Queensland's "Climate Smart" Program.

> 10 years ago
Reply
Register to post, see what you've read, and subscribe to topics.
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
1 Jun 2011 10:05pm
Most likely other states have a similar program. This is how it works in Qld. It is an initiative of the Qld. Govt.

You ring up on their number and make an appointment. A contracted electrician is sent to your place who after having a look at your last power bill and your general house hold arrangement, completes a questionnaire on his laptop and then gives you some advices on conserving electricity.

You pay him $50 and he gives you 10 energy saver lights (bayonet or Edison screw flouro types) which is at least $50s worth. He also gives you a restricted flow shower head (same as you can buy in shops for $20).

Then he gives you the real $50s worth which is a power usage monitor which consists of a sensor/sender unit he installs in your meter box and the receiver/reader unit which you keep on top of the fridge or other conspicuous location.

The beauty of it of course is that it puts your power consumption in your face and you soon learn what chews the most juice.

Would you believe that a vacuum cleaner costs 11c/hour to run!!

Far and away the highest consumer of electricity is the 250 litre electric storage hot water system. It is estimated that 50% of the cost of running it is in just keeping the water hot and the rest is actual usage of hot water.

We have taken to having the system switched on for 4 hours to heat the full tank and then having it switched off for 48 to 60 hours or till when a hot shower needs no cold water to make the heat comfortable. We are not able to afford the meter work to convert to "off peak" yet so we have created our own system. Also considering a timer set in the feed cable to the HWS.

It seems to be working according to the usage reader and I am determined to halve our next power bill from the last one's figure of $434. Also looking at installing a gas instant HWS, being a Bosch Turbo Heat of the lowest flow rate (6l/min I think). The Bosch instants do not rely on a pilot flame or power feed for ignition. The ignition is activated by the pressure drop when the tap is opened.

The ultimate is to have my urban home completely off the power grid with solar water heating panels supplemented by gas heating as required and photovoltaic panels for lighting and entertainment. Gas cooking is a given.

The "Help save the planet and feed into the power grid deal" in my opinion is a con job that subsidises industry power consumption.

Does anybody know a better way to manage my HWS power usage apart from having cold showers??
ginger pom
ginger pom
VIC
1746 posts
VIC, 1746 posts
1 Jun 2011 11:22pm
I thought you'd be all angry when I read the title but I was pleasantly surprised...

Interesting how putting the meter in people's houses makes more of a difference than anything else.

We're getting a smart meter next week and I'm not entirely sure how smart it will be - apart from making 40C+ days more expensive to run the air conditioning on.



wormy
wormy
QLD
679 posts
QLD, 679 posts
2 Jun 2011 7:27am
Gas HWS will cost more to run than a heat pump HWS or solar HWS but will use basiclly no electricity, ( it will probably require electric ignition, i.e. plug into power point to ignite when water starts going thru it)
Heat pumps use bugger all power and solar even less, personnaly I can go for 3 rainy days before turning on the booster to my solar HWS.
My latest power bill had an average 4.5 kw a day.
My basis on HWS come from completing my solar hot water endorsment to add to my plumbing liscence.
Solar endorsment is required for all QLD plumbers from the start of this year, ask your plumber to show you, this endorsment also includes installation of heat pump and all solar installations and must be completed to be able to install these systems.
Carantoc
Carantoc
WA
7283 posts
WA, 7283 posts
2 Jun 2011 10:10am
Shower with a friend. oceanfire might still be looking to share some 'skills'. He could lather, you could rub.

Or try doing what 80% of the worlds population does and heat your water with coal / wood / peat / camel dung.

Get a Rayburn / Aga or other such device, heat your water and your house for zero electricity. Cancel your gym membership and walk 20km each day to collect wood

But - what is your plan to store electricity ? Solar panels would be great if you could store the electricity. Other than modifying your loft space to take 300 car batteries what are the options for not feeding solar into the grid, and using the grid as a giant battery.

Would buying a hydrogen fuel cell car and putting it under your floor be logical, use the any excess solar to convert to hydrogen in the day and then burn it to make electricity after dark ? - probably nor the best explaination, but I am sure you get what I mean.

felixdcat
felixdcat
WA
3519 posts
WA, 3519 posts
2 Jun 2011 10:32am
Saving tip for gas users.

