With summer just around the corner we are looking into getting air conditioning in the house. Have normally been happy to deal with warm days and nights but having a new family and having the wife at home for extended periods of time that perspective has now been altered.

Hoping others could give me a perspective on how they have found the main different types of cooling systems ie: evaporative v's refrigerative and what they have found good/bad about them eg. cost, maintenance, ability to cool...

Cheers

When in perth,we stop at a relatives house who has refrigerated reverse cycle ducted.
in summer its too noisy, the temp goes up and down , really horrible and you'll get a power bill to match. we usually block off the duct into the room and open the window, to keep the temps more even.
Here in dry kalgoorlie we have evaporative ducted, which is great till you get a humid night.

evap all the way if you live near the coast.
The best thing with evap is in the evenings just turn the water off and run the fan.
leave a few windows slightly open to let the air flow through.
Your house will be cool as plus you sleep better as you have been breathing fresh air all night.Not like that fake dry your throat out refrig air

Refrigerated is good because it always works no matter what the outside conditions.

Ducted refrigerated is expensive, both to install and run. You have to have ducts in your ceiling for the cooling.

Reverse cycle is relatively cheap and efficient and very common and you can just cool the areas that need it. You have an ugly thing on your wall.

If you have a two story house you only need coolers in the upstairs rooms. The cool rolls down the stairs and cools the whole house.

All the houses near me have evaporative air conditioners and they run their f'ucking fans all summer long. I would blow them up if I could, inconsiderate sh'its.

If it gets humid then evaporative is useless and it uses heaps of water.

I have ducted refrigerated (because it was in the house when I bought it). The heating and cooling use the same ducts and the upstairs rolls along the floor and down the stairs so upstairs gets hot. The upstairs stays reasonably cool if I keep all the door closed.

The best thing we have done is to install a ceiling fan in the bedroom. It's quiet, cheap to run, doesn't rely on sealing up the house before it gets hot. We can keep our windows shut on hot nights and keep out the noise of all these f'ucking air conditioners.

I have explored all the passive solar cooling methods (ceiling ducts, whirlybirds, etc). They make a little bit of difference (2 degrees) but they're not as effective as air conditioning.

Having lived in hot climates - Karratha & Christmas Island, for many years we are used to using the refrigerative systems. A bonus was that both times our electricitiy bill was subsidised. Admittedly we ran the systems 24/7 for months during the hot/wet months.

Now living in Bunbury the weather is considerably different and looking around there are plenty of houses with the evaporative box on the roof.

The only main draw backs I can see with evap is:
- the ineffiency of operation during humid days
- high use of water
- potential noise

Positives:
- more natural air
- cool air fills rooms better
- cost of running is cheaper
- cheaper to service??
- cheaper to buy and install

Big question is how many humid days we have in Bunbury?

getfunky said...

If going for refrig stay away from Fujitsu.

They simply do not honour their warranties or the work of their agents. They charged like wounded bulls to fix our unit twice under warranty ($900 and $200 respectively).

Was not happy and fought it but ultimately had the choice of paying them(at extortionist rates) or get one of their agents in as a supplier on our own.. or give up on the dodgy Fujitsu. No win situation.

Our unit was playing up again today. In summer it gets used sporadically (once or twice a week, but most nights in winter for warming). In hot summer conditions (duh.. what we got the fkr for) it has been lots of trouble.


I would NEVER purchase a Fujitsu again and their excuse for a warranty is a bad joke that trades on their ill-founded good rep. Tubby 'plasvision' Taylor can get knotted.



As far refrig goes they are awesome and efficant heaters in winter. as for cooling they are great (hmm.. when working) but very inefficiant compared to evap - until it gets humid. Humidity makes the refrig work a lot harder but you get much better relief than an evap in the same humidity.

In summer I prefer fans for sleeping, unless it is a heatwave, then it gets used more and also at night.

It helps that we live near the coast and have good exposure to the seabreeze so opening the house/windows in the late arvo and allowing the SWester to pass through makes a big diff. Naturally good heat relief.

Small claim tribunal, that’s the only answer. Most cases when its shown the purchase price, the time used which by sounds of it is very short in hours on the unit, against the purchase price, its ruled in your favour.
Plus WA legality, the outlet who takes money for any item, must warrant that item, not move this back onto the manufacturer. What the outlet does behind the scene with the manufacture, is no concern too you the purchaser. Hit em hard with aggressive negotiation at the store, and don’t take any bull crap!!!!

forgot to mention that you will need to check the instructions on a refrigerated reverse cycle as some of them ( friends have a F*j*t*SU) need to have extra protection wired in for power surges and brown outs.
When it kept shutting down on a really hot day, the service man who came out, whipped out a Thermometer, said it is too hot for the unit and that it would automatically start up when the external temperature dropped back below 36 c.
They ended up building a "coolgardie safe of wooden framing and shade cloth , like a big hood and would sit wet towels and a piece of matress foam on top so the water would run down the shade cloth and evaporatively cool the air around the unit

You want to get all your facts straight then go back to Fujitsu and tell them to fix it or you'll take it to the Small Claims Tribunal (or whatever equivalent you have in WA).

Under Australian law products have to be fit for purpose (an airconditioner that can't handle 36 degrees?), of merchantable quality (it has to work reliably), and be perform as described in the sales material (you said it would make me cool). The threat has always worked every time I have had a problem.

BTW Tradies. When I was at school if you were smart you were put in the science stream. If you were not too bright you would go in the business stream. If you were really dumb or a criminal they put you in the trades stream.

