Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

PLASTIC!!!!! Worse than anything else!!!

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Created by cisco Monday, 29 Jun 2020
cisco
QLD, 11765 posts
Monday , 29 Jun 2020 11:19PM
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Forget Covid 19.
Forget BLM.
Forget Climate Change.
Forget anything else.
They are just sideshows to distract you from the real issues.

PLASTIC is the biggest catastrophe the world is facing. We are choking on it. It is in the food chain now.

Wake up you damned idiots.

Cleaning up the damage already done is a monumental task but it is impossible if we do not stop it coming in from the top end.

Ban plastic production by the oil companies and others NOW.

psychojoe
VIC, 758 posts
Tuesday , 30 Jun 2020 7:19AM
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Yep. It's Nestle.
They steal the water, they use the plastic.
Their products aren't even necessary.
If we just ended Nestle, there'd be more water in the villages, less plastic in the ocean, and less obesity in society.
But if we change the name of Redskins and Chicos, surely that'll make it all alright

bazz61
QLD, 3317 posts
Tuesday , 30 Jun 2020 8:27AM
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micro plastics (from clothing) are now in Fish and other marine life .. it is a major problem.

Imax1
QLD, 2743 posts
Tuesday , 30 Jun 2020 9:00AM
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Keeping in mind your toys are made from plastic.
We now cant live without it .
We need to use less and use the bin . landfill is ok in most cases .

westozwind
WA, 1302 posts
Tuesday , 30 Jun 2020 8:28AM
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Any one over the age of 20 complaining about plastic is a bit hypocritical. You have used it all your lives, but now it's a problem.

Mr Milk
NSW, 2038 posts
Tuesday , 30 Jun 2020 11:54AM
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I don't see the hypocrisy. Unless you are talking about people who complain but don't at least make some effort to reduce their personal contribution to the problem.
I am pissed off by Colesworths public claim to be reducing plastic packaging while at the same time changing their meat packaging to ultra tough (like the meat itself, but that might just be my cooking). On the other hand, maybe they're just doing their bit to discourage meat eating.

Paradox
QLD, 994 posts
Tuesday , 30 Jun 2020 1:41PM
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westozwind said..
Any one over the age of 20 complaining about plastic is a bit hypocritical. You have used it all your lives, but now it's a problem.


Bull****. It's not the use of plastic, but the overuse and improper dsposal of it that is an issue.

Anyone who has lived for the last 50 years can plainly see the exponential and increasingly irrelevent use of it over the last 20 years. Global production of plastic today is 6 times what it was in 1990. Consumer products and packaging especially is out of control.

GPA
WA, 2422 posts
Tuesday , 30 Jun 2020 12:05PM
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One of the things that sh!ts me the most is those crap plastic 'toys' that you get in Christmas crackers - that go straight into the bin 2hrs later. Who in the world paid money to set up a factory to make that disposable novelty crap...

actiomax
NSW, 1467 posts
Tuesday , 30 Jun 2020 2:30PM
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I had a really funny joke with them my son got the magnifying glass & I said did u get the penis enlargement kit .
But don't use it in direct sunlight.
But that's always made me wonder & I still can't get my head around the kinder surprise.
piece of plastic junk that's a chocking hazard in a chocolate for children.

holy guacamole
1134 posts
Tuesday , 30 Jun 2020 3:14PM
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Mmm yes. Improper plastic disposal and overuse of plastic is a major problem for sure....but, is it as bad as all the other forms of persistent and increasing environmental degradation?

I think not.

I think framing plastics as the worst environmental problem this planet faces is quite naive and just another way of making excuses for doing nothing or little on reducing our fossil fuel use, ending deforestation practices or stopping mining in areas of agricultural importance, for example.

All of these problems require resolution, all at the same time.

benjl
393 posts
Tuesday , 30 Jun 2020 4:13PM
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I work in a mixed role selling plastic films / packaging while also being in a sustainability role- go figure! Very conflicting kpi's.

the problem with plastics are that there are not suitable substitutes in most cases to replace them. Cost, carbon footprint, ease of manufacture, weight are all common problems with alternatives.
agree plastics need to be reduced (massively), but a total substitute is not feasible currently. What manufacturers really need to work on is 'end of life', ideas and a proper plan for what happens to the product once it is used. Too many are just focusing on the manufacturing / selling process and no care to what it ends or can be disposed of after then.

Imax1
QLD, 2743 posts
Tuesday , 30 Jun 2020 6:53PM
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benjl said..
Too many are just focusing on the manufacturing / selling process and no care to what it ends or can be disposed of after then.


That's with everything not just plastic. Even supposedly eco board builders want to sell as much as they can. None make a stronger and longer lasting board which is truely eco friendly. It all waffle to me.

