Qld Teachers Striking - 19/5/09

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elizabethb
elizabethb
QLD
2081 posts
QLD, 2081 posts
13 May 2009 8:51pm
Opinions of those following the 24 hour strike that is officially going to occur?

Beginning teacher salaries have fallen behind that of the average weekly earnings of workers in Australia. Currently the salary of a beginning teacher is 81.7 per cent that of the average weekly ordinary time earnings for Australian workers(AWOTE). In 1984 beginning teachers' salaries were 101.4 per cent in comparison to AWOTE. In the last 25 years beginning teacher salaries have fallen by over 19 per cent in comparison to AWOTE.


http://www.qtu.asn.au/387.html
windykid
windykid
QLD
368 posts
QLD, 368 posts
13 May 2009 9:01pm
WOOT... day off school

any day without school is a good day
Richiefish
Richiefish
QLD
5612 posts
QLD, 5612 posts
13 May 2009 9:02pm
I support the teachers....striking in this day and age is usually the last resort of a desperate cause .....
theDoctor
theDoctor
NSW
5786 posts
NSW, 5786 posts
14 May 2009 2:33pm
^^^ especially when you work for yourself and the surf is up or the wind is good, then i get desperate and go on strike.

greenleader
greenleader
QLD
5283 posts
QLD, 5283 posts
14 May 2009 4:15pm
did anyone mention they have 12 weeks fully paid holidays!!!!!!!!
and there workday is 9-3!!!!
so there wage should be a little less maybe!!!!

windykid
windykid
QLD
368 posts
QLD, 368 posts
14 May 2009 4:50pm
greenleader said...

did anyone mention they have 12 weeks fully paid holidays!!!!!!!!
and there workday is 9-3!!!!
so there wage should be a little less maybe!!!!




hey alot of effort goes into teaching brats like us and plus i want a day off school so there
FormulaNova
FormulaNova
WA
15105 posts
WA, 15105 posts
14 May 2009 2:52pm
greenleader said...

did anyone mention they have 12 weeks fully paid holidays!!!!!!!!
and there workday is 9-3!!!!
so there wage should be a little less maybe!!!!




I think that increasing the rates of pay in these types of roles can only be better for the community. I think they should pay police more too.

I would argue that by paying more for these roles you would encourage the best of these types of people to stay in the job and not go into the private sector. Surely that must be better for the education of students?

I look at teachers' holiday entitlements too and think they look good, but would you do that job? I don't think that amount of leave would make up for the time in front of the kids...
NotWal
NotWal
QLD
7436 posts
QLD, 7436 posts
14 May 2009 10:35pm
greenleader said...

did Did anyone mention they have 12 weeks fully paid holidays!!!!!!!!(terminators followed by a conjunction)
and there their work day is 9-3!!!!(ditto)
so there their wage should be a little less maybe!!!!




Hmmm... the old school was good enough for some
Raise the pay and raise the standard too. Excellent teachers are rare and valuable.
greenleader
greenleader
QLD
5283 posts
QLD, 5283 posts
15 May 2009 12:02am
whoops, i'm the spelling nazi and i faultered!

but i don't use capitals on the internet. (not worth the effort!)

thanx for the analysys walster.

still doesn't explain 12 weeks paid holiday! [;)

p.s. the only people reading this thread are in teaching positions anyway and like red thumbing dissent!

p.p.s. i have to employ the little sh1*s that the teachers release into society!

lord have mercy.....bring back the cane!
Dawn Patrol
Dawn Patrol
WA
1991 posts
WA, 1991 posts
14 May 2009 10:22pm
greenleader said...

did anyone mention they have 12 weeks fully paid holidays!!!!!!!!
and there workday is 9-3!!!!
so there wage should be a little less maybe!!!!




I sort of agree with you. They start the job knowing what the pay is going to be, then they complain about it.
Sure they have to deal with smart arse kids etc, but i recon the pay rises should be going to police/firemen.
Bondalucci
Bondalucci
VIC
1580 posts
VIC, 1580 posts
15 May 2009 12:31am
From my experience, I can tell you that many teachers who took the opportunity to go on the "teacher release into industry" program (Gov initiative to give teachers the chance to experience life in the real world with the hope of them returning to the classroom better able to pass experiences on to their students)

Guess what? .....Many never went back to teaching! Guess the holidays didn't quite swing it, Greeny.

BTW, if you think 9 to 3, then you are dreaming! Just about all preparation and correction has to be done at home these days. There's also no option of overtime, time and a half, or RDO's, like some other occupations enjoy.

