Here is the letter he has written to Gordon Brown explaining his reasons why;

"Dear Mr. Brown,

I am writing to you as a serving soldier in the British army to express my views and concerns on the current conflict in Afghanistan.

It is my primary concern that the courage and tenacity of my fellow soldiers has become a tool of American foreign policy. I believe this unethical short-changing of such proud men and women has caused immeasurable suffering not only to families of British service personnel who have been killed and injured, but also to the noble people of Afghanistan.

I have seen qualities in the Afghan people which have also been for so long apparent and admired in the British soldier. Qualities of robustness, humour, utter determination and unwillingness to take a step backwards. However it is these qualities, on both sides, which I fear will continue to cause a state of attrition. These will only lead to more heartbreak within both our societies.

I am not a general nor am I a politician and I cannot claim any mastery of strategy. However, I am a soldier who has served in Afghanistan, which has given me some small insight.

I believe that when British military personnel submit themselves to the service of the nation and put their bodies into harm's way, the government that sends them into battle is obliged to ensure that the cause is just and right, i.e. for the protection of life and liberty.

The war in Afghanistan is not reducing the terrorist risk, far from improving Afghan lives it is bringing death and devastation to their country. Britain has no business there.
I do not believe that our cause in Afghanistan is just or right. I implore you, Sir, to bring our soldiers home.

Yours sincerely,

Joe Glenton
Lance/Corporal, Royal Logistics Corps"




www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/aug/03/british-army-alleged-deserter-court

thats one opinion whos to decide whether its the right one or not? maybe allah will decide or a terrorist who cuts an innocent persons head off with a sword will decide. they are there fighting terrorist and yes terrorist are also involved with civilians.[}:)]**** happens?

Carantoc said...

petermac33 said...



I do not believe that our cause in Afghanistan is just or right.

So what war has ever been just or right ?

Gee let me see

Maybe going to europe in WW2 to protect those who were invaded, with the Jewry slaughtered, by Nazi Germany?
Is it right to go help fellow humans? I think so. That was just and right, surely?

Anyway as they say...

War does not decide who is right.
War decides only who is left.

Mark _australia said...

Carantoc said...

petermac33 said...



I do not believe that our cause in Afghanistan is just or right.

So what war has ever been just or right ?

Gee let me see

Maybe going to europe in WW2 to protect those who were invaded, with the Jewry slaughtered, by Nazi Germany?
Is it right to go help fellow humans? I think so. That was just and right, surely?

Anyway as they say...

War does not decide who is right.
War decides only who is left.

None of the Allies fought the Germans to save the Jews or the other groups persecuted by National Socialist Germany who are sort of forgotten.

They fought for their own self interested reasons and dressed it up in high sounding moral terms like every government does when they send young men off to kill people in the name of the state.

I don't know if Joe Glenton is the bravest soldier in Afghanistan. Who knows all the combatants over there? Personally I think its moronic to be fighting over in Afghanistan. What is the fighting for? Unless they kill all the Afghans and leave it a wasteland the western armies will lose.

Where is osama bin laden?

We went there to fight alqeda (don't know the spellin) and international terrorism but now find ourselves fighting the taliban in a civil war.

Best keep the war going so the current govt doesn't have to loose the war and it can be the next government's problem. Or at least create a big marketing campaign to convince us we have won so we can walk out with our heads held high.

Little Jon said...

Where is osama bin laden?

Took the US 9 years to find the Uni-bomber, and he was living and working in the USA.

Imagine how long it will take them to find Bin-Laden.

Best way is probably tell the US tax department he didn't file a return. Bet they would find him in 14 days.

GalahOnTheBay said...

Aside from the link in the original post being one from 2009, the topics raised are just as relevant today as they were then.

Some interesting from other members, but seeing you started this topic what's your view on the matter Petermac33?

Are you trying to get a discussion going about the rights / wrongs of the war?
Are you trying to get a discussion going about the moral stand of the soldier?
Are you trying to get a discussion going about the soldier being a "coward"?
Are you trying to get a discussion going about the bravery of the troops?
Are you trying to get a discussion going about the military culture?

Just a different angle on a CT I would think [}:)]

GalahOnTheBay said...

Aside from the link in the original post being one from 2009, the topics raised are just as relevant today as they were then.

Some interesting from other members, but seeing you started this topic what's your view on the matter Petermac33?

Are you trying to get a discussion going about the rights / wrongs of the war?
Are you trying to get a discussion going about the moral stand of the soldier?
Are you trying to get a discussion going about the soldier being a "coward"?
Are you trying to get a discussion going about the bravery of the troops?
Are you trying to get a discussion going about the military culture?

See, I told you

Good and good people exist.

Evil and evil people exist.

Good people who try to warn other good people about evil are quite often branded as crackpots or conspiracy theoricists.

Noah is a good example. I just can't understand why he put a pair of ostriches on the Ark.

When the flood ended and the ostrihces stepped off, they certainly entered into a prolific breeding program.

petermac33 said...

Here is the letter he has written to Gordon Brown explaining his reasons why;

"Dear Mr. Brown,

I am writing to you as a serving soldier in the British army to express my views and concerns on the current conflict in Afghanistan.