Every now and then some of the smartest guys disappeared from the science stream and ended up in the trade stream. Bump into them a few years later and they have taken over the family plumbing or electrical or building business, or they're some kind of specialist diesel mechanic and they're squillionaires.

So, how do you get a tradie to do some work and know that you're getting one of the good ones and not one of the crims or the stupid ones?

It's now out of warranty unfortunately (1st issues were at the 3.5 yr mark). It had an aledged 5 yr warranty but that expired recently.

Honestly the amount of hassle and grey hairs I have been through over similar issues often doesn't add up. Ta for the advice tho Gorgo, i prob should have pursed that avenue a year ago when it was still under warranty but after chaning out the aledged problematic parts I have been hoping for no repeat.

I whacked together a shade cloth over above (but clear) the unit this morning so we shall see how it goes.

BTW the outdoor unit was one (re-occurring) prob and the distribution/fan unit in the ceiling the other - that was the very exxy number... and in fairness that part is going ok.. so far.


Fush1tsu: "Yada yada brown power..Yada yada agent put unsuitable unit in. Yada yada yada.. Give us your money for a warranty repair!"

Mental note to self "Never buy again.. and kick Tubby Taylor right in the jatz crackers if i ever get the chance." "How's ya kn Plasvision now fat boy!?"

Install tradie will get 2 kicks in the nutz if i ever see him again.[}:)]

I'd be pretty happy to be smart or rich.



Er.. finally to all tradies out there I'm not trying to generalise and bash ALL tradies. This install guy was absolutely kn useless. He ripped the sh!tter out of our freshly polished floor boards, 2 ducting pipes fell off within a year (spewing cool air into our ceiling until i belatedly realised) and he didn't bother to cross brace the ceiling between beams where the ceiling unit went. This cost us a further $500 when 'warranty work guys' fkd our ceiling but refused to take responsibility - pointing again to usless install guy. Kn hell?! [}:)]

Just hope it's cool when i get home tonight.

Glad it's not all misery for all Fj owners GPA. I still won't go back and got stooged at all points.

Yeh - we all love cheap affordable Chinese/Taiwanese (and some Korean) made gear... until it fks up and makes life VERY difficult.

Hard to go past a good price tho. I'm slowly learning. (Coz I'm a slow learner )

Most people make the same mistake when buying an eggonishner.
They buy the one which is only just big enough for the job, usually because the next one up is another thousand dollars or so.
That's false economy and will always lead to dissatisfaction and tears.

If it is only just big enough for the job, it means on a hot day, it is running flat strap all day rather than cycling on and off. Nothing lasts long under those conditions.
They are also not very efficient under those conditions because under continous operation with no 'off' periods, the outside condenser and compressor end up running at a higher temperature and therefore higher head pressures in the compressor unit.

When you select the unit, find what the minimum requirement is and then add 50%. You can even double it.
An oversize unit running at low power is much cheaper to run than a 'just big enough' unit running flat strap. Specially if it's an inverter type. And that's the ONLY type to consider getting. Don't waste your money on the old non inverter type. They are noisier and less efficient.
Also I agree with whoever said Daikin were the ants pants, the beez neez and the ducks nuts. Mine is as quiet as a mouse. My only complaint after 5 years is that it's so quiet, when I leave the house I forget that it's still on.

back to original question what's best.
By the sounds of it all the replys go with evap.It just a simple water pump and fan not much can go wrong with that.
I was lucky and had and old system given to me and just fitted brand new ducting and vents.the systems prob around 15years old.Just fitted new filters on it this year for $320 runs like new.
How humid does Perth really get anyway
last night justed turned the water of as it was to cold and just ran the fan, slept like a baby
By the sounds of the refrig systems i cant imagine getting 15-20years out of one

My vote is for evap. Cost of running a refrigerative is prohibitive, particularly if you consider that electricity prices will prob be 50% higher in 3-4 years!!

If you want information on humidity bom.gov.au, go to weather and climate and type in bunbury. Bunbury is a dry climate and trawling through last year there was not one day where the temperature was 30+ with humidity above 50% at 3pm. If you lived in Brissy, different story.

Had the bloke over this afternoon to give us a measure up - looks like we're going in the direction of evap. By all accounts they are cheaper to install and run - will deal with the humid days by hanging out in the pool or going to beach.

New system evap also has the inverter technology (Breezeair) - so should be cheaper again.

Total cost to install - $6500

Bottom line - happy wife, happy life

arancini said...

be carefull if building a "shade" over the condensing, (outdoor unit) the reason refig systems struggle in the heat is primarily due to air recirculation, the discharge air from the front of the outdoor unit is discharged most of the time directly into the fence thats less then a meter away, resulting in the hot air, (which is the removed heat from indoors) being recirculated onto the back of the condensing unit resulting in much higher conditions then the ambient. Most units in these locations can be improved by fitting air diverters which help the hot air "escape" to atmosphere.

If you really want your unit to perform when its hot just run a water pipe, (hose) to the back of the outdoor unit, where the air is sucked in and set up a fine spray that sprays onto the coil, this wil assist the cooling of the condensor and much improve the effect indoors and reduce the running cost, these simple systems can be purchased and can be thermostaically contorolled.

so set up an evaporative , water using system to keep your refrig unit working.
now that deserves a WTF

Funny- as an AC mechanic my dealings with fujitsu have been great, Daikin woeful.

With the new gear kicking around it is hard to go past mitsubishi heavy industries for their wall hung splits- best out there by a long shot now I reckon.

With your evap checkout the hushpower model from Seeley- a drum fan will be much quieter if you are worried about noise and this technology really does make them whisper quiet. Best thing about an evap is on those hot days you can open the house up and enjoy a cool seabreeze !!!!!