RAF142134 said..
Foilfox, maximising efficiency in each element of your setup. Have you tried a longer fuse with a wider tail for more pump, I have seen some riders on tiny front foils with a very long fuse and a fairly wide tail for pump. Did you see the winning combo in my post
"GoFoil light wind annihilation team", different boards, wings and foils, all pretty fun in very light wind.

Hi, RAF
Good Suggestion, thx.
Many people had some good recommendations thx all, it became clear that the boards dimensions and its shape that is not optimal for ultra light winds.
I'll be looking now for something like 6.5 x 19 with 85 to 90l as light wind board. I am going for a 2 board solution with my 60l board.
I have looked al many brands, but so far I have not seen the perfect board. Maybe swift foil boards, coustom from UK?

Sabfoil torpedo has been getting a lot of attention, I just wish they would make light coloured boards as black gets too hot where I am!

SlowlyButSurely said..

Particularly for winging, I can see a scenario where these long (>7ft) boards are no longer chosen.

Sure, if there is enough wind, but that's the thing - low wind winging seems to mean very different things for people. I have seen video clips with white caps on the water, and people saying it's light wind.

In our light wind conditions I wouldn't imagine using a board that I would sink under water. It just wouldn't be practical, and would not work in our conditions. While a downwind board that's 25 litres bigger than me (6'9'' x 18.5'') saves a day. And once going, the apparent wind does the work and keeps the foil happy and fast.

A crazy long clip below (because it was a crazy long and beautiful day). Somewhere at 07:45 mark you would get some idea of the wind strength. The other guy in the clip tried a downwind board for the first time, more than 30 L above his body weight, with a bigger wing and with twice as big foil than what I have.

But that said, as soon as it's windy, a smaller board is even more nice to use. I think the most sensible choice of gear depends on so many factors - conditions, skills, etc. And of course, sometimes the simplicity of having just one board that kind of does it all trumps everything, even if it would not do the lightest winds as good as some special DW board.

I had a 7'6" dw style board that worked really in truly light winds. I recently got the Cabrinha Swift board 125l at 6'9". I only wing and don't require paddle up abilities. It does all the acceleration things really nice and it's the high flotation that I really like. I can stand and wait in a no wind lull and it's easy to get going when it's already on top of the water. I get many sessions in my cold climate with air and water just above freezing and I don't care for being submerged in that even with good gear. So floaty it is. The Swift may be an overlooked option by many. It looks kinda weird but so far I dig it.

The Swift and ACE seem to fit the bill of being just a little wider and shorter.
I am one of those people who find straps a big help both in the air and getting going. So I'm actively considering the ACE at this moment. I'd like to demo both, plus the inflatable ACE.

SlowlyButSurely said..

kook123 said..

Taavi said..

SlowlyButSurely said..

Particularly for winging, I can see a scenario where these long (>7ft) boards are no longer chosen.

Sure, if there is enough wind, but that's the thing - low wind winging seems to mean very different things for people.

This...I see plenty of people saying they can get up in light wind just as easy on their 5'8" 60L as on their 7'6" 120L, and if that's the case, that is great, why not stick with the smaller board.

My DW board makes a huge difference for me getting up in what passes for light wind here.

I didnt say that.
I am comparing a 6'5x20 with a 7'4x18.5 And what I said is that a strapped ML is as good as a strapless DW. For me light wind is 8-9kt

And I can talk because I own them both thus I have probably a bit more experience and knowledge than you in comparing them.

You can keep your dw board and be happy.

Something that I have come to terms with, also having done the DW board and midlength, is that the DW board is clearly better, but my skill with a midlength can make up for the difference.

The Armstrong ML more accurately matches a small DW board dims anyway.

I had to catch myself because after winging a DW board for a whole season, then a narrowish shortish midlength for a season, and now a true midlength for a season, I was telling people that my Sunova Carver 85l was just as capable as my DW board. While it may be true, it's come from 8000 kilometers of experience and the average person can't hop on a midlength and replicate the results. It takes time to develop the skillset. Similar to people who chased the sinker game down to tiny sizes saying "oh yeah my 40l takes off just as well as my 80l" had simply lost perspective over time.

Generically, DW boards are more capable for the average person to hop on than ML. However, with time and experience a midlength is nearly as capable but simply more fun in the air for active riding.

BWalnut said..

SlowlyButSurely said..

kook123 said..

Taavi said..

SlowlyButSurely said..

Particularly for winging, I can see a scenario where these long (>7ft) boards are no longer chosen.

Sure, if there is enough wind, but that's the thing - low wind winging seems to mean very different things for people.

This...I see plenty of people saying they can get up in light wind just as easy on their 5'8" 60L as on their 7'6" 120L, and if that's the case, that is great, why not stick with the smaller board.

My DW board makes a huge difference for me getting up in what passes for light wind here.

