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busterwa
busterwa
3782 posts
3782 posts
6 Oct 2010 10:05pm
What is your council like?
I have a five acre block in which im tryn to clear native vegetation.The block has some rare fauna and is situated in a Extreme fire zone.
In order to build a house the council says i need a fire exclusion buffer zone.
I applied to clear a 20 metre recomended buffer zone behind the building envelope to protect the house which was rejected by the department of conservation but ordered by the department of fire management.
After almost 12 months of knock backs and inexcess of 7000 dollars later Im still no closer to gaining permission as the block is situated on a "trees for life site"
Turns out that you dont really own the land you purchase.

Seems the preservation of trees is more important than life?
We have seen this in the victorian bushfires and the toodjay bushfire.

The toodjay people are tryn to sue the goverment and "western power".because there houses burnt down.
They should be looking at tryn to sue there council (in which are not taking responcibility) and the dep for not allowing clearing and the implementation enforcement of fire protection zones.If i clear illegally to protect my house i will face fines inexcess of 50,000$

How do you deal with these people diplomatically? They recomend somthing they rejectet it..God its sending us Broke no wonder why im posting **** on here on a saturday night cause i cant afford to go out.

Anyone else had problems with there council.. This would make me feel better....







When is the doc (greenies)going to WAKE up and support fire management and recomended clearing stratagies?
What is the cost of a tree?








These people are responcible for the deaths along with the procedures and implimentations of local councils......
http://www.dec.wa.gov.au/
You placed authorized people to build in an oven with your "save the trees" and you should be held accountable for it.
busterwa
busterwa
3782 posts
3782 posts
6 Oct 2010 11:44pm
i recycle aswell what im asking for is of the dep a :"fair go to protect my fambily and assets"from fire. I have a long list of paper work to hold them negliable and accountable?
Problem is its to late......... the information and according paperwork is in a fireproof safe in the main bedroom. This will not be destroyed in the event of a fire.
You will be held responcible and i hope the doc will be placed on murder charges. Thse ****en greenies should hold responcibility and except the requests of the firebrigades,.
What do you do let your fambily burn to death cause a few uni graduated living in appartments justifyn there existance?
Half theres people rejecting my applications have never experience a fire they live in a 200 square metre ****hole overpopulated box in the city?
Mobydisc
Mobydisc
NSW
9029 posts
NSW, 9029 posts
7 Oct 2010 8:19am
Yeah it sucks you are not allowed to do whats needed to protect your property, or even do what you want on your property.

What can you do? Perhaps you could ask the local rural fire service or whatever its called in WA to come and do a controlled burn off on your property every few years. Is it illegal to do this?



superlizard
superlizard
VIC
702 posts
VIC, 702 posts
7 Oct 2010 8:26am
bunch of freaking useless idiots....
can't stand councils... i don't have a single positive experience with them...

i've also dealt with council with other matters... what i've learned from personal experience and experience of others is you have to take matters in your own hands and figure out "work arounds"... not sure what you would do in your case though... very tricky one... you can always take them to court but then it's $$ issue... maybe try research other court cases similar to your case, and their outcomes... assuming they have positive outcomes, write them a threatening letter that you will take them to court giving them evidence of previous court cases... if this is a matter of safety (as clearly proven during black saturday), then there's gotta be some legislation in place, no???

i went to court once to fight against a boolsh1t parking ticket (and won)... the other time they wouldn't let me replace windows on the front of the house (heritage overlay) as they thought my proposed size was too big, yet they couldn't tell me what size i should put so they said i have to take all the front cladding off on the house so they can see original window cut outs in the old weatherboard which was underneath... i ended up doing that, but also cutting out a bigger window hole in the original weatherboard beneath and then painting the freshly cut edges of the timber to look old like the rest of it... the idiot that made me do it came and bought it ... useless fools... (keep in mind original cutouts were way too small - tiny - like a bunker)

