BWalnut said..
Pros and cons for sure. Some people will report that sinkers really help them in choppy conditions. I, on the other hand, at 86kg have no problem on a 90l but find a 66l to be mildly harder but not extremely worse.

I think it really comes down to what type of stabilization most people are comfortable with. Add in starting technique and kit priorities to get different reports. I never stinkbug, even on tiny boards, I just kneel on the board with the wing across the deck (forming a plus sign) and am incredibly stable in that position. Then I snap the wing up into my hands and am off to the races. The low volume midlength boards are great in strong winds but the neutral volume boards have much better slog, prone paddle, low end characteristics.

So, you might consider going to a longer board. A 5' 85l board is going to be far less stable than a 6' 85l board because the fore to aft stabilization needs are dramatically decreased.

Thanks for this tip. I have recently bought a Smik Stok'r Breeze (6' x 19.5" 85L) and there has definitely been some teething problems learning to take off in heavy chop compared to my old wide board.
Until recently, my go to method has been to get to my knees with one hand on the leading edge of the wing positioned close to rail of the board. This acted like a stabilising out-rigger. Then quickly raise the wing and try to get up to my feet once I had good forward motion. This method was quite successful though I would still occasionally get rolled by the chop when getting the wing into my hands.
I tried your method yesterday, and it worked beautifully. Point downwind, wing at right angle across the nose of the board, lift the wing and sweep it towards the rear of the board to bring it side on to the wind and I was away and riding. Great hack. Thanks.

camerongraham said..

DukeSilver said..

BWalnut said..
Pros and cons for sure. Some people will report that sinkers really help them in choppy conditions. I, on the other hand, at 86kg have no problem on a 90l but find a 66l to be mildly harder but not extremely worse.

I think it really comes down to what type of stabilization most people are comfortable with. Add in starting technique and kit priorities to get different reports. I never stinkbug, even on tiny boards, I just kneel on the board with the wing across the deck (forming a plus sign) and am incredibly stable in that position. Then I snap the wing up into my hands and am off to the races. The low volume midlength boards are great in strong winds but the neutral volume boards have much better slog, prone paddle, low end characteristics.

So, you might consider going to a longer board. A 5' 85l board is going to be far less stable than a 6' 85l board because the fore to aft stabilization needs are dramatically decreased.

Thanks for this tip. I have recently bought a Smik Stok'r Breeze (6' x 19.5" 85L) and there has definitely been some teething problems learning to take off in heavy chop compared to my old wide board.
Until recently, my go to method has been to get to my knees with one hand on the leading edge of the wing positioned close to rail of the board. This acted like a stabilising out-rigger. Then quickly raise the wing and try to get up to my feet once I had good forward motion. This method was quite successful though I would still occasionally get rolled by the chop when getting the wing into my hands.
I tried your method yesterday, and it worked beautifully. Point downwind, wing at right angle across the nose of the board, lift the wing and sweep it towards the rear of the board to bring it side on to the wind and I was away and riding. Great hack. Thanks.

DukeSilver

Same Same, Im on a STOKR Breeze 85l and had to remind myself to stay pointed downwind today, no swell or chop, but the technique Bryan demonstrated really helped minimise the times I got rolled. The lack of any buoyancy in the nose on this board does make it a challenge, but hey, once you're up they are so good to throw around, Im just "powder snowboarding" even on flat water every session, laying over into the wind as hard as I can driving the board down then letting it pop back up and flicking it back downwind on the rising mast, level out briefly and do it all over again...

Im actually looking forward to getting out into some decent open ocean swell and wind chop again to see if I cement the technique in trickier conditions...

Yep they are a fantastic board. I love mine. A couple of gentle pumps of the wing and I'm up and riding compared to the blunt nosed barge I had been persisting with for years. How is your stance on the board with the Go Foil? The front wing looks way forward of the mast.

Hi guys!
Another perspective is how low u can go in volume. I used my pronefoil today for wing. Old lethal Gong 54l... Start wasn't a problem. I am 95kg and normally use 85l and 75l.it was very windy and I used a 3.5 Handwing. What u guys think? Does it all come down to what foil and Handwing u use?

Yeah... This 54l today was Surprising stable while Kneeling on it. I would say 20 to 30 cm under water. Chop was not that high as it was on a lake. But it is 5'4" in length and i heard it's getting unstable when shorter. I wonder how light the wind can be with that board.

Most people overestimate the amount of power it takes to get a -15-20 sinker with an efficient shape to the surface. If you have good technique, it takes no more power to get that board to the surface than it takes to pump it onto foil. You shouldn't need to oversize your gear for a board of that size as long as it is an efficient shape. People are oversizing their volume to compensate for technique.

Velocicraptor said..
Most people overestimate the amount of power it takes to get a -15-20 sinker with an efficient shape to the surface. If you have good technique, it takes no more power to get that board to the surface than it takes to pump it onto foil. You shouldn't need to oversize your gear for a board of that size as long as it is an efficient shape. People are oversizing their volume to compensate for technique.

I agree that patience and good technique get you up well on those liters with the right shape but there are other factors to consider too. Slogging and in some ways personal safety is definitely decreased on a -15 to -20. Some places have gustier and holier winds so you end up waiting longer. So, yes, some might be compensating for technique but I think they also consider the other variables in their overall board choice.

