Aren't you in the oil & gas business yourself? I am, and have thought many times about quitting.

Clive

True. Not so decadant tho, I do own the oldest kite gear south of the river.

The funny fact that the Model T Ford was more economical than the current Ford Fiesta is disturbing for me. Conspiracy???

Also Mr Howard's recent decision to excise Bio Deisel showed him bowing to pressuere of the Oil Companies. An exemption is being sought by "cottage industry" Bio Deisel producers (similar to existing Home Brew Beer laws) but is being resisted by Federal Government. Such an excise makes producing Bio Deisel for personal use expensive and an unattractive option.

Getting gone!!!
Seaton

I can't believe people still perpetuate this garbage ! I work in the industry, so if your going to sprout crap at least get your facts straight.

Re a one day boycott - those companies that import fuel use the largest ships possible to reduce cartage costs (and thus keep your price down). As such, there can be up to a months fuel sitting in a huge tank between ships, so a one day boycott will achieve nothing.

But try it if it makes you feel better.

The reason car companies make huge, powerful cars is because THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE BUY. They make tiny, gutless buzz boxes and even thought they are cheaper than the big gas guzzlers, they don't sell many. CONSUMER DEMAND drives the car market, not oil companies.

Why don't you make a stand and buy a Solar powered or Electric car yourself - that will teach them oil companies ! Then again, they're pretty expensive aren't they ? And they're gutless. And they don't go far on a charge. And you can't carry your kit in them (too small). And......gee I wonder why no-one buys them ??????

Re the Model T using less fuel than a current Fiesta. Check your facts - use Google and you will find the Model T delivered about 20 miles to the gallon at best - a Fiesta will double that !

Finally the greatest conspiracy theory of all - the Government and the Oil Companies teaming up to screw you. The reason Johnny Howard doesn't want you using BioDiesel is very simple - TAX. The Government takes over half the bowser price as TAX, so if he exempts BioDiesel from Tax and it's cheaper than normal Diesel, w ebuy it and Government revenue dries up. That's why they are in the process of phasing in Federal Excise tax on LPG - too many people are using it and they are losing too much revenue because for every litre of petrol sold, the Federal Govt gets over 38 cents Tax, plus 10% GST added to the sale price. On LPG they used to get NOTHING, till the GST came in - now they only get 10% of the final price, which is low anyway.

They aren't interested in the environment or sustaining the planet - they want to maximise the TAX you pay, and anything that reduces the tax payable WILL BE CANNED !

We are all consumers, and we choose where we spend our money. If high fuel prices concern you, buy a more economical car, take the bus or ride your bike. Buy Green Power electricity for your house. Sail with a friend and share a car to the beach, halving the fuel cost. If all this sounds too hard, you have no right to whine about fuel prices.

But if you really feel passionate go and see your local MP and tell him/her you want the TAX on fuel eliminated, as this would HALVE the price tomorrow. But remember, they have to get Tax from somewhere and if it's not fuel it will be Income Tax, GST, Stamp Duty or some other fanciful concoction. We all want free medical care, emergency services and hate toll roads - but someone has to pay the piper....

>Re a one day boycott - those companies that import fuel use the
>largest ships possible to reduce cartage costs (and thus keep your
>price down).

They do not 'keep your price down', it is simply so they can increase profit margins and undercut competitors - common business logic.

>As such, there can be up to a months fuel sitting in a huge tank
>between ships, so a one day boycott will achieve nothing.

Achieve _nothing_? i highly doubt it.

>But try it if it makes you feel better.

Many people do, and it is a huge issue for the public face of petrol companies in the UK.

>The reason car companies make huge, powerful cars is because THAT'S
>WHAT PEOPLE BUY. They make tiny, gutless buzz boxes and even
>thought they are cheaper than the big gas guzzlers, they don't sell
>many. CONSUMER DEMAND drives the car market, not oil companies.

