I am desperately trying to find a Java role before my visa expires at the end of April 2015. I have over 15 years working in Java and enterprise development. Would be happy to take a reduced rate to start with so that I can hopefully prove my worth. I have done html / javascript dev too, but am a little rusty with these. Not an issue though as these skills are easy to pick up on the job again if required.

If you know of anything Perth or Sydney please pm me, and I will happily send over my resume.


Thanks

Tough crowd. I think Jn1 wasn't having a go at flanagaj but making a pun on the request for a java role in that java is another name for coffee.

Haha. In fact I think a job as a Barista would be more interesting!

Cheers

Mobydisc said..
Tough crowd. I think Jn1 wasn't having a go at flanagaj but making a pun on the request for a java role in that java is another name for coffee.

Yeah Flanagaj just a joke mate. I forgot the "". The phone rang just before hitting the send, so it never got a proper proof read.

I'm an ex-software developer ("programmer/analyst" in the old money). After a few frustrating years in the IT industry, I switched to electronics engineering in the late 90's and never looked back. So I know how you feel.

Just rereading my message now, there is some bolded text "In order to hit the ground running" (ie: grounded beans). I think this is the most funniest and accidental pun I have read this year . Sorry to pull a double joke

flanagaj said..
I am desperately trying to find a Java role before my visa expires at the end of April 2015. I have over 15 years working in Java and enterprise development. Would be happy to take a reduced rate to start with so that I can hopefully prove my worth. I have done html / javascript dev too, but am a little rusty with these. Not an issue though as these skills are easy to pick up on the job again if required.

If you know of anything Perth or Sydney please pm me, and I will happily send over my resume.


Thanks

What's wrong with Melbourne? More wind than Sydney.

All good trying to get a job, but I see asking for reduced pay as devaluing the profession. It would bbecome a slippery slope to the bottom of who is willing to be paid the least.
It's the same for all professionns, it'll be harder for the next guy to get paid what they are worth etc.

Dawn Patrol said..
All good trying to get a job, but I see asking for reduced pay as devaluing the profession. It would bbecome a slippery slope to the bottom of who is willing to be paid the least.
It's the same for all professionns, it'll be harder for the next guy to get paid what they are worth etc.

Bollocks. He is just trying to get a job.

In all seriousness do you really think one person offering to work for less will cause a whole backward step for those looking for work in the Java field?

1. It might get him a job - he just wants to stay and is running out of time - his options are reduced - so his price must come down to meet the market.

2. flanagaj is just one of many in what some would argue is a slightly more mature market place these days. If he was involved in the cutting edge or some new frontier then yes he may be able to have an influence on broader prices. But given what he has already stated this is not the case. And plus if he was - he certainly would not be posting here.

3.Economic theory depicts that someone in a monopoly /monopolistic situation has the potential to earn super profits and be choossie of their employee. Java programmers as a general rule lost this years ago. So it reverts back to a more perfect competition situation - lots of potential employers - but lots of competition for those jobs.

One individual does not devalue a profession. If you do not believe me watch the NRL and try and work out why it is getting increased followings each year and they players are getting paid more - despite the fact that it would seem that more are behaving like idiots in the public eye - maybe thank social media and more electronic devices . Yes riddle me that one.

4. Did you notice that the RBA cut rates last week ? Why do you think they did that? Being upfront that you are happy to take a cut is probably something that a vast amount of people are going to have to do going forward if things do not improve. The economy is showing genuine signs of slowing. Wake up.

5.He has also indicated that he is not too good at the pre-employment side of the equation - which reduces his options of selling himself. So by definition he must come down to meet the market in its present state.

Your last statement is a shocker. Do you really expect me to believe that you would hold out for an extra $3 an hour when you need a job to support your family and pay your mortgage just because you think its the right thing for your profession? Do you really think that this one individual has that much control over what everyone else is getting paid? Do you hold out for an extra $3,000 on your house sale because you feel for the other residents in your street and do not want them to feel let down? No - you will act in self interest. So why should flanagaj not? I most certainly would and I think most people do as a general rule - 90% plus easily. People like to talk a good game but at the end they always vote with the back pocket.

I started in IT support, switched to Forensic Computing, then retired from IT altogether and made the jump to CAD - never looked back.

