Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

Murphy Moose with M14P

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Created by nicephotog 9 months ago, 21 Feb 2018
nicephotog
NSW, 160 posts
22 Feb 2018 1:13AM
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Have i gone mad but is it under 100K by the time its finished and ready if you import all the parts?
Most of them are over 100K without instruments and barely lifting four seats as they like to tout!
I've even found EFIS and PITOT in Australian pricing that wasn't too much stacking onto that!

Chris6791
WA, 3083 posts
22 Feb 2018 10:16AM
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www.murphyair.com/detail/moose

Ok. So we're talking planes. Though I now have nothing more to add.

nicephotog
NSW, 160 posts
22 Feb 2018 3:10PM
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You want to understand a few points (apart for what forums and their sub sections are for) (if you are sensible) that "what it is that machine (Moose) is" really generally does not occur for under at least 1/4 of a million (6 seat short ground roll - just not STOL)!?
Whether experimental or not! Standard 4 seat often have been until 2013 up toward 1/4 of a mill. in price kit or constructed !!

2. Australia has the "oddest" and "unforgivable lack of usage" statistically of light aircraft comparative anywhere in the world "particularly" shown by attempting to tout that it(Australia) is a first world country!
The Australian flags of light Aircraft manufacturing Jabiru and Brumby companies are a wreckage to the light aircraft design "world" on efficiency and pricing (they are offered but neither useful compared to many other worldwide designs and cost too much for what the buyer will not get )!

It is a liar, it is second world, it does not have much of actual competitive technology market , it only has the few here and there as they occur that they tout in the media, and worse for them, they try to infuse them into the USA, nothing actually in terms of GDP growth and the final proof of that is a population of 25 million because population growth occurs with each new add on of "stable building wealth". It truly remains the land of sheep.

The final but real reason too few aircraft exist in Australia and it is all odd and unforgivable, is it is the most bizarre climate and environment on earth ranging so heavily in temperatures at any latitude and with such immensely deadly creatures in any region, along with vast land mass expanses of geography of desert or uncross-able granite, that it is simply both a "light aircraft requirement of use to traverse " equal of Canada and a more comprehensively broader climate of use problem than Canada, because Winter weather conditions are not as common.

Canada sees no way of solving its speed time safety of transport without many GA light aircraft and in some terms is a pioneer of its use with float planes. However it does not require light aircraft as much as Australia, However Australia 2018 has possibly less or the same number of GA light aircraft Canada had in 1986 !!!

It is a massive "?" question mark , what is wrong, (there being so few GA aircraft and almost no-one with PPL) because speed safety and technological development weight for weight with economics is what to achieve to drive GDP and in the technology sector, with this the best testing and usage environment on earth because it is immensely harsh and extreme, just bad enough to NOT be excessive danger upon a light aircraft (As it is , most light aircraft crashes in Australia fatal or serious do not involve weather, so there is hardly any excuse , nb: fuel, risky maneuver and classed with CASA as "avoidable" , the main one, "bad pre flight planning").

The one mentioned here is a six seat with short ground roll (not STOL), it ranks economically what some better two seat light aircraft as what you would expect for pricing.
If Canada did this(created a viable light aircraft industry) as it often likes to point at its wilderness geography as the reason and needs light aircraft ,
WTF? is this idiocy of a country .... , using these devices for many, and many more that simply will not have that (pre 2013 capital level) "is not their choice (the problem forces them to use light aircraft)", it is simply unavoidably how it is done to traverse geography, climate and environment of Australia !

Any long distance journey, can, vastly more than LA usage, end in a surgeon picking pieces of road vehicle out of you comparatively.

JulianRoss
WA, 349 posts
22 Feb 2018 5:00PM
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Select to expand quote
nicephotog said..
You want to understand a few points (apart for what forums and their sub sections are for) (if you are sensible) that "what it is that machine (Moose) is" really generally does not occur for under at least 1/4 of a million (6 seat short ground roll - just not STOL)!?
Whether experimental or not! Standard 4 seat often have been until 2013 up toward 1/4 of a mill. in price kit or constructed !!

2. Australia has the "oddest" and "unforgivable lack of usage" statistically of light aircraft comparative anywhere in the world "particularly" shown by attempting to tout that it(Australia) is a first world country!
The Australian flags of light Aircraft manufacturing Jabiru and Brumby companies are a wreckage to the light aircraft design "world" on efficiency and pricing (they are offered but neither useful compared to many other worldwide designs and cost too much for what the buyer will not get )!

It is a liar, it is second world, it does not have much of actual competitive technology market , it only has the few here and there as they occur that they tout in the media, and worse for them, they try to infuse them into the USA, nothing actually in terms of GDP growth and the final proof of that is a population of 25 million because population growth occurs with each new add on of "stable building wealth". It truly remains the land of sheep.