I didnt say that.
I am comparing a 6'5x20 with a 7'4x18.5 And what I said is that a strapped ML is as good as a strapless DW. For me light wind is 8-9kt

And I can talk because I own them both thus I have probably a bit more experience and knowledge than you in comparing them.

You can keep your dw board and be happy.

Something that I have come to terms with, also having done the DW board and midlength, is that the DW board is clearly better, but my skill with a midlength can make up for the difference.

The Armstrong ML more accurately matches a small DW board dims anyway.

I had to catch myself because after winging a DW board for a whole season, then a narrowish shortish midlength for a season, and now a true midlength for a season, I was telling people that my Sunova Carver 85l was just as capable as my DW board. While it may be true, it's come from 8000 kilometers of experience and the average person can't hop on a midlength and replicate the results. It takes time to develop the skillset. Similar to people who chased the sinker game down to tiny sizes saying "oh yeah my 40l takes off just as well as my 80l" had simply lost perspective over time.

Generically, DW boards are more capable for the average person to hop on than ML. However, with time and experience a midlength is nearly as capable but simply more fun in the air for active riding.

BWalnut what technique do you use for starting on your Carver, something along the lines of stinkbug start?Any tips for making riding a true midlength board easier e.g pumping technique etc?Thanks

BWalnut said..

WindWaterSailAU said..

BWalnut said..

SlowlyButSurely said..

kook123 said..

Taavi said..

SlowlyButSurely said..

Particularly for winging, I can see a scenario where these long (>7ft) boards are no longer chosen.

Sure, if there is enough wind, but that's the thing - low wind winging seems to mean very different things for people.

This...I see plenty of people saying they can get up in light wind just as easy on their 5'8" 60L as on their 7'6" 120L, and if that's the case, that is great, why not stick with the smaller board.

My DW board makes a huge difference for me getting up in what passes for light wind here.

I didnt say that.
I am comparing a 6'5x20 with a 7'4x18.5 And what I said is that a strapped ML is as good as a strapless DW. For me light wind is 8-9kt

And I can talk because I own them both thus I have probably a bit more experience and knowledge than you in comparing them.

You can keep your dw board and be happy.

Something that I have come to terms with, also having done the DW board and midlength, is that the DW board is clearly better, but my skill with a midlength can make up for the difference.

The Armstrong ML more accurately matches a small DW board dims anyway.

I had to catch myself because after winging a DW board for a whole season, then a narrowish shortish midlength for a season, and now a true midlength for a season, I was telling people that my Sunova Carver 85l was just as capable as my DW board. While it may be true, it's come from 8000 kilometers of experience and the average person can't hop on a midlength and replicate the results. It takes time to develop the skillset. Similar to people who chased the sinker game down to tiny sizes saying "oh yeah my 40l takes off just as well as my 80l" had simply lost perspective over time.

Generically, DW boards are more capable for the average person to hop on than ML. However, with time and experience a midlength is nearly as capable but simply more fun in the air for active riding.

BWalnut what technique do you use for starting on your Carver, something along the lines of stinkbug start?Any tips for making riding a true midlength board easier e.g pumping technique etc?Thanks

Good question.

I'm 87kg and just do a standard knee start. 85l 5'10"x20" Carver I've done it in 12 knots, light and flat with a 4m and I've done it in outrageous 62 knots with breaking swell and a 2m. So, no stinkbug for me. I get to my knees on the board and find the balance point while leaning on the wing as it is laid across the nose of my board. When I lift the wing off my board it gets into my hands FAST which is the key. I need to make a little video showing a few nuanced details to help out. I'll do that when I publish my midlength article.

For the takeoff, it helps if you have sup surfed or sup foiled to get the absolute most out of your low end. I use everything from river current, to swell push, and of course standard board and wing pumping. I'm also patient and wait for a gust. For 20 knots and above I ride a Silk 650 with a 4m until it hits 25 knots then I drop to 3m. For lighter winds I'm on a Silk 1050 and have an Ultra 750 on order. Typically 4m under 20 knots but I can make the 3m work with the 1050 if I'm patient.

I usually give the wing 2 pumps to generate board speed and feel out the wind, if it's right, then I start my leg pump and go hard until I am up and flying.

Does that all make sense?

Thanks - some good tip's there.Is your board facing downind or perpendicular to the wind when you are initially kneeling with the wing across the nose of the board ?

I'd still be trying to use the stink bug method myself. I use this from sinkers even up to longer DW boards. More stable setup and brings the nose out of the water (for the sinker) quicker. Once on knees with wing in hand then follow the above which is really sound advice.

Taavi said..
4.6 m2 wing, 92 litres KT Super K, a fast foil, and pretty accurate wind readings (with that wind direction) from a station next to the lake.

The Super K is so crazy. And good technique helps My wife has a 6'6 AK Nomad 90L. Easier to taxi when the wind drops to zero, but later on foil than my Super K 6'1 80L. What foil did you use?

NikOnFoil said..

Taavi said..
4.6 m2 wing, 92 litres KT Super K, a fast foil, and pretty accurate wind readings (with that wind direction) from a station next to the lake.

