lower drag at given speed, so it needs less power to sustain flight.

But may not the fastest. If you use big HA, it will generate enough lift for you at lower speed than the MA of similar size and you might end up being slower if power is not the limiting factor.

But in low power condition, you might get up easily on big MA but you will drop off foil when you hit the lull that you might get away easily with the more efficient HA of SF foils.

I suggest you to try the SF1230 but expect this one will be slower than the MA1350 but its stall speed maybe close to walking speed.

ganeshka
14 posts
15 Nov 2023 6:11AM
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Couple of photos ma1200 vs ma850v2. Waiting for wind to try it






Taeyeony
84 posts
15 Nov 2023 11:02AM
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ganeshka said..
Couple of photos ma1200 vs ma850v2. Waiting for wind to try it








MA850v2 is completely different from the pack.

WindyBear
17 posts
15 Nov 2023 11:02PM
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Select to expand quote
Taeyeony said..

ganeshka said..
Couple of photos ma1200 vs ma850v2. Waiting for wind to try it








MA850v2 is completely different from the pack.


Anyone else thinking the MA850 v2 Looks like the Axis Spitfire?

tintifax
VIC, 48 posts
16 Nov 2023 1:58PM
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Select to expand quote
lenzilot said..
Well, I tried the HA1250 but did not get earlier on foil than with the MA1350, did not have the impression, that the HA1250 was faster than the MA1350, the HA1250 had higher stall speed and I did not like it in maneuvers that much.
But maybe I did not try or adapt enough?


I got up so much earlier with HA1250 than MA1350. Compared also by switching back and forth in same sessions in stable conditions.....because i really wanted to test this out. Even the HA1150 got me up much earlier.
Maybe it is because i am used to HA wings, as i' ve had Axis ARTs for a year and have already learned how to start them (getting minimal board speed before activating with board pumps).
And a first gen board with bevel at the back doesn't help with HAs (i have 90 kg and the indiana 81L with boxy tail and moderate width of 62cm).
And once flying, the HAs had less drag and better fly and pump through lulls - so in all aspects the better choice for me in low winds with lulls.
I also found the MA1350 more playful in manouvers than the HA1250 which is obvious by the huge difference in span For me the HA950 has a comparable low end to the MA1350 which then is also as turny and so much fun to carve with confidence.

In short: maybe the key to unlock the potential is to get familiar with the starting technique of HAs (which is also less stress for my shoulders)

lenzilot
44 posts
17 Nov 2023 5:43AM
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So maybe I have not adapted my technique enough ?! I will try again

larsdegroot
25 posts
27 Nov 2023 3:07AM
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So I finally tried the ma850v2 with the s208 stab. I came from the ma1050 / s210 stab.
First run I had to get used to the balance, i was wobbling allot and had to find my balance more. The 850v2 is fast and pumps way better then the 1050. I was impressed with the speed of this wing. The downside is i was hearing noise like a whistling sound that I never heard before with any of my other north gear. I used the same C700 fuse, and the same mast. So I have to figure out where that sound comes from.

Taeyeony
84 posts
27 Nov 2023 10:01AM
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I think the whistle come from S208. The trailing edge of this tail is quite blunt. But I leave it that way for safety. Mine is not very loud anyway. I also found that the newer front wings from North not as sharp as the older ones.

MProject04
427 posts
27 Nov 2023 7:01PM
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Taeyeony said..
I think the whistle come from S208. The trailing edge of this tail is quite blunt. But I leave it that way for safety. Mine is not very loud anyway. I also found that the newer front wings from North not as sharp as the older ones.



I experienced some whistle on the s208 but it's a rather low pitch and almost calming happy humming.

I've had worse higher pitch on other foils.

MProject04
427 posts
30 Nov 2023 3:00AM
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From the newly published North Sonar guide V2.. confirming the expansion of the range: issuu.com/northactionsportsgroup/docs/north_sonarridersguide_digital

Strat919
25 posts
30 Nov 2023 4:17AM
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Hey all... I have learned on the reflex wings. I have the 2200, 1850 and 1500. I purchased the SF1230 and I have tried it several times. I can jibe easily with the reflex wings, but when I jibe on the SF1230, I have to put a lot of back foot pressure when going into a jibe. It seems to try to nose dive when jibing. I have played around with the mast track position and didn't really help. Tried it with the 270, 215 and 210 tail. The SF is great when I cruising, just when I go into jibe. Any ideas?

