Monofoil: Sail speed record contender

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nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
16 Oct 2006 6:47pm
Has anyone come across this design before?
http://www.monofoil.com/boat/index.php

Seems a bit complex, but notably they reckon they can tack or gybe and then have another run back the other way.

Thoughts?
mkseven
mkseven
QLD
2315 posts
QLD, 2315 posts
17 Oct 2006 7:33am
My initial thoughts- what a load of bollocks.

Maybe finian and others should make up websites with outlandish claims, hell nebbian even you could do it. Cmon no one has touched 50knots apart from fin and they are claiming 100 . People have been trying to hit 30, 40 and now 50 for over 30 years in some wacky craft and I dont see this as anything radically different. Any that have tried should take this as an insult.

Secondly look at their time frame, within a few months they are going to take several world records. Within 8 months they are going to assemble the craft, learn to drive the damn thing and punt it over 50knots. Compare this with the time frame of something like MI or even finian/bjorns simple already made, assembled, ridden and proven craft.

So to me it goes something like this-
quit job, get sponsored by government- decide i'm gonna break 150knots on a (revolutionary) sailboard.
get a few like minded people (hopefully some with some sort of relevant qualification).
make a website to suck in all kinds of stupid people with lots of money, include a few more outlandish claims and unrealistic itinery.
build a model, when model achieves 10km/h point out speed is proportional to boat scale.
build sailboard.
go sailing, continue to be optimistic when sailboard crashes or fails to come close to current record.
walk away with lots of money.

After a bit of consideration i stand by my initial thoughts. I'll add to that though, i am gonna have a celebratory beer when this thing crashes or fails miserably. 50 knots?- sailboards first soon after kites.
backloop
backloop
QLD
141 posts
QLD, 141 posts
17 Oct 2006 9:14am
Why so pessimistic mkseven? Looks like an interesting toy for me. cant really imagine to see that thing tacking or gybing and the 100 knots sound also a bit far away.
There is defanitely some engeneering spirit going on and if it breakes the current speed record by one knot i would call it a success.
I reckon the guy who has build the first windsurfer got also called a crazy nut.
mkseven
mkseven
QLD
2315 posts
QLD, 2315 posts
17 Oct 2006 2:34pm
The whole project would have credibility to me if they first claimed to break the world sailing record, then after that they can claim whatever they want. Compare that site and the claims made to one that already have runs on the board- http://www.macquarie.com.au/speedsailing.htm

I'm not being pessimistic, there just seems to be alot of ideas coming out- most talk themselves up bigtime, most cost lots of money which could be put to better things and most fail to even break 40 knots. Pump the money or time that these things use into a sailboard or kite and 50 knots will be history.

And no the first sailboard made perfect sense.
backloop
backloop
QLD
141 posts
QLD, 141 posts
17 Oct 2006 4:59pm
Maybe you are right.
Do you think they want to make just money or dont know about physiks?
Still it is a conplete different concept and even if i am pretty sure that their promisses are verry far away from reality i am interestet in how it goes once its build.
greenleader
greenleader
QLD
5283 posts
QLD, 5283 posts
17 Oct 2006 9:19pm
hydrofoily stuff isn't mainstream even though it's been bandied around for decades.

promises, promises.
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
17 Oct 2006 7:43pm
Did anyone else notice the 'gates' on the fins, to stop the air bubble man having a field day with the fins?

I wonder if this would stop spinout on a windsurfer?
greenleader
greenleader
QLD
5283 posts
QLD, 5283 posts
17 Oct 2006 10:21pm
i'll dig up a forefin nebs.
Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14968 posts
QLD, 14968 posts
18 Oct 2006 6:58am
hey greenleader,

have you got any forefins or canards lying around that newly painted building.

i have an old wave fin that might like it's brother back.

cheers.


hey guys, download the vids of the model. it's moves along. totally out of control though. if we use the old theory that scale increase is proportional to speed increase then i reckon the full scale version will go about 2m before it explodes.

i reckon they are up for some quick times if they can fix the steering..
MikeyS
MikeyS
VIC
1509 posts
VIC, 1509 posts
19 Oct 2006 1:26pm
Nah. Nothing that ugly can go as fast as they claim. There's a rarely cited law of physics, Mikey's Law I believe, that says if it doesn't appeal to the eye, or if it's not red, it won't go fast.
greenleader
greenleader
QLD
5283 posts
QLD, 5283 posts
19 Oct 2006 10:58pm
wow, mikey that's true!

aesthetics rule!

anyone got anything further to add?
stamp
stamp
QLD
2800 posts
QLD, 2800 posts
20 Oct 2006 11:20am
yes- stripes will increase speed by 14.72%
knot board
knot board
QLD
1241 posts
QLD, 1241 posts
20 Oct 2006 1:21pm
quote:
Originally posted by stamp

yes- stripes will increase speed by 14.72%


Hmm, not exactly....more precisely...

Universal Law of Hydrodynamics No.435(a)
Stripes applied to the hull of a water craft in a transverse pattern (ie. diagonally) will increase potential maxium velocity by 14.72%. Stripes applied in a lateral or perpendicular pattern will reduce potential maxiumum velocity by 14.72%.

Universal Law of Hydrodynamics No.435(b)
The velocity reduction effect of law 435(a) is negated if any of the applied stripes are red.


Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14968 posts
QLD, 14968 posts
20 Oct 2006 5:29pm
i can validate knot boars theory,

my red board goes really really fast.
deaston
deaston
1 posts
1 posts
1 Nov 2006 5:35am
We've been having some dilemmas about the colour.

MI have kind of already got the red theme but I suppose we could be red too. We'll have to see about the stripes though.

MikeyS
MikeyS
VIC
1509 posts
VIC, 1509 posts
2 Nov 2006 1:13pm
OK, Daniel, OK, I was being facetious about the colour thing. Mikey's Law doesn't really say that it must be red to go fast. And I'm sorry to have called your baby ugly, but... Although if it goes as fast as you predict, who gives a rat's what it looks like. It will all be a blur at that speed!
But I was being serious about the aesthetic qualities, and I would invite your comment. At the risk of sounding like an arts student (which I'm not) there's something about elegantly simple design that intuitively seems more credible than complicated, less aethetically pleasing design. Sure, the visual simplicity may belie the complicated engineering below the surface, but my gut tells me that, particularly for aero or hydrodynamic engineering, elegant, clean lines work better than cluttered lines. There are many examples of this in nature, for example, the wing plan and profile of a soaring bird, or the sleek body shape of a fast swimming fish like a tuna or a marlin. They look fast, even when they are motionless. The same goes for the $250,000 Mercedes parked in the basement of our building. It looks like it is going at a thousand miles an hour when it's parked! There's even some kind of elegant simplicity about Finian barrelling down the trench with only a few thousand dollars worth of equipment beneath him. I would compare the lines of his sail, fin and board, which are clean and uncomplicated, to a "design of nature" rather than a design of man. Of course his gear is a manmade design, but it, and even something like Yellow Pages, has (or had with YP) an elegant simplicity.
So, as an engineer, do you think there is anything to Mikey's Law, or is it a crock? How will your team's design, which appears to have disjunctive parts in different places for different purposes, rather than an overall elegant simplicity, succeed. I challenge you to prove me wrong, but hell, I'll be the first to congratulate you if you do! Cheers

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