Ian K
WA, 3311 posts
Tuesday , 30 Jun 2020 5:31PM
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Need research to get biodegradable plastics up to an acceptable standard. Starting with fishing line and those ropes that entangle whales.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodegradable_plastic


"Biodegradable plastics are commonly used for disposable items, such as packaging, crockery, cutlery, and food service containers.[3] In principle they could replace many applications for conventional plastics, however cost and performance remain problematic. Their usage is financially favorable only if supported by specific regulations limiting the usage of conventional plastics.[4] For example, biodegradable plastic bags and shoppers have been compulsory in Italy since 2011 with the introduction of a specific law.[5]"








Durability is a big seller for marine rope.

ropegalore.com.au/aquatec-marine-ropes/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7JLn-pup6gIVmAVyCh1JXAG2EAAYASAAEgIQBPD_BwE

UV resistant with excellent weathering properties* Not affected by water & does not absorb water* Excellent Knotting & Splicing

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benjl
393 posts
Tuesday , 30 Jun 2020 6:55PM
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Now that's ironic timing, Donoghys are our preferred rope and twine manufacturer. I met with a new locally made NZ supplier who also makes a lot of rope and twine for the fishing market- I asked them what happens at the end of life for all of the nylon ropes they make and they had no answer aside from 'it goes to landfill '.
I think they had looked in to some bidegradable options but then by nature they started to degrade and mussel farmers lost their catch or lost profits- so no further sales on these.

Imax1
QLD, 2743 posts
Tuesday , 30 Jun 2020 9:17PM
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Lets face it , were slowly killing ourselves , were stuffed . We wont fix it , we cant. We are a growing feeding thing that cant be stopped by ourselves .
Were not killing Earth , just ourselves.
Earth dont care , its got time , it wont even flinch.
One decent meteorite or super volcano , which we are way overdue for , will make our pollution look like chicken feed .

Ian K
WA, 3311 posts
Tuesday , 30 Jun 2020 7:21PM
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benjl said..
Now that's ironic timing, Donoghys are our preferred rope and twine manufacturer. I met with a new locally made NZ supplier who also makes a lot of rope and twine for the fishing market- I asked them what happens at the end of life for all of the nylon ropes they make and they had no answer aside from 'it goes to landfill '.
I think they had looked in to some bidegradable options but then by nature they started to degrade and mussel farmers lost their catch or lost profits- so no further sales on these.


It would have to be law enforced. Rope could be colour coded to year of manufacture. Might have to have a dab of sunscreen automatically applied each time they are reeled in and out. Return for a hefty deposit when 3 years old. Money for old rope.

actiomax
NSW, 1467 posts
Tuesday , 30 Jun 2020 9:25PM
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We can fix it .
It's just a matter of political will .
They stopped production of cars in the Second World War in the USA & within a fortnight the 1st bombers came off the production line & they were punching one out every 6 hrs & that was with a change in the workforce to women as well.
Nothing is impossible .

cisco
QLD, 11765 posts
Tuesday , 30 Jun 2020 9:27PM
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Plastic is essentially a by product of the petroleum industry and no doubt very profitable and therein lies the problem.

$ss = political clout.

In the 50s and 60s plastic was a new thing which had a multitude of uses and was enthusiastically accepted by the main stream. Pollution and the environment were not common words.

The use of plastic has gotten way out of hand and if humanity and all other forms of life are going to survive the use of plastic must be eliminated.

Just about everything we buy these days is packaged in plastic and we do not have a choice in this.

We are in a plastic plague.



www.youtube.com/results?search_query=the+plastic+plague

Imax1
QLD, 2743 posts
Tuesday , 30 Jun 2020 9:36PM
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actiomax said..
We can fix it .
It's just a matter of political will .
They stopped production of cars in the Second World War in the USA & within a fortnight the 1st bombers came off the production line & they were punching one out every 6 hrs & that was with a change in the workforce to women as well.
Nothing is impossible .


I suppose we could fix it , but we wont.
Least the politicians .
They made the bombers so that they have the God given right to make and sell as much plastic as they like .

gs12
WA, 294 posts
Tuesday , 30 Jun 2020 8:58PM
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Everytime I'm at Bunnings (Coles, Woolies etc) I think about all the crap and packaging we all buy. My theory is that about 90% of all that ends up in landfill at the exactly same rate it goes through the supermarket door. It always makes me depressed

Ben1973
398 posts
Wednesday , 1 Jul 2020 12:25AM
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Can't be got rid off, to dependant on it now.
Everything you own or use relies on plastic. Either to make it, make the machine that makes it, packaging, the boat, plane, train , car used to transport it, everything needs plastic. Even the computer /phone your using to complain about it wouldn't exist without plastic.
its like saying we should get rid of air.

holy guacamole
1134 posts
Wednesday , 1 Jul 2020 6:37AM
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So not really "worse than anything else".

and

"Forget everything else".

Noted.

Everything.

Problem solved.

actiomax
NSW, 1467 posts
Wednesday , 1 Jul 2020 9:02AM
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At the waste collection centre they used to have two different bins for the recycling of plastic one for hard & one for soft .
Now they don't.
And plastics are easily recycled.
It's not plastic that's the problem it's what we're doing with it at the end of it's life as a product that's the problem.