The final but real reason too few aircraft exist in Australia and it is all odd and unforgivable, is it is the most bizarre climate and environment on earth ranging so heavily in temperatures at any latitude and with such immensely deadly creatures in any region, along with vast land mass expanses of geography of desert or uncross-able granite, that it is simply both a "light aircraft requirement of use to traverse " equal of Canada and a more comprehensively broader climate of use problem than Canada, because Winter weather conditions are not as common.

Canada sees no way of solving its speed time safety of transport without many GA light aircraft and in some terms is a pioneer of its use with float planes. However it does not require light aircraft as much as Australia, However Australia 2018 has possibly less or the same number of GA light aircraft Canada had in 1986 !!!

It is a massive "?" question mark , what is wrong, (there being so few GA aircraft and almost no-one with PPL) because speed safety and technological development weight for weight with economics is what to achieve to drive GDP and in the technology sector, with this the best testing and usage environment on earth because it is immensely harsh and extreme, just bad enough to NOT be excessive danger upon a light aircraft (As it is , most light aircraft crashes in Australia fatal or serious do not involve weather, so there is hardly any excuse , nb: fuel, risky maneuver and classed with CASA as "avoidable" , the main one, "bad pre flight planning").

The one mentioned here is a six seat with short ground roll (not STOL), it ranks economically what some better two seat light aircraft as what you would expect for pricing.
If Canada did this(created a viable light aircraft industry) as it often likes to point at its wilderness geography as the reason and needs light aircraft ,
WTF? is this idiocy of a country .... , using these devices for many, and many more that simply will not have that (pre 2013 capital level) "is not their choice (the problem forces them to use light aircraft)", it is simply unavoidably how it is done to traverse geography, climate and environment of Australia !

Any long distance journey, can, vastly more than LA usage, end in a surgeon picking pieces of road vehicle out of you comparatively.


He's back

Marsbars
315 posts
22 Feb 2018 7:14PM
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Select to expand quote
nicephotog said..
Have i gone mad

kk
WA, 697 posts
22 Feb 2018 8:34PM
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Is that you Macro??

myusernam
QLD, 5238 posts
23 Feb 2018 6:30AM
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Some dudes when they get older go plane nerd. Seen it a lot. Bloke I worked with recently bought a gyro. Wouldn't it be best to talk about stuff on a plane forum?

rockmagnet
QLD, 1084 posts
23 Feb 2018 6:53AM
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Judging by the bizarre wording , I think that he thinks he is having a discussion with someone on an aircraft site and does not realise that he is actually on Seabreeze, a water sports based site.

nicephotog
NSW, 160 posts
23 Feb 2018 8:55AM
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Just to answer rockmagnet's question there , what is the aircraft's environment it is set up for In the picture in the link Chris6791 posted.
Is that water or just holiday piss from all the bottles consumed?

Well... there is always national economics and "legitimacy" of the value of national currency to talk about in "general section" but i'd say directly discussing that with US banks and other countries banks would be more profitable experience.

So you are saying the "type of point in the videos showing Australian environment and usefulness of aircraft" is invalid as a serious or sensible consideration as a topic and completely negligible as a topic (feel free to derise that to anyone from Marysville or Kinglake should they mention it if they get to this forum ?



Chris6791
WA, 3083 posts
23 Feb 2018 12:15PM
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Your original post (and subsequent) posts are downright confusing, lack purpose and direction. We have no idea what you're trying to say or want us to comment on.

Cambodge
VIC, 778 posts
23 Feb 2018 2:31PM
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Select to expand quote
Chris6791 said..
Your original post (and subsequent) posts are downright confusing, lack purpose and direction. We have no idea what you're trying to say or want us to comment on.


Maybe it's an AI bot?

hilly
WA, 4331 posts
23 Feb 2018 12:35PM
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Off the meds again

NotWal
QLD, 6677 posts
23 Feb 2018 2:42PM
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Select to expand quote
nicephotog said..
...





So that's what a helitack is. I've been doing them wrong.

Chris6791
WA, 3083 posts
23 Feb 2018 6:13PM
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Just got to watching that helitack clip. What idiot puts their crew in such a high risk position to save a small wooden pedestrian bridge over what looks like a tiny dry creek. They may as well have been standing in a chimney.

Shifu
QLD, 921 posts
23 Feb 2018 8:57PM
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You should definitely build one!

nicephotog
NSW, 160 posts
24 Feb 2018 12:32AM
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Select to expand quote
Chris6791 said..
Your original post (and subsequent) posts are downright confusing, lack purpose and direction. We have no idea what you're trying to say or want us to comment on.



Do you need this constructed in "Backus-Naur form"?