The Super K is so crazy. And good technique helps My wife has a 6'6 AK Nomad 90L. Easier to taxi when the wind drops to zero, but later on foil than my Super K 6'1 80L. What foil did you use?

On flat water in really light wind conditions I am using the Sabfoil Leviathan PRO 1260 (1227 cm2) front wing, with a bit heavier but super thin and super rigid Red Devil race mast (12.5 mm). That thing has an incredible speed in really marginal winds.

And in the waves I am with a smaller KT Super K (60 L), and either with a 630 or 750 or 850 cm2 foil, depending on the wave conditions. Sabfoil Piuma setup that's around 2.8 kg, i.e. much much lighter, more meant for prone foiling than for hard core freestyle and jumping, also with a super thin 12.5 mm mast, and this setup just glides in really really small bumps already.

Taavi said..

NikOnFoil said..

Taavi said..
4.6 m2 wing, 92 litres KT Super K, a fast foil, and pretty accurate wind readings (with that wind direction) from a station next to the lake.

The Super K is so crazy. And good technique helps My wife has a 6'6 AK Nomad 90L. Easier to taxi when the wind drops to zero, but later on foil than my Super K 6'1 80L. What foil did you use?

On flat water in really light wind conditions I am using the Sabfoil Leviathan PRO 1260 (1227 cm2) front wing, with a bit heavier but super thin and super rigid Red Devil race mast (12.5 mm). That thing has an incredible speed in really marginal winds.

And in the waves I am with a smaller KT Super K (60 L), and either with a 630 or 750 or 850 cm2 foil, depending on the wave conditions. Sabfoil Piuma setup that's around 2.8 kg, i.e. much much lighter, more meant for prone foiling than for hard core freestyle and jumping, also with a super thin 12.5 mm mast, and this setup just glides in really really small bumps already.

what stab are you using with the LP 1260? Have you tried different ones? I just picked one up for super light wind and dockstarting (already have a 1350)

thanks Taavi I actually have a 376 bolted on there right now

pacoz said..

Taavi said..
4.6 m2 wing, 92 litres KT Super K, a fast foil, and pretty accurate wind readings (with that wind direction) from a station next to the lake.

Impressive. How much do you weigh? I can't decide between 92l and 104l at 82kgs, riding gusty lakes..

@pacoz Thanks! I'm 72 kg, and have used the 60 L (a lot), and also the 70 and 92 sizes (just a couple of days with both). If I would have to choose just one board for everything (waves and flat water included) I would probably choose the 80 L Super K. That would mean a significant loss of light wind performance though, and also some of the playfulness that comes with the smallest sizes.

The 92 L would also work as a fun light wind board, for a place where the wind shuts off every now and then (like it does on our lake), but the 95 L 6'9'' Dragonfly has still superior light wind performance for me - gets going easier, pumps easier, is more lively in the air. And with the dragonfly I can use smaller foils, which would not be that important on flat water, but in the waves the smaller foils are just so much nicer to ride than the too powerful high aspect foils like the sab 1260.

So my dream set that I find works the best in my conditions continues to be 60 L Super K (5'9'' x 19.5'') + Dragonfly 95 (6'9'' x 18.5''). Hope that helps.

Some info from a different weight class 188x97kg :I have Sunova Casey Elite 7.6x23x137l for supfoil and DW supfoil+ very light wind winging, an AK PHazer5.6x27x90l and bought after demoing different boards the SuperK 6.5x22x 92l So for me its minus 5+wetsuit etc. Foils: AFS Pure1100+ Silk1050 and 850, riding strapless, wings from 5.5 to 3m The cheesiest and honest thing I can say is that the board is Super!
The glide/acceleration is phenomenal. As soon as you sit on your knees the board already starts to get going, its way more stable for me as the 5.6 Phazer and the other boards I tried. That wider tail and extra length does wonders.Bonus: when I have a touch down it easily bounches up.I prefer it in surfing although I can imganine that in more wind and small waves the Phazer might feel more agile due less swingweight. So far I haven,t seen conditions like that and it has been more wider turns waves instead of very short close to the pocket kinda riding.

Compared to some other boards, and please keep in mind that I ride strapless, so I have no clue about foot strap positionsAFS Whitebird 6.8x23x115l. The AFS floats me better obviously but I didnt had the feel that it got me quicker in the foil, and in side chop the AFS was harder to balance for me (maybe because of the thicker rails catching wind?Cab Swift 6.3x20x100l. ...as most women would tell you..2inches make a lot of differences In this case in stability. I think the Swift is an excellent board and it glides quickly, but in lightwind serious chop it is for me a B#tch to get on.

Sab Torpedo 100l 6.3x19.90: the one that felt the smallest to me. Least swingweight in the nose, most agile feel and it could easily be my highwind board if it was more stable for me 19.9 is just not wide enough and with touch downs in a bottom turn its more eager to suck in/ not to release as the KT.