Sinker needs to be 50% of your weight in volume or even less volume. A full sinker with feet in the straps and board under water is less affected by super big chop but still something to learn and you need to be at least in mid range of your wing and +. It's more physical if wind is gusty.

a semi-sinker is coarky and if also short, it's less stable than a longer semi-sinker. The diff?rence is you need to keep the board stable on 2 axes instead of just one for a longer board.

NordRoi said..
Sinker needs to be 50% of your weight in volume or even less volume. A full sinker with feet in the straps and board under water is less affected by super big chop but still something to learn and you need to be at least in mid range of your wing and +. It's more physical if wind is gusty.

a semi-sinker is coarky and if also short, it's less stable than a longer semi-sinker. The diff?rence is you need to keep the board stable on 2 axes instead of just one for a longer board.

That means 55l is to much for me with 95kg? Are there any recommendations for length? What is to short?

Grantmac said..
I'm curious about a beginner kitefoil board around 30L for flat water use. My current sinker is 65L, 5'5" and hard to balance but easy to ride once its at the surface. I'm 93kg plus a bunch of neoprene for reference.

At 86kg I used a 37.5l for a bit and it wasn't worth it to me. Pretty fun when flagged out and pumping around but it required so much extra sail to get off the water it was a no-go for me. I couldn't see significant enough benefits in that board to justify the larger sail and foil.

At -15 liters, my board was very frustrating, in the beginning, to get to my knees and the wing over head. The board is 4'8x 24". I did get used to it though and it's no problem now even in rough conditions. It has plenty of volume to slog back to the beach. It sounds like a -30 liter board might not be much harder. Especially with a little more length.

I'm 78kgs but have 5/4 hooded suit due to 0C air/water so weight is over 80kgs. Anyhow, I just got Appleslice v3 60L, which is 5'0 x 21,5. I think one should also take into account the length of the board as the shorter the harder even though the litres are the same. Hence affecting to the usable wind range of the wings, ie. need to be at the upper range or use the full range of the wing. I would hate to be too powered up when the wind picks up a bit from the start due to having a board needing upper range of the wing. For me, in choppy waters, -20L is very doable. 75% of my BW that is.

I'm riding pretty much neutral at 72L. I did try a 54L in around 13-15kn and had a good time once up on foil (1240 ), but getting started in the chop was a pain and I'm not sure I'd be wanting the same struggle or waiting for gusts all the time.

Pretty sure it would be much easier with foot straps?? How many sinker riders do ( or don't use ), foot straps?

Jeroensurf said..

No its not.I,m 95kg on a very good day/when we runned out of cookies and chocolate, now with 5mm hooded suit etc 100/103kg and really like my KT Wingdrifter 5.4x22x56l in solid 20knots and gusts above with AFS 850 and 1050 foils. I tried smaaler and that made it for me harder to start...imo mainly due the lack of length but that comes with lower volume (the 5.4 is allready pretty thin).That said, when its short period chaos, onshorish I rather grab my 6.5x22x92l SuperK just because its soo much easier to slog on, push through acouple of waves and then get on the foil instead of sinking the seccond I lose sped on the 56l.btw, I ride always strapless

Running out of cookies and chocolate is the worst!

What wing would you use with the 56l and 850 when it's solid 20 knots? I have't explored sinkers of that ratio too much but ride those foils so I'd love to hear what wing you need!

LucasUK said..

omg said..
I'm 78kgs but have 5/4 hooded suit due to 0C air/water so weight is over 80kgs. Anyhow, I just got Appleslice v3 60L, which is 5'0 x 21,5. I think one should also take into account the length of the board as the shorter the harder even though the litres are the same. Hence affecting to the usable wind range of the wings, ie. need to be at the upper range or use the full range of the wing. I would hate to be too powered up when the wind picks up a bit from the start due to having a board needing upper range of the wing. For me, in choppy waters, -20L is very doable. 75% of my BW that is.

how do u find the appleslice v3 ? thinking about it as its bit wider the armstrong ML

Only ridden it two times so far, and in the upper range (def. not nearly overpowered) of the 3m Unit SLS, so cannot really comment on the low end of the board other than that the board gets up to speed really quickly and on to foil then. Side wise very stable. My other board is Armstrong 6'3 x 18,75 85L for light/medium winds (however it works very well in surprisingly heavy winds). I'm a tall dude, 190cm x 78kgs, so I wondered beforehand how's the stability length wise, and first couple of times it wasn't super easy but once I found out where my knees need to be, it helped a lot. It is a bit unstable length wise for me, but I would guess shorter people this would be less of an issue (the taller the higher the center of gravity). Now I installed the straps but haven't ridden it with them, but to my mind this sized board (at least for me with Armstrong) is made to be ridden with straps.

Construction is nice; I accidentally hit the board to the rocks while carrying the board before going to the water, and for normal structured board that would have been it, but with the closed cell foam I was fine to go out. I'm a bit puzzled that the board is black but should be ok with the sun, but will take it to shade as much as possible.

Footstraps placements are nice; I can get an offset for back foot and multiple options for front foot. Board is not the lightest being 5,05kg, but seems to be stiff like Armstrong when pumping.

Waveriding wise the outline looks to be good; although wider than my Armstrong, I didn't have any problems with the rails touching water while turning.

Grantmac said..
I'm curious about a beginner kitefoil board around 30L for flat water use. My current sinker is 65L, 5'5" and hard to balance but easy to ride once its at the surface. I'm 93kg plus a bunch of neoprene for reference.

I met a kitefoiler who also winged his 20l? board. He said he needed 2.5m depth to start.