It is my primary concern that the courage and tenacity of my fellow soldiers has become a tool of American foreign policy. I believe this unethical short-changing of such proud men and women has caused immeasurable suffering not only to families of British service personnel who have been killed and injured, but also to the noble people of Afghanistan.

I have seen qualities in the Afghan people which have also been for so long apparent and admired in the British soldier. Qualities of robustness, humour, utter determination and unwillingness to take a step backwards. However it is these qualities, on both sides, which I fear will continue to cause a state of attrition. These will only lead to more heartbreak within both our societies.

I am not a general nor am I a politician and I cannot claim any mastery of strategy. However, I am a soldier who has served in Afghanistan, which has given me some small insight.

I believe that when British military personnel submit themselves to the service of the nation and put their bodies into harm's way, the government that sends them into battle is obliged to ensure that the cause is just and right, i.e. for the protection of life and liberty.

The war in Afghanistan is not reducing the terrorist risk, far from improving Afghan lives it is bringing death and devastation to their country. Britain has no business there.
I do not believe that our cause in Afghanistan is just or right. I implore you, Sir, to bring our soldiers home.

Yours sincerely,

Joe Glenton
Lance/Corporal, Royal Logistics Corps"




www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/aug/03/british-army-alleged-deserter-court

who is prime minister of the uk?

The link has 2009 in it... FFS

petermac33 said...


when a British soldier who has served in Aghanistan states the war is not 'just', it is considered a conspiracy theory.


Guess who coined the term conspiracy theory?

go figure.

unless I missed something-you are the first to mention conspiracy theory?

The Yanks never invaded europe. They did nothing officially 'till the Japs bombed their Pacific fleet, then they declared war on Japan, and by defualt also Germany.

Britain never 'invaded' Europe either. They fought to free France from German occupation, at the request of France. Probablyb the first time in 2,000 years Britian fought for french territory but did not 'invade'.

Well - they didn't 'invade' in the same sense of the 'coalition' invasion of Afganistan or Iraq.

One view maybe that Britain declared war because of treaties it held with Poland and when Germany invaded Poland, Britain had to act to uphold its treaties.

One view maybe that if it didn't act it would loose its spot of being the supreme world power. Although it could also be argued the Britain knew it would loose that position even if it won. Thus the motivation for war maybe more benevolent than the self interest that that argument portrays.

And, despite what my earlier comments may imply I would agree that, for the average solider fighting on the ground, it is easier to see 'righteousness' in fighting WWII than fighting during the current Iraq or Afganistan conflicts. - And in general all the soliders fighting overseas are braver than me, hiding in my back room.

Carantoc said...

The Yanks never invaded europe.

better go brush up on history then

dusta said...

Carantoc said...

The Yanks never invaded europe.

better go brush up on history then

So - if somebody was robbing your house and you phoned up the police and they come around and walked in the open front door, removed the person, returned your property and then left would you

- tell your mates down the pub the cops just invaded your house ?
- thank the police for returning what was yours ?

Point I was trying to make was the difference between the coalition of the willing 'invading' Afganistan and the allies 'liberating' Europe - with respect to the earlier comments regarding the comparision of rightousness of those two conflicts.


Invasion implies to me you do it against the will of the inhabitants or governers of that land.

I guess I would agree there may have been a US cultural invasion of Europe, and (without trying to sound as paranoid as the original poster of the thread) a clandestine capitalist invasion, but I wouldn't define the US's role in WWII to have been a forceful 'invasion' of Europe. That is what the Germans did, (and the British in many of their colonies), not what the allies did in WWII.

japie said...

People are so opinionated about war and their arguments cloud the issue.

War is out of your and my control.

It is controlled, but not by us.

Think about it. Every time we do something as one of the members of the Coalition of the Willing we end up clobbering people.

Now I am sure there are people on this forum who have used violence at one stage or another, but it is not in our nature to kill to resolve an issue.

This execration that happens on a daily basis is not in our interests. It is in the interests of the people who control the money that they invest in war.

They created a bad guy all over the world, and all over the world we are rubbing them out, and rubbing them up the wrong way, but then that is part of the plan.

Sorry, we created a bad guy all over the world? "it is in the interests of the people who control the money that they invest in war". That's a pretty basic idea of what goes on isn't it, yes there are companies and individuals who make money out of war but to suggest they "control" war is a bit funny.

visited my parents on Monday night, mum was sitting on edge of chair watching
730 report or Four Corners taking it all in.

the brainwashing that is.

a panel of five 'experts', not including the grey haired ABC presenter, debating the war in libya.


could not help notice all five were pro-war!

how can you have a debate with no opposing views ffs!

when i mentioned to my mother the horrific/disgusting consequences of firing a 1350 kilogram missile at 550mph, with a sophisticated explosive attached, the reply went something like this.


he's a b--tard! they are trying to save the people!

the depth of brainwashing is breathtaking! congrats on doing a fab job!

the both of them sit there everynight on the edge of their chairs, watching

the 'news',taking it all in, pretty much as gospel.

so very, very sad.

thankfully, ignorance on occasions can be bliss.


tried to mention Haarp to my dad the other day,the smirk on his face told me don't even bother.