Also I have the Ma1350 and don't have this problem.

MProject04
427 posts
30 Nov 2023 6:01PM
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Strat919 said..
Hey all... I have learned on the reflex wings. I have the 2200, 1850 and 1500. I purchased the SF1230 and I have tried it several times. I can jibe easily with the reflex wings, but when I jibe on the SF1230, I have to put a lot of back foot pressure when going into a jibe. It seems to try to nose dive when jibing. I have played around with the mast track position and didn't really help. Tried it with the 270, 215 and 210 tail. The SF is great when I cruising, just when I go into jibe. Any ideas?

Also I have the Ma1350 and don't have this problem.


I have the SF1080 and coming from the HA1050 the first thing I noticed is how 'unstable' the SF felt in that it was much more lively. It easily banks shaply into a turn. The turn radius on the SF is also smaller. So my first jibes on the SF weren't smooth. In fact the first 30 mins I couldn't see the point of the SF with all its instability. It felt like a lot of work.

But after the 30 mins of dialing in it came more towards me. I tried to make wider turns, not using all the turning ability it gave me and progressed from there. I run a s208 stab (a bit small) and this setup likes a bit of pumping throughout the turn.

I hope this helps a bit. Every foil is different and requires a dial-in stage. I tell you, I haven't gone back to the HA yet, so much fun has it been on the SF.

Strat919
25 posts
30 Nov 2023 9:29PM
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Select to expand quote
MProject04 said..

Strat919 said..
Hey all... I have learned on the reflex wings. I have the 2200, 1850 and 1500. I purchased the SF1230 and I have tried it several times. I can jibe easily with the reflex wings, but when I jibe on the SF1230, I have to put a lot of back foot pressure when going into a jibe. It seems to try to nose dive when jibing. I have played around with the mast track position and didn't really help. Tried it with the 270, 215 and 210 tail. The SF is great when I cruising, just when I go into jibe. Any ideas?

Also I have the Ma1350 and don't have this problem.



I have the SF1080 and coming from the HA1050 the first thing I noticed is how 'unstable' the SF felt in that it was much more lively. It easily banks shaply into a turn. The turn radius on the SF is also smaller. So my first jibes on the SF weren't smooth. In fact the first 30 mins I couldn't see the point of the SF with all its instability. It felt like a lot of work.

But after the 30 mins of dialing in it came more towards me. I tried to make wider turns, not using all the turning ability it gave me and progressed from there. I run a s208 stab (a bit small) and this setup likes a bit of pumping throughout the turn.

I hope this helps a bit. Every foil is different and requires a dial-in stage. I tell you, I haven't gone back to the HA yet, so much fun has it been on the SF.


Thanks for the info.... makes sense. I'll get back on it:)

Jelmer
2 posts
11 Dec 2023 11:38PM
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Anyone did some paddle downwinders with the 1230SF?

I have been doing a lot of wingfoiling with the 1850R and now looking into an upgrade of this foil and also downwinding for next year. Thinking about buying a downwind board (also for light wind days) and to me the 1230SF looks like the best foil for downwinders? However for example some of the Axis foils have a much bigger span. So I was wondering if this North Foil would be a good one to start with? (what else?)

Thanks!

randomfoiler
73 posts
12 Dec 2023 1:26AM
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Select to expand quote
Jelmer said..
Anyone did some paddle downwinders with the 1230SF?

I have been doing a lot of wingfoiling with the 1850R and now looking into an upgrade of this foil and also downwinding for next year. Thinking about buying a downwind board (also for light wind days) and to me the 1230SF looks like the best foil for downwinders? However for example some of the Axis foils have a much bigger span. So I was wondering if this North Foil would be a good one to start with? (what else?)

Thanks!


Haven't tried the 1230 - but a good starting point would be to convince this guy to reveal what he used:



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"How good is the new North Sonar?" started by MProject04