It comes down to 2 things.
- You've got to see what you're doing as valuable
- You've got to enjoy working with the pro's and con's of young people

greenleader
greenleader
QLD
5283 posts
QLD, 5283 posts
15 May 2009 12:58am
there also seem to be an alarming number of "pupil free days" where school children seem to be able to wander the malls whilst the teachers prepare for teaching. whats going on there?

no emoticons this time.
elizabethb
elizabethb
QLD
2081 posts
QLD, 2081 posts
15 May 2009 1:29am
Cheers guys

It was interesting to see some of your opinions; Greenie, I expected you to stir the pot.

9-3 HAH lol.... It's 12:30am and I'm just going to bed after marking 27 books with today's reading activities from five different books; let alone entering my soccer teams details into one school; marking the QCATs and submitting the results; e-mailing parents, organizing buddies, managing behaviour.. planning.. I'm stopping there as this space doesn't give me enough room! lol

As a first year out teacher, I personally think it will be interesting to see what effect the strike has on salaries, if any (let alone a fairly new QTU member).
Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14969 posts
QLD, 14969 posts
15 May 2009 1:38am
i'm all for teachers getting paid more money,

ie. better wage better outcome.

but i don't believe the private school teachers are striking?

that says it all really.

get rid of the unions and the teachers will get paid more.

excuse me while i step into my flame suit.

Mobydisc
Mobydisc
NSW
9029 posts
NSW, 9029 posts
15 May 2009 8:08am
Private teachers have their own union and most private school teachers, except those with strong anti-union ideologies would be supporting public school teachers.

Why do people think that teachers only work during class time? How is it possible to prepare four to six hours of activities every working day during class time? Do people in other professions prepare seminars and sales pitches during those activities? In the first couple of years of teaching as a rough estimate an hour of preparation is needed for every hour of class time. Then you see that preparation go down the drain half the time but thats part of the learning experience.

Its like saying a shop keeper works from 9 to 5 on his own with twenty five customers inside. It would be impossible. People moan and groan about the amount of school holidays. However if you look at many other jobs with flex time and RDOs along with seeing how most public holidays fall in school holidays, there is little difference between the amount of leave taken.

If you need leave as a teacher during term time you have to prepare lessons for your replacement. What other jobs requires you to do this?

The main fact that comes out of this strike is Queensland puts itself up as being the smart state. At the same time the QLD government wants to pay its teachers less than any other state in Australia. Do Queensland politicians get paid considerably less than those in other states too?
evlPanda
evlPanda
NSW
9207 posts
NSW, 9207 posts
15 May 2009 10:42am
Mobydisc said...
How is it possible to prepare four to six hours of activities every working day during class time?


Use last year's prep.

I know what you're saying though, I used to tutor at TAFE and University and the ratio of prep to delivery is actually about 3:1. That said curriculum doesn't change that much from year to year.

I enjoyed it though and am planning to go back to it if/when I semi-retire.
sbray
sbray
SA
350 posts
SA, 350 posts
15 May 2009 10:13am
greenleader said...

whoops, i'm the spelling nazi and i faultered faltered!

but i don't use capitals on the internet. (not worth the effort!)

thanx Thanks for the analysys analysis walster.

still doesn't explain 12 weeks paid holiday! [;)

p.s. the only people reading this thread are in teaching positions anyway and like red thumbing dissent!

p.p.s. i have to employ the little sh1*s that the teachers release into society!

lord have mercy.....bring back the cane!


Take 3 for the spelling Nazi ?

Greenleader, if you are keen enough, perhaps we could convince Laurie & crew to have a spelling rating (score out of 10) alongside the thumbs!
evlPanda
evlPanda
NSW
9207 posts
NSW, 9207 posts
15 May 2009 10:47am
airush geoff
airush geoff
974 posts
974 posts
15 May 2009 8:50am
I used to date a school teachers daughter, every night I would be kicking back drinking a beer and watching tv after dinner while she did marking....there are some teachers I am sure who do not go to alot of effort but most I would argue put in more than a 40 hour week, probably closer to 50 or 60 hours.
poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
15 May 2009 8:58am
I want my daughter to be inspired, excited and motivated to attain the highest standard of education she can.

To achieve this she needs enthusiastic, inspiring and motivated teachers who get great job satisfaction seeing their pupils succeed and go on to bigger and better things

To have teachers like this they need to feel supported, respected and valued.