choco
choco
SA
4186 posts
SA, 4186 posts
7 Oct 2010 9:20am
All you got to do Buster is keep an eye out for any council project submissions(notifications) in the paper and send in your written rejection to council....keep doing this whenever something is submitted.....it works!! pisses them off big time...pay backs a bit@h
frant
frant
VIC
1230 posts
VIC, 1230 posts
7 Oct 2010 10:31am
I owned an individually listed heritage building (house) on a corner block with a frontage to a major thoroughfare. I was required to get planning permission for everything. To replace the front and side fence I had to pay the planning permit fee and the council engaged a heritage consultant to determine appropriate fence design. My requirement for a high sound attenuating fence in heritage brick style was knocked back and I had to construct a fence of open design to allow the public view of the building. Never mind that traffic noise drove us crazy. My solution was to withdraw the planning permit and have the fee refunded and simply replace the existing heritage wire fence. I did however plant a dense cyprus hedge which the current owners now allow to grow to about 6 metres high and has fantastic attenuation properties. It does completely obscure the building!
It is rediculous to place such onerous conditions onto the owners of such properties. You don't buy a place like that unless you are willing to upkeep and improve the site.
I take the attitude that we don't "own" our property buster but that we are custodians and should leave them in a better state than when we arrived. In the case of the previous heritage building we undertook a major renovation and extension that actually turned the aspect of the buildings frontage from the short busy thoroughfare frontage to the longer and quieter side frontage, however, unless you knew the building prior to renovation you would be unaware that it was not the original design.
My current property is a 6 acre property with frontage to Lake Connewarre. This brings into play the conflict between council doctrines, conservation values and what we as the custodians consider to be in the best interests of the property. You have to learn the ropes as to how you get all of the conflicting parties to agree with your vision. Good luck with it Buster and don't let it get you down.
Sailhack
Sailhack
VIC
5000 posts
VIC, 5000 posts
8 Oct 2010 10:23am
busterwa said...

What is your council like?
I have a five acre block in which im tryn to clear native vegetation.The block has some rare fauna and is situated in a Extreme fire zone.
In order to build a house the council says i need a fire exclusion buffer zone.
I applied to clear a 20 metre recomended buffer zone behind the building envelope to protect the house which was rejected by the department of conservation but ordered by the department of fire management.
After almost 12 months of knock backs and inexcess of 7000 dollars later Im still no closer to gaining permission as the block is situated on a "trees for life site"
Turns out that you dont really own the land you purchase.

Seems the preservation of trees is more important than life?
We have seen this in the victorian bushfires and the toodjay bushfire.

The toodjay people are tryn to sue the goverment and "western power".because there houses burnt down.
They should be looking at tryn to sue there council (in which are not taking responcibility) and the dep for not allowing clearing and the implementation enforcement of fire protection zones.If i clear illegally to protect my house i will face fines inexcess of 50,000$
How do you deal with these people diplomatically? They recomend somthing they rejectet it..God its sending us Broke no wonder why im posting **** on here on a saturday night cause i cant afford to go out.

Anyone else had problems with there council.. This would make me feel better....


Buster, I deal with councils regularly on these matters. From what you've admitted, (and not to start an argument with you, because I fully understand where you're coming from) these issues should've been researched prior to purchasing the property. In most cases, land is bought relatively cheap, and the purchasers don't investigate the possibility of future development and 'go in blind'. Otherwise, they purchase a block with intention to develop, and permission to do so, and over time the authorities change overlays, zonings etc. (happens here a lot!) Don't go ahead and clear the block in anger, because your $7k will turn into $57k pretty fast!

In saying this, and as that's in the past...your best avenue is to persist with gaining support from the regulatory departments, which could mean some negotiation. Based on our local process, if you can meet the requirements of all authorities involved and gain their support, then you only have to deal with the planning dept. If the proposal is then rejected, you have a very good case to get the decision overturned at a tribunal hearing.

My advice would be to book an appointment with a planning consultant, or lawyer that deals in planning matters...best money spent. We have clients regularly who battle the councils to try to build houses on sensitive sites, or where they have opposition from objectors, many go to VCAT and win! Where the application is more difficult, they employ a highly-experienced legal team and generally win. Most councils will now suggest VCAT as the mediator to resolve planning matters, and to take that responsibility from the council's hands.
Sailhack
Sailhack
VIC
5000 posts
VIC, 5000 posts
8 Oct 2010 12:46pm
Just to add, you could also be fighting a losing battle, and the advice from your lawyer might be to not throw good money after bad.

One example for a good outcome is a local family with some beachfront property purchased over 10 years ago, with intention & permission to build recently went to VCAT after their application was rejected by council. With their lawyers in tow, they won...cost them around $80k in total before even starting to build, but the outcome is that their coastal land is now worth about $1mill with an approved planning permit, instead of 10acres of farm land @$3.5k per acre!

On the flip-side, an example of how things can go terribly wrong - local farmer (father & son) got planning approval to develop farmland along the coast, did all road works, connections etc. was looking at a windfall in profits with each block (under 1/2 acre each >$300k). Suddenly a development overlay was put into place by the Vic gov't and the result was heaps of very small paddocks with road access to each that can never be built on, suitable for farming only (and due to coastal location, near worthless). After fighting the losing battle at VCAT & in the courts, both father & son had to declare bankrupcy, soon followed by a mortgagee's auction!

Planning dept's are a beast all of their own!
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