Joe Glenton--The Bravest Soldier In Afghanistan?

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> 10 years ago

Shooting the breeze.

shark

361 posts

shark

WA, 361 posts

24 Mar 2011 8:36am

Carantoc said...
Point I was trying to make was the difference between the coalition of the willing 'invading' Afganistan and the allies 'liberating' Europe - with respect to the earlier comments regarding the comparision of rightousness of those two conflicts.

Invasion implies to me you do it against the will of the inhabitants or governers of that land.

"inhabitants or governers of that land."
and who were the governors of that land at the time?????

Cut and pasted off the interweb so it must be true....

"An invasion is a military offensive consisting of all, or large parts of the armed forces of one geopolitical entity aggressively entering territory controlled by another such entity, generally with the objective of either conquering, liberating or re-establishing control or authority over a territory, forcing the partition of a country, altering the established government or gaining concessions from said government"

While you are correct in the perceptions of "invasion", remember that a considerable number of Europeans were sympathetic to Nazis, a number which of course declined as the tide turned.
France in particular was a dilemma for the Allies at the end as it took several weeks I believe to decide which side they were on due to the fact that 1/2 of it was never occupied by Nazis yet functioned under Nazi control.

Which brings me to a joke

"Whats the Frenchs favorite saying?
I give up?
"your right!"

japie

NSW

7146 posts

japie

NSW, 7146 posts

24 Mar 2011 4:26pm

log man said...

japie said...

People are so opinionated about war and their arguments cloud the issue.

War is out of your and my control.

It is controlled, but not by us.

Think about it. Every time we do something as one of the members of the Coalition of the Willing we end up clobbering people.

Now I am sure there are people on this forum who have used violence at one stage or another, but it is not in our nature to kill to resolve an issue.

This execration that happens on a daily basis is not in our interests. It is in the interests of the people who control the money that they invest in war.

They created a bad guy all over the world, and all over the world we are rubbing them out, and rubbing them up the wrong way, but then that is part of the plan.

Sorry, we created a bad guy all over the world? "it is in the interests of the people who control the money that they invest in war". That's a pretty basic idea of what goes on isn't it, yes there are companies and individuals who make money out of war but to suggest they "control" war is a bit funny.

Have a read ot this, written by Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Recipient,Major General Smedley D. Butler, USMC, Retired, from the opening paragraphs of his book, War is a Racket.:

WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.

In the World War [I] a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows.

How many of these war millionaires shouldered a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them knew what it meant to go hungry in a rat-infested dug-out? How many of them spent sleepless, frightened nights, ducking shells and shrapnel and machine gun bullets? How many of them parried a bayonet thrust of an enemy? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle?

Out of war nations acquire additional territory, if they are victorious. They just take it. This newly acquired territory promptly is exploited by the few – the selfsame few who wrung dollars out of blood in the war. The general public shoulders the bill.

Not only is war driven by money, it is impossible without it.

That is why you and I can be conscripted but the money never is.

RPM

1549 posts

RPM

WA, 1549 posts

24 Mar 2011 4:09pm

petermac33 said...

Here is the letter he has written to Gordon Brown explaining his reasons why;

"Dear Mr. Brown,

I am writing to you as a serving soldier in the British army to express my views and concerns on the current conflict in Afghanistan.

It is my primary concern that the courage and tenacity of my fellow soldiers has become a tool of American foreign policy. I believe this unethical short-changing of such proud men and women has caused immeasurable suffering not only to families of British service personnel who have been killed and injured, but also to the noble people of Afghanistan.

I have seen qualities in the Afghan people which have also been for so long apparent and admired in the British soldier. Qualities of robustness, humour, utter determination and unwillingness to take a step backwards. However it is these qualities, on both sides, which I fear will continue to cause a state of attrition. These will only lead to more heartbreak within both our societies.

I am not a general nor am I a politician and I cannot claim any mastery of strategy. However, I am a soldier who has served in Afghanistan, which has given me some small insight.

I believe that when British military personnel submit themselves to the service of the nation and put their bodies into harm's way, the government that sends them into battle is obliged to ensure that the cause is just and right, i.e. for the protection of life and liberty.

The war in Afghanistan is not reducing the terrorist risk, far from improving Afghan lives it is bringing death and devastation to their country. Britain has no business there.
I do not believe that our cause in Afghanistan is just or right. I implore you, Sir, to bring our soldiers home.