Funniest personal IT support story, well programmers were always good with code but not so good with hardware. I was looking after macs back in the day (this'll age me) and they had a motorised floppy drive (very end of floppys, also had CD drives) so on the mac you just pushed the disk into the drive and it would suck it in. You dragged the floppy disk icon to the trash can and it would eject it. Ole mate the programmer puts in a ticket, floppy drive not ejecting disk. I open machine, no floppy drive. Just 8 or nine floppy disks jammed in the space, until the last one wouldn't fit between the others. Turns out his drive had been taken for replacement a few weeks ago, he'd forgotten and just been jamming disk after disk in the hole wondering why they wouldn't show up. The hole, with no floppy drive behind it, was at least 2cms high

Anyway flanagaj do your skills extend to Android games development? I've seen a few holes in the app market , can do the artwork/audio/organising (play store submission etc)/marketing (astroturfing, buying reviews, getting legit mentions on android sites etc) but I would need a programmer to do the other side of things. Probably not a great earner but if you can whack a few apps out there it's passive income and they don't have to involve massive coding. Just a thought anyway, PM me if interested..

kiteboy dave said..
I started in IT support, switched to Forensic Computing, then retired from IT altogether and made the jump to CAD - never looked back.

Funniest personal IT support story, well programmers were always good with code but not so good with hardware. I was looking after macs back in the day (this'll age me) and they had a motorised floppy drive (very end of floppys, also had CD drives) so on the mac you just pushed the disk into the drive and it would suck it in. You dragged the floppy disk icon to the trash can and it would eject it. Ole mate the programmer puts in a ticket, floppy drive not ejecting disk. I open machine, no floppy drive. Just 8 or nine floppy disks jammed in the space, until the last one wouldn't fit between the others. Turns out his drive had been taken for replacement a few weeks ago, he'd forgotten and just been jamming disk after disk in the hole wondering why they wouldn't show up. The hole, with no floppy drive behind it, was at least 2cms high

Anyway flanagaj do your skills extend to Android games development? I've seen a few holes in the app market , can do the artwork/audio/organising (play store submission etc)/marketing (astroturfing, buying reviews, getting legit mentions on android sites etc) but I would need a programmer to do the other side of things. Probably not a great earner but if you can whack a few apps out there it's passive income and they don't have to involve massive coding. Just a thought anyway, PM me if interested..

I have done android as a pet project at home, but would not be comfortable going for a job doing it from day one. IT dev has become so broad these days that I think it is impossible to say you can do it all. Just look at the different flavours of java programming

1. Web related J2EE
2. Android dev
3. Standard J2SE

There may well be people out there who claim they can do the lot, but I am not convinced they can.

I need to get searching as I can't let this visa expire. Took me ages to get it, and I just keep thinking about all of that amazing windsurfing / surfing to be had!

Ted the Kiwi said..

Dawn Patrol said..
All good trying to get a job, but I see asking for reduced pay as devaluing the profession. It would bbecome a slippery slope to the bottom of who is willing to be paid the least.
It's the same for all professionns, it'll be harder for the next guy to get paid what they are worth etc.

Bollocks. He is just trying to get a job.

In all seriousness do you really think one person offering to work for less will cause a whole backward step for those looking for work in the Java field?

1. It might get him a job - he just wants to stay and is running out of time - his options are reduced - so his price must come down to meet the market.

2. flanagaj is just one of many in what some would argue is a slightly more mature market place these days. If he was involved in the cutting edge or some new frontier then yes he may be able to have an influence on broader prices. But given what he has already stated this is not the case. And plus if he was - he certainly would not be posting here.

3.Economic theory depicts that someone in a monopoly /monopolistic situation has the potential to earn super profits and be choossie of their employee. Java programmers as a general rule lost this years ago. So it reverts back to a more perfect competition situation - lots of potential employers - but lots of competition for those jobs.

One individual does not devalue a profession. If you do not believe me watch the NRL and try and work out why it is getting increased followings each year and they players are getting paid more - despite the fact that it would seem that more are behaving like idiots in the public eye - maybe thank social media and more electronic devices . Yes riddle me that one.

4. Did you notice that the RBA cut rates last week ? Why do you think they did that? Being upfront that you are happy to take a cut is probably something that a vast amount of people are going to have to do going forward if things do not improve. The economy is showing genuine signs of slowing. Wake up.

5.He has also indicated that he is not too good at the pre-employment side of the equation - which reduces his options of selling himself. So by definition he must come down to meet the market in its present state.

Your last statement is a shocker. Do you really expect me to believe that you would hold out for an extra $3 an hour when you need a job to support your family and pay your mortgage just because you think its the right thing for your profession? Do you really think that this one individual has that much control over what everyone else is getting paid? Do you hold out for an extra $3,000 on your house sale because you feel for the other residents in your street and do not want them to feel let down? No - you will act in self interest. So why should flanagaj not? I most certainly would and I think most people do as a general rule - 90% plus easily. People like to talk a good game but at the end they always vote with the back pocket.