Substantial pay rises will go some way to achieving this. So i'm all for it.
NotWal
NotWal
QLD
7436 posts
QLD, 7436 posts
15 May 2009 11:38am
Gestalt said...

i'm all for teachers getting paid more money,

ie. better wage better outcome.

but i don't believe the private school teachers are striking?

that says it all really.

get rid of the unions and the teachers will get paid more.

excuse me while i step into my flame suit.




Huh!? spoken from the heart obviously. Next time try a thinking organ :)
getfunky
getfunky
WA
4485 posts
WA, 4485 posts
15 May 2009 11:39am
Pay peanuts - you get monkeys.


Teachers are a bit like nurses (and probably coppers/fireies etc) in that most of the people who go into this career do it for the desire to be a teacher and be good at the job (obviously not for the glamour or $$$ ). This is consistantly taken advantage of by every govt and they are very undervalued.


BTW Liz - you haven't been on the job a year yet and already walkin out?? WTF?? You haven't even earnt a nice teacher's jacket with padded elbows yet? Just kidding.. good luck getting some decent pay/conditions Lithbeth.
Tux
Tux
VIC
3829 posts
Tux Tux
VIC, 3829 posts
15 May 2009 2:10pm
Surely if they are doing 10 - 20 hours a week OT thats unpaid it works out as time in lui with all the holidays they get? Suer pay them more but only pay them for the time they work not the time they are on holidya or on student free days etc etc.
surfinchick
surfinchick
251 posts
251 posts
15 May 2009 12:17pm
What performance standards do teachers have?
What about payment or bonuses on achieving results. Literacy and numeracy standards have dramatically declined in recent years. If a student does not achieve the required competency standard by the end of the year, has the teacher performed their role competently?
Are a students skills and abilities measured at the beginning and end of the school year to show the progress made?
I know we could debate the students prerequisite achievements, testing methodology and many other variables that could have an effect, but it's something to consider...pay them a base rate and bonus if the students achieve the required level of learning.

Can I borrow that suit Gestalt?
FormulaNova
FormulaNova
WA
15105 posts
WA, 15105 posts
15 May 2009 1:18pm
surfinchick said...

What performance standards do teachers have?
What about payment or bonuses on achieving results. Literacy and numeracy standards have dramatically declined in recent years. If a student does not achieve the required competency standard by the end of the year, has the teacher performed their role competently?
Are a students skills and abilities measured at the beginning and end of the school year to show the progress made?
I know we could debate the students prerequisite achievements, testing methodology and many other variables that could have an effect, but it's something to consider...pay them a base rate and bonus if the students achieve the required level of learning.

Can I borrow that suit Gestalt?


The simplest way I can think of to affect the performance of teachers is to pay them more. Over a period of time all the crap ones will get pushed aside as there is more competition for their jobs, and naturally the ones employed become better.

If there was a higher demand for teaching placements because of increased wages, you would think that would drive up the entrance requirements to uni, which "may" increase the standard of teaching.

I can't see how it would be possible to measure a teachers performance as there are so many variables.

It seems the politicians apply this logic to their own profession but not to others...

Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14969 posts
QLD, 14969 posts
15 May 2009 4:36pm
well i figure it's like this notwal,

it's easier to ask for a raise if you are one person,

if you ask for a raise and that menas 10,000 other people need to get one then you are going to get short changed somewhere.

allowing teachers to agree on their own individual value will go a long way to giving them the ability to increase there wage.

those that are very good and comitted at teaching... ie. those that live and breathe it will always get more than those that just go through the processes when you don't have union involvment.

NotWal said...

Gestalt said...

i'm all for teachers getting paid more money,

ie. better wage better outcome.

but i don't believe the private school teachers are striking?

that says it all really.

get rid of the unions and the teachers will get paid more.

excuse me while i step into my flame suit.




Huh!? spoken from the heart obviously. Next time try a thinking organ :)


NotWal
NotWal
QLD
7436 posts
QLD, 7436 posts
15 May 2009 5:05pm
Gestalt said...

well i figure it's like this notwal,

it's easier to ask for a raise if you are one person,

if you ask for a raise and that menas 10,000 other people need to get one then you are going to get short changed somewhere.

allowing teachers to agree on their own individual value will go a long way to giving them the ability to increase there wage.

those that are very good and comitted at teaching... ie. those that live and breath it will always get more than those that just go through the processes when you don't have union involvment.

NotWal said...

Gestalt said...

i'm all for teachers getting paid more money,

ie. better wage better outcome.

but i don't believe the private school teachers are striking?

that says it all really.

get rid of the unions and the teachers will get paid more.

excuse me while i step into my flame suit.