The fact that we buy overly large cars is a cultural thing. This culture is influenced by a number of organisations and such. Large 4WDs (as a prime example) are rarely safer than smaller sedans in any regard, but people most often buy them because of a perception of increased safety. Who do you think influences this? Car companies - you bet they do. 4WDs usually boast an overly inflated price tag because they can be sold despite their inherent problems (bad fuel economy, poor stability, danger to other road users, etc). Whether or not the oil companies have any fingers in the pie, as far as the propagation of poor fuel economy through these models, who knows? I certainly don't :) My point was that some consumers don't know what they want, or rather, they think they are buying one thing, but not getting it. Everyone who uses the road, or even walks along it, are affected by people's choice of vehicle, as larger 4wds often endanger others - look at the statistics (NRMA, ANCAP...). The modern car, as an agent for human transport, is regarded as a classic engineering failure in many circles - there are many reasons why poeple buy cars in the developed world, and few of them necessitate from transport.

Take a look at some of the 100,000+ articles listed on Google regarding 4WD issues:

http://poseur.4x4.org/reasons2.html
inside.bard.edu/politicalstudies/student/PS260Spring03/suv.htm
www.pps.net.au/4wdencounter/articles/4wdsafer.html
bulletin.ninemsn.com.au/bulletin/EdDesk.nsf/0/D1C32BF1BA5E13EECA256E24001A1266?OpenDocument
www.suv.com/suvsafety/
ink.news.com.au/mercury/mathguys/articles/1994/941201a4.htm

>Why don't you make a stand and buy a Solar powered or Electric car
>yourself - that will teach them oil companies !

Don't laugh, it is possible (and has been demonstrated) to build a hydrogen car that is competitive and better in performance than an average sedan. Who do you think blocks these technologies? Vested interests... To suggest a solar powered car for a substitute is simply ignorant of solar technology, but i guess you are joking.

>Re the Model T using less fuel than a current Fiesta. Check your
>facts - use Google and you will find the Model T delivered about 20
>miles to the gallon at best - a Fiesta will double that

agreed :D

>Finally the greatest conspiracy theory of all - the Government and
>the Oil Companies teaming up to screw you.

Tongue in cheek, this is a lighthearted discussion.

>The Government takes over half the bowser price as TAX, so if he
>exempts BioDiesel from Tax and it's cheaper than normal Diesel, w
>ebuy it and Government revenue dries up

This is true, but there are actually environmental obligations of the govn. The old yarn, 'but the government takes most of it', is a poor excuse of the oil industry. Do you see many financially battling oil companies?

>We are all consumers, and we choose where we spend our money. If
>high fuel prices concern you, buy a more economical car, take the
>bus or ride your bike. Buy Green Power electricity for your house.
>Sail with a friend and share a car to the beach, halving the fuel
>cost. If all this sounds too hard, you have no right to whine about
>fuel prices.

This is very true, but you may find that some 'whiners' already do all of those things ;) The whole issue and motivation for people spreading boycott emails is that consumers do not have a choice of what they pay for fuel. The boycotts are meant to re-instate the consumer control that we have lost in this industry.

>We all want free medical care, emergency services and hate toll
>roads - but someone has to pay the piper....

true. But could you imagine if that tax was abolished (extreme i know): fuel would be half the price, non-one would catch the bus, car sales would inevitably increase - all adding to the issue of too many vehicles. Perth does not see the result of this yet, but try breathing the air in Los Angeles.

>I can't believe people still perpetuate this garbage ! I work in
>the industry, so if your going to sprout crap at least get your
>facts straight.

The petrol boycott, brainwashing comments etc were all said in a light hearted and tongue in cheek manner. Before you respond in with an aggressive approach Grumpy, maybe consider that these are peoples opinions, and I think you would find it hard to disprove that a boycott would affect the oil companies anyway (to a much lesser magnitude than that suggested). Do YOU really know that they wouldn't be affected? Or are you just presuming that because they have large tanks and ships, and you 'work in the industry' (how does this authoritise you to make such accusations as 'sprout crap ')? This is the seabreeze forum dude, not a forum for flaming people. I am not complaining personally about fuel, but i do defend valid opinions.


Hrmmm, the wind should be up by now... time to sail.

i drive a small car which only just fits my kit in so petrol isn't the biggest worry but tax has to come from somewhere. i think it would be better coming from petrol than raising taxes on other things such as windsurfing gear imagine pay twice as much for gear??? it would destroy the sport