Yours sincerely,

Joe Glenton
Lance/Corporal, Royal Logistics Corps"

www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/aug/03/british-army-alleged-deserter-court

In my experience in the Defence Forces (army).. Any lance corporal in Logistics is a storeman/box packer/blanket counter.. Hardly front line enough to see any action other than making coffee and eating decent food. Also with no more than 3 years service under his belt.. But if it makes himself feel good writing a letter to get his feeling of his chest then happy days.

Most regular arms corps soldiers would laugh at this retard. Soldiers, soldier and don't need to write articles. The real soldiers are the ones that are never heard of and do good stuff most days of their deployments into theatre. Strange enough most go to war because it's what they trained for and joined for. But a civvy wouldn't understand or believe this.

japie

NSW

7146 posts

japie

NSW, 7146 posts

24 Mar 2011 10:34pm

Our Department of Defense seems to do an awful lot of defending the same stuff the USA is defending. Should be called the department of offense cause it is not defending my beach from any threat. In fact all our conflicts appear to be that far from my beach that it takes a long time to get to them by plane.

So RPM, appreciate your fervor but it is misplaced and dare I say somewhat narrow.

Critical thinking is not at the forefront of military training I take it?

Bigwavedave

QLD

2057 posts

Bigwavedave

QLD, 2057 posts

24 Mar 2011 9:42pm

japie said...

Our Department of Defense seems to do an awful lot of defending the same stuff the USA is defending. Should be called the department of offense cause it is not defending my beach from any threat. In fact all our conflicts appear to be that far from my beach that it takes a long time to get to them by plane.

So RPM, appreciate your fervor but it is misplaced and dare I say somewhat narrow.

Critical thinking is not at the forefront of military training I take it?

Critical thinking has no place in the military. It would cause all sorts of problems and negate their training.

japie

NSW

7146 posts

japie

NSW, 7146 posts

24 Mar 2011 10:54pm

I thought as much

shark

361 posts

shark

WA, 361 posts

24 Mar 2011 8:32pm

japie said...

Our Department of Defense seems to do an awful lot of defending the same stuff the USA is defending. Should be called the department of offense cause it is not defending my beach from any threat. In fact all our conflicts appear to be that far from my beach that it takes a long time to get to them by plane.

So RPM, appreciate your fervor but it is misplaced and dare I say somewhat narrow.

Critical thinking is not at the forefront of military training I take it?

theyre the reason your sitting in front of your computer writing thinking and speaking english and not Kraut, japanese or some other foreign language. Once they reach your beach its probably too late.

japie

NSW

7146 posts

japie

NSW, 7146 posts

25 Mar 2011 11:07am

^^That comment may well have been appropriate 50 years ago but it is a tad silly to suggest that Afghanis and Iraqi's are an invasion threat.

Whereas we, on the other hand..........

GalahOnTheBay

NSW

4188 posts

GalahOnTheBay

NSW, 4188 posts

25 Mar 2011 3:23pm

^^^ On the money there Japie, and there's the rub.

Do as I say not as i do. Why? Because I have a bigger stick...

Little Jon

NSW

2115 posts

Little Jon

NSW, 2115 posts

25 Mar 2011 11:49pm

The communists are going to invade us!!! Bomb them quickly, we have to fight them there so we don't have to fight them here

RPM

1549 posts

RPM

WA, 1549 posts

29 Mar 2011 2:49pm

it might well be narrow.. But it's people like you that are the haters of the defence forces and the protesters who sit behind computers and critisise goverments when you really don't have much idea of the workings behind why they are there in the first place. Have you ever done military service? Participated in worthwhile peacekeeping to achieve an outcome? Soldiers go where the governments tell them to go. Also in regards to your comment that it takes a long time to get to these places by plane.. Did you think that the Anzacs at Gallipolli thought that way same as you? Or did they just cop it sweet and get on with it. There was probably conscript dodgers back then who thought like you do now. That's the problem these days with objective thinking pen pushers. They comment on things that they think they know about but really are so far off the mark it's not funny. What about if islamic extremists deceided to fly a qantas jet into the city where you live? Or blew up a major landmark? Would you still sit there and flap your mouth? Unless you have gone to the places/conflict zones then your comments really aren't worth the time it takes for you to write them.

japie

NSW

7146 posts

japie

NSW, 7146 posts

29 Mar 2011 10:39pm

^^Phew, hope you did not hold your breath when you wrote that, you would have gone blue in the face!

Classic example in reverse as to why they packed in conscription. Had to rid the ranks of too many thinkers. Obviously pretty sucessful with their indoctrination as well.

Islamic extremist flying a plane into my city? You must be a troll

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