It's simple! Compare it to any "journalism" called "human interest stories".
That's what journalism is about is articles.
Some "journalists" wrote only about particular subjects, not that they particularly limit themselves.
"Human interest" means there is some relationship between the subject of the article and the originality of the information that is unusual , exceptional or has a wow factor (while in the journalist ethos it is understood it may not have appeal to everyone).

So the inspiration for the original post goes the alike.
Person whom is them self by point of what they orient to in interest and activity, posts about an activity.\
It's value is not to push aside every one else individuality or "target specific induce or force conversation",
Simply using the "thread post" subject presentation system to present a piece of their own interest character to show a subject that has an exemplary human interest feature because of its extremely unusual and unique.

What happens to be unusual about the aircraft Moose with M14P engine is the very fact it is a six seat kit aircraft with 700Kg usful load for under 300K dollars USD.
NORMALLY, such performance parameters cost no less than 1/4 of a million USD AND it is near(but) a STOL aircraft which to date would make such an aircraft's value in the region 300 - 500k USD.

There are many reason s why such an aircraft could be built and sold at such a level of efficiency and performance and economics.

So, the simple fact it exists as a kit for home building and is affordable is an immense wow factor !

musorianin
QLD, 187 posts
24 Feb 2018 8:58AM
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I think these have been written in Russian or something and feed thru Google translate. Any way, for under 100k, I want one--my neighbour down the road hates that I park my 14ft catamaran in the street--wait till he sees my moose??

nicephotog
NSW, 160 posts
24 Feb 2018 11:09AM
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While it may be a personal interest , light aircraft human interest articles with "wow factor" generally rank with some form of "current affair professional media article". (note: six seat light aircraft are considered the beginning of light aircraft airliner).
In terms of the point it carries a large quantity of the population DO WANT TO KNOW viewing such an article just as why a media publication editor chooses current affair articles, it ranks highly to want to know and view at least skimmed as a choice if not read!

Just like sweet meat in terms of "human interest",
you can choose that "nationally" and hence has a "national magazine" as Latino , Asian , Chinese , Korean , White, Black, Blonde,
Any developed country has its own viable "national magazine of Light aircraft" stick book e.g." Australian Flying Magazine".

Number built 120 (2011). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy_Moose
The country it comes from (Canada) , it is as principally designed as a "sea plane" outright, its short landing takeoff (that is not quite STOL) is an easy enough work in to its design too with ordinary "tail dragger undercarriage".
This one is no exception as it distinctly has it over the 50 year old De Havilland Beaver (i call them the De Havilland Beaver "50 year old death trap" because enough is enough from that one song record track) , the Moose, being "brand new" , affordable , performs better than a beaver and an average wage earner can near afford one in a bank loan context because its final price after all to theoretical flyable test stage and an average wage earners loan viability being much less than loan collateral acceptance on a house by repossession value is probably not shall we say "breaking the bank", it may well accept the (re-edit FINAL probable min. costing - with building hangar sufficient to carry 2 tonne capacity winch, spare tyre set, couple barrels fuel, refueling equip. , barrel of oil e.t.c. - just to help you think and understand the whole intricate annoying sum) 185K - 195K loan for complete setup of all equipment if viable and sensible (probably not much more if it is not a house) !
In terms of economics it is called achieving the impossible, the impossible can occur (that itself is a "wow factor" in economics media articles) !
If you wish to read a "chunkier current issue" about light aircraft there is this windsolarhybridaustralia.x10.mx/
(NB: (warning) You can read about "the meaning" of the word "kit" in this site, it's not absolutely what it implies re - "51% rule" and "complete" is not complete !!! )

If you really want an "economic" WOW FACTOR relating average Australian wage , in bypassing "51% rule" danger, at 200K you possibly can import a "factory built" Moose that can have low overhead insurance !!! THAT IS A "WOW" FACTOR FOR SUCH AN AIRCRAFT.

To summarize, "WOW"!

musorianin
QLD, 187 posts
24 Feb 2018 12:29PM
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Yep, Google translate

nicephotog
NSW, 160 posts
28 Feb 2018 12:50PM
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I'll tell you what your problem is "you're all techno phobes" you can't handle modern technology, the world is changing and you're afraid of that, you know what, you'll be left behind,

What would you see in it if people that read these threads in this forum that are not a particular few like yourselves were to personally obtain such an aircraft for carrying both their family and their SUPs or wind surfers as a float plane or amphibian based on the fact that this information is both "relevant , helpful to what they do and where they go to do it" and an alternative that has difficulty to know of warranting being acceptable to mention on this latter point alone legally because most other options (aircraft) are not particularly suitable OR competitive as an alternative to ground travel / road vehicle (legal mention because of effectiveness and unlikely to be delivered by any other means than knowledge-experience and chatting) !

relevance:
1. Designed deliberately for usage as a sea plane / float plane
2. carrying capacity is at a level multiple ocean sports "personal individual sailing or ocean sports equipment" can be carried along with multiple ocean sports passengers
3. Shorter take-off than many light aircraft in its class
4. well toward average wage earner affordability and, new not second hand
5. Approximately similar cost to construct or acquire compared to upper-"lower end" two seat light aircraft market !