Huh!? spoken from the heart obviously. Next time try a thinking organ :)





Oh I see what you mean: union = uniform salaries
But all public service is to a budget and uniform pay scales.
What you are advocating seems to be individual employment contracts.
Hmmm... that's a different argument I think, no?
elizabethb
elizabethb
QLD
2081 posts
QLD, 2081 posts
15 May 2009 7:47pm
getfunky said...

BTW Liz - you haven't been on the job a year yet and already walkin out?? WTF?? You haven't even earnt a nice teacher's jacket with padded elbows yet? Just kidding.. good luck getting some decent pay/conditions Lithbeth.


lol Ian, I'm not walking anywhere!
I had 4 days off sick last week and struggled to come to terms with handing them over to the very able, well known, regular school supply teachers. I did all four days planning, PowerPoints, worksheets, homework, spelling activities while home sick because I wanted my class (all 27 of them) in the same routine that has taken a whole term to get comfortable with. I wrote the class and 1.5 page letter on the first day I was away which was shown to them on the data projector about expectations etc.

The feedback I was given about their behaviour and overall work, was that their behaviour was exemplary and how far this class has come (considering it was planned for a particular male teacher with specific difficult personality and troublesome students).

Cheers Ian!

Another average Friday night where I'm at school till 5:45 organising next weeks activities, marking reading workshop activities (all 27) and organising the classroom with a new space themed classroom. etc. Home sweet home with 13 more books left to mark while watching the footy! Go Broncos

But surfinchick, I know... they have discussed previously about wages being based upon student results or improvement; but, ethically, how can one be judged on students RESULTS/ improvement only when the following effects how a student learns:

  • school might receive less funding

  • have less volunteers

  • a smaller amount of learning support p/w

  • small amount/ old resources

  • schools which is in a low socio-economic area

  • ESL students

  • special ed students



A teacher has to demonstrate throughout each term of the year how they are meeting the Queensland College of Teachers (QCT) Professional Standards (10 of them) in each KLA and for students who have learning support, ESL and special needs.

We have to demonstrate how we are catering for all students diverse learning needs, which range from adjusting the curriculum, supporting them with resources, having learning support, peer-support etc.

A teacher also has to demonstrate to Education Queensland Professional Standards (12 of them) which give a basis for teachers to identify and continue PD; informs their curriculum development and represents the aspirations of a teacher in the profession.

Teachers also have to complete a minimum of 50 hours Professional Development per year; which gives them the opportunity to update their knowledge and skills etc.
getfunky
getfunky
WA
4485 posts
WA, 4485 posts
15 May 2009 5:57pm
As far as literacy levels go..

Dunno about other states or schools by my 1st grader is expected to be a very good writer and reader by now. Personally, I was shocked at the level expected at this age and it seems to me another education dept knee-jerk reaction to the previous decade of decline.

Whilst it is good to aim high I think there is already too much pressure on 5/6 yr olds and that seems a bit rough to me.

My lad has been lucky enough to have 3 exceptional teachers and one nutcase (who basically burnt out and brokedown). The school's principal, unfortunately, is an incompetant knob but I can't help but be impressed with the involvement, interest and extra efforts the 3 teachers mentioned have gone to. They deserve better than they get for sure.

If everyone, in every profession worked as hard and commited as the above teachers, for the same reward, we would be living in utopia. And everyne would have deluxe holidays too.

BTW I agree that the results = reward philosophy is flawed. You would simply end up with lower socio-economic area schools being a dumping ground for dud teachers, creating even more of a cycle of ill-educated. Not that that doesn't happen to an extent already - but it would increase the problem I reckon.


Rock on Lithbeth - hope your kids gave you a nice juicy apple when you came back.
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
15 May 2009 7:48pm
Teachers should be only partly paid by the Government.....
The majority of their pay should come from the private sector.
One day your kids will be attending a MAC-UNI where they can gain their PhD in the flipping of burgers.
Schools are just human resource factories and teachers are the assembly-line operators manning the collegiate conveyor belt.
The workers of the future are mass-produced and off-loaded onto the factory floor where the corporate world eats them up and spits them out.
lol.
greenleader
greenleader
QLD
5283 posts
QLD, 5283 posts
16 May 2009 12:58am
waveslave said...

Teachers should be only partly paid by the Government.....
The majority of their pay should come from the private sector.


the private sector rewards hard workers that provide results!

by my own school observations, most of the government adoration collectors (teachers) that taught, (loose term here) favoured a select number of students from early in the new school year and gave up (read gave high marks to the sucks)
yes ignored those in need.

p.s. i didn't need help. only now.

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