Obviously there are two sides to the coin - and I happen to sway toward one side.

I never mentioned accepting a reduction in pay to meet the market as a bad thing. That may very well be necessary.

What I am saying that I don't agree in offering to under cut everyone below market value to get a job. Does it end up going to the lowest bidder? Pay for peanuts get monkeys? Do you end up having to pay to get experience? Work for free?

I think people should be paid what they are worth (market wise). And it won't only be one person trying to get the foot in. It will likely be many doing it. That is what will make the difference.

I can understand doing a low paid/free trial period.

If I were an employer (which I am not - so I am probably totally wrong), I would find it a risk to employ a person who hasn't passed the interview stage and would like to have what is effectively a long paid interview. There are also pros to this as well which might even out the cons.

But yeh, probably tough times for many people ahead, so I would expect to see it happening more and more.

Dawn Patrol said..

Ted the Kiwi said..

What I am saying that I don't agree in offering to under cut everyone below market value to get a job.
Does it end up going to the lowest bidder? Pay for peanuts get monkeys? Do you end up having to pay to get experience? Work for free?

I think people should be paid what they are worth (market wise). And it won't only be one person trying to get the foot in. It will likely be many doing it. That is what will make the difference.

I can understand doing a low paid/free trial period.

If I were an employer (which I am not - so I am probably totally wrong), I would find it a risk to employ a person who hasn't passed the interview stage and would like to have what is effectively a long paid interview. There are also pros to this as well which might even out the cons.

But yeh, probably tough times for many people ahead, so I would expect to see it happening more and more.

Again, no such thing as the "market value". There is what people think they should be making, and it's usually inflated even compared to their peers.
(not saying it's your case DP)

No it's not a matter of the lowest bidder, but there's so much difference between the lowest and the inflated demands that there are plenty
o'good candidates in the middle pack, with a balance of eagerness, modesty, hunger and demands.

In the end, there is much supply now, for a very average demand. That's gonna worsen too.
Plus IT employers are willing to wait for the right guy, who's hungry enough, with the right attitude.

I am an employer and interviewer with much mileage, and there is a lot of degradation in the attitude of youngsters.
Y2K, the IT bubble, consultants at $200/hr, all that is gone guys.

(Had this guy who justified his outlandish hourly rate the other day this way "you know, Sydney is expensive and I have to pay for my flat" - wow)

Have you looked at elance.com Unfortunately this is probably the future of all IT jobs, as well as accountancy, law, architecture - maybe even medicine.

If you have marketable skills; and have a number of verifiable projects that you have completed then there is still a living to be made.

Personally going back 15 years you could get one off projects and ask $70 per hour. Now you may be lucky to get $30 to $35 per hour.

sotired said..

pierrec45 said..
(Had this guy who justified his outlandish hourly rate the other day this way "you know, Sydney is expensive and I have to pay for my flat" - wow)

Not that I agree with the way that he seems to have said it, but there is some merit in this argument.
...
I would say that the this guy, other than asking for a outlandish rate, has an argument... but not for rates that are unrealistic at the moment.

Fully agreed with you, he makes a good point (he's not alone), I find the whole thing a bit sad.
But unfortunately no company will go beyond salary competitiveness and eat up profits, just to accommodate new employees' mortgage payments.

On the other hand, if I was to go for a schooner or two with those types, I might find that they have the lifestyle: 2 SUVs or 3 hols a year in Asia, that sort of stuff.
So what would I really be subsidizing, huh?

Something's gotta give. I always thought that the putting up of business towers in Chatswood from the 80s and other such further west in Sydney were a way of decentralising, but let's face it: Sydney filled up faster than businesses could move out west. Or south to Melbourne..

before, kd53 said..
you may be lucky to get $30 to $35 per hour

Yep. Nowadays one's got to rise above the rest from the corporate inside, starting at the bottom now.
Java was a luxury 15ya, now it's a very basic commodity.

Something else has changed in that market. There was a time when as an interviewer/hirer, in a subconscious manner of course,
you'd give an advantage to the traditional local workforce over "the other category of applicants".

It's no longer the case (last 15 years?). The newly arrived labour force is certainly on par now.
That and the scam of outsourcing have driven the prices down.
Modern reality...

Regarding the Java guys, I would add: for some reason they really seem to have a short attention span - very few years per employer.
This is not good at interview time guys, not one bit.