See the underbelly of the following Murphy moose in the video has an "accessory cargo hold" fitted, so dependent how much your other 5 passengers "trip the light fantastic as weight" , it could store 6 boards, rather than probably four/five.




Try understanding this , the object that has been mentioned is totally exceptional to its own very place among both light aircraft and ocean/water sports ,
technically it fits every reason (not excuse) criteria of mention in such a forum as this and no court in Australia would uphold your behavior or official complaint against its mention including censorship bureau.

Since a number of designs started to be marketed because they succeeded (since 2013 - 2015) there is some competition and some better machines.

note: For completeness and safety ( having an aircraft or acquiring it into Australia has some odd pitfalls ), i would prefer anyone considering this "to know well a few points from safety of all forms", the following document has around everything required to know about this subject basically and in general and i have never found any other articles on the net as comprehensively integrated on the subject , so wrote this (it's chewy, it takes three months to read over and understand, keep all the docs e.t.c. in a folder),
So i supply this link to assist against ignorance and stupidity if such machines are chosen to be used:
windsolarhybridaustralia.x10.mx/PPL-light-aircraft.pdf

note of relevance to safety of sea-planes:
Of the Sydney Sea-plane crash, they may not have noticed something after a couple of severe weather incidents over Sydney in the two months preceding the crash, i have been down to Rose Bay and seen that aircraft moored like a boat to a short pier where it resides.
Ocean swell and waves may have snapped a main joint on the main-frame (shows that sudden jarred "bent" appearance on main frame in the video apart the size of thump to nose dive to water) if they did not get it out of the way fast enough from ocean swell or wild weather (cannot find a weather buoy chart for Sydney in Oct Nov Dec 2017), but peculiarly, there were also "flooding King tides" around that time-zone in Sydney that more means under-water earthquake of can throw a whole super freighter meters up like tissue paper and can be felt when standing on one when that occurs !
Nothing to worry about for Sea-planes under 15 - 25 years old except weather, (The Sydney sea-plane was 50 years old and many of Australia's private and commercial aircraft are around 50, the Essendon Vic. crash was over 20 years old - Enough is enough! buy new ones, you should see the f..kn make/model names in the Australian light aircraft register (find Amelia Earhart's make/model and look for that in the register of twins, i think there are actually a few there) , 50 years may be young!!!)
AND
I totally forgot to mention, Disasters, in relevance to sea-planes ,in the context of usage and getting them out of the way is one thing,
there is also coming back after ! e.g. Cyclones, Heatwaves (in Australia they kill around 100 people at least unlike anywhere else in the world)
, there is also "shipwreck"(***1991*** - Cyclone Fife. 27 lost in shipwreck of "Mineral Diamond") as a real odd-bod of the situation.

Avoid, requires something fast enough and far enough (500ft) , not merely pre-empt !!!
(Wikipedia is not usually best for such lists completely but this happens to be quite a good one)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_disasters_in_Australia_by_death_toll

dusta
WA, 2887 posts
6 Mar 2018 11:29PM
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Select to expand quote
nicephotog said..
I'll tell you what your problem is "you're all techno phobes" you can't handle modern technology, the world is changing and you're afraid of that, you know what, you'll be left behind,



please whatever you are smoking can i have some .

Mark _australia
WA, 18492 posts
8 Mar 2018 11:49AM
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Given an M14 is an old assault rifle, I just assumed Murphy Moose was the latest American mass killer.


But I learned that in light aircraft, 6 seater is where we start to call it an airliner.
Sweet.

nicephotog
NSW, 160 posts
14 Mar 2018 12:29AM
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Mark _australia said..
Given an M14 is an old assault rifle, I just assumed Murphy Moose was the latest American mass killer.


But I learned that in light aircraft, 6 seater is where we start to call it an airliner.
Sweet.


One thing it may interest you to know if you are spend thrift, is Australian law prevents commercial use of such a machine (six seater aircraft) as an airliner unless both ABN point and a commercial pilot's license is valid,
HOWEVER, OF SPEND THRIFT , the law does allow "sharing the cost of a journey of a non commercial light aircraft" legally !
At six seats , that could work out better than four seats if yourself's household is the pilot and the only one person in that ride , the other five sharing a lift , also a little viable even in a 360 HP machine !
Just a point about the word airliner !



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"Murphy Moose with M14P" started by nicephotog