Paradox
QLD, 994 posts
Wednesday , 1 Jul 2020 9:41AM
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actiomax said..
At the waste collection centre they used to have two different bins for the recycling of plastic one for hard & one for soft .
Now they don't.
And plastics are easily recycled.
It's not plastic that's the problem it's what we're doing with it at the end of it's life as a product that's the problem.


I generally agree. If anyone has spent time in Japan thier recycling efforts are next level. People have like 6 different bins.

Properly treating plastic and most importantly keeping it out of the waterways and the ocean is the issue. Most of that comes from 3rd world countries though.

I would put plastic in the oceans at or near the top of the list. Most other environmental issues are well addressed these days.

Mr Milk
NSW, 2038 posts
Wednesday , 1 Jul 2020 10:42AM
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Can you tell us more about how easy it is to recycle plastics?
My ancient understanding of plastics is that there are a whole range of monomers which are polymerised and blended with various stabilisers, plasticisers dyes etc. It is difficult to separate them for blending into virgin monomer, so true recycling doesn't happen. What does get done is downcycling into things like garden pots and other short life single use products. I think some plastic waste is being melted into asphalt, but you have to worry about what happens to the estrogen like plasticisers that will gradually leach away from the roadbase into the environment.

decrepit
WA, 10023 posts
Wednesday , 1 Jul 2020 8:49AM
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cisco said..>>>
Just about everything we buy these days is packaged in plastic and we do not have a choice in this.

We are in a plastic plague.



>

benjl
393 posts
Wednesday , 1 Jul 2020 8:58AM
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Mr Milk said..
Can you tell us more about how easy it is to recycle plastics?
My ancient understanding of plastics is that there are a whole range of monomers which are polymerised and blended with various stabilisers, plasticisers dyes etc. It is difficult to separate them for blending into virgin monomer, so true recycling doesn't happen. What does get done is downcycling into things like garden pots and other short life single use products. I think some plastic waste is being melted into asphalt, but you have to worry about what happens to the estrogen like plasticisers that will gradually leach away from the roadbase into the environment.


Incredibly easy and hard at the same time.
the problem is that most countries and even cities have different recycling capabilities which makes an easily recyclable item hard to recycle.
labelling on most products is also highly inconsistent and difficult for consumers to know whether it can actually be recycled or not. Lots of products show recycling symbols but can't be recycled in the cities or countries they are sold - some aren't even a recycle able product but will show a recycling icon 'green-washing' is the marketing term. Same scenario with degradable and compostable items, they need their own waste streams seperately to recycling but often aren't labelled this way.
also some items are fully recyclable but have little or no value when recycled, so often end up at landfill even if they are put in the correct recyclable bin.
Polyprop and Pet strapping are good examples of this. Totally recyclable in their end states, but as they are often coloured- once recycled their value is not high and often ends up going to landfill. Removing the colour in the strap changes everything as now recyclers have a clean slate to re-make in to whatever colour they want, but the clear options don't perform as well in the sun or outdoor wearing. furthermore, waste companies are in it to make money (not just help the planet), so their first interest is usually on-sell profits rather than helping divert a product from landfill.
the more you dig, the more you will find out how broken and complicated the system is.

im trying to work on launching a few ideas in to NZ at the moment but trying to go against the norm is a lot of time and work even if there's interest and commercial viability

decrepit
WA, 10023 posts
Wednesday , 1 Jul 2020 9:03AM
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cisco said..>>>
Just about everything we buy these days is packaged in plastic and we do not have a choice in this.

We are in a plastic plague.



>
I beg to differ, there are alternatives if you avoid the worst culprits, the big super markets, for instance here we have a bulk shop called the "Glass Jar", you bring along your jar, it gets weighed and marked, fill it with yummy stuff and it gets weighed again. Zero plastic used. we have small string bags we take to the fresh veggie shop, to put our fruit and veggies in, again zero plastic. Admitted dairy products all come pre-wrapped. It's the stuff that comes double and triple wrapped from the factory I object to, and would normally look for an alternative.

It's the dollars that count, if stuff doesn't sell because there's too much plastic, things will change. So the solution is in the hands of the average consumer. I wouldn't expect government to make a lot of difference, unless there's strong public support, to make it a positive votes issue

decrepit
WA, 10023 posts
Wednesday , 1 Jul 2020 9:05AM
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What's going on here? two goes at replying to Cisco and both failed, and there's no edit button to change things?
EDIT!
But I can edit this one, really really weird! Shall I try again? Yes, but without a direct quote.

decrepit
WA, 10023 posts
Wednesday , 1 Jul 2020 9:16AM
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Cisco said

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Just about everything we buy these days is packaged in plastic and we do not have a choice in this.


Well there are a few alternatives, we have a local shop called "The Glass Jar" sells every thing in bulk, you bring jars with you, they get weighed and marked, the reweighed after you've filled them with goodies, zero plastic. We also take small string bags to the fresh fruit and veggie shop, again zero plastic.

oscardog
103 posts
Wednesday , 1 Jul 2020 10:30AM
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Does anyone know the percentage of an average windsurfing set up that is not derived from oil and gas?

I think it's a very small percentage.



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"PLASTIC!!!!! Worse than anything else!!!" started by cisco