Tell Alinta gas to disconnect you from the grid and get a plumber to install a 2x 80 L gas bottle unit at the back of the house. I have that at my place cost $90.00 every 6 month, (2 people household cooking BBQ and hot water) to replace 1 cylinder, you do not need to touch anything the Gas Guy comes to you and do it the following day after you call and charge you credit card.
dinsdale
dinsdale
WA
1227 posts
WA, 1227 posts
2 Jun 2011 12:37pm
I live in a town where some parts have distributed gas and some are on bottles. I was on bottles in my last house and am now on town gas. The latter is less expensive - for us at least (2 people). Both houses had gas hws (instant) and cooking. That said, there's not a lot in it, so probably not much to gain/lose.

Solar hws with gas boosting is cheaper to run than with electric boosting. However, my folks, in Perth, have had solar hws for >30 years now, so pretty old tech. Dad turned the electric booster off (in his meter box) when it was new and has never had to turn it on again. (it's all cusilman bronze - still doesn't look like dying). Even in Perth's winters the water will heat enough for an acceptable shower. Btw, modern solar is quite efficient enough year 'round even down here in Albany. The biggest problem with solar is the initial cost and no realistic likelihood of having one last like my ol' man's.

There are new(ish) solar hws out there now which use a different technology, and are very efficient - evacuated tube technology.
See here:
http://www.hillssolar.com.au/en-AU/Products/Collectors
and here:
www.apricus.com/
These are so efficient that their main problem is boiling the water!

Solar aside, for 2 people instant gas is the cheapest to run. Some of the new ones have little "magic wands" (like tele remotes) so that you can set the temp water you want. Each person can have their shower just how they like it without having to add cold water. So, what we (nearly) all do now is spend the money to make the water steaming hot, then we add cold water to be able to use it. Huge waste there. These instant ones save all that energy.

The vast bulk of household energy expenditure in Oz is for heating and cooling - water, food, space. If you want to trim down the energy bills that's where you'll make the biggest gains. There are of course all the piffling little things people bang on about like lights, standby power etc. They will make a difference, but only minor compared to the heating/cooling.

My 2c worth
WaynoB
WaynoB
NSW
393 posts
NSW, 393 posts
2 Jun 2011 2:55pm
ginger pom said...

I thought you'd be all angry when I read the title but I was pleasantly surprised...

Interesting how putting the meter in people's houses makes more of a difference than anything else.

We're getting a smart meter next week and I'm not entirely sure how smart it will be - apart from making 40C+ days more expensive to run the air conditioning on.






Think the now defunct NSW State Govt. made "Smart Meters" part of the deal when setting up Solar Power Panels for mains usage. Heard that these "Smart Meters" hit you hard when using power in the peak periods (up around 40c/kwh, and reduce fairly dramatically for non-peak periods.

So if you want to wash-up, vacuum or use a dishwasher, watch TV etc. after midnight it will be much cheaper, and we all want to do that don't we?

IMO another great idea by the ousted Labor Party (NOT)! The poor normal users are paying vastly inflated costs for electricity to support the new Solar Panel users.

Not happy Jan. The Qld. initiative is sound and cr**s on the NSW one.
dinsdale
dinsdale
WA
1227 posts
WA, 1227 posts
2 Jun 2011 1:52pm
We opted for smart power when we installed the solar panels - it wasn't a requirement. With just the 2 of us it took very little to adapt our lifestyle to minimize peak usage. That sure wouldn't have been the case when we had 5 teenagers at home though.

In WA you go onto the 10c tariff at 9:00pm (until 7:00 am). Weekends here are charged at 16c 7:00am to 9:00pm and 10c 9:00pm to 7:00am, so it's cheaper than normal (21c) all weekend. Being night owls it's no trouble to put a load of washing on at around 9:00pm and we usually hang it out next morning. Sucking the floors we usually do at the weekend, but sometimes at night. That's pretty much all we changed, and now it's habit. We're now net providers with very minimal changes.
GypsyDrifter
GypsyDrifter
WA
2371 posts
WA, 2371 posts
2 Jun 2011 3:43pm
felixdcat said...

Saving tip for gas users.

Tell Alinta gas to disconnect you from the grid and get a plumber to install a 2x 80 L gas bottle unit at the back of the house. I have that at my place cost $90.00 every 6 month, (2 people household cooking BBQ and hot water) to replace 1 cylinder, you do not need to touch anything the Gas Guy comes to you and do it the following day after you call and charge you credit card.



We are going to have that when we move bottles that is, looking forward to it..
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
2 Jun 2011 8:41pm
we just had a letter letting us kknow that the 40c deal for our solar excess wiil now be a 20c deal, but as we signed a deal for 40c we will keep at that rate.
the bloody folliticians just dont want to be the ones to start making a difference do they( sorry to talk politics Laurie )
we have just added gas heating to our cost . last year when out cutting firewood I realized that there were very few good logs on the ground, and that in the area I was in , you could always find signs of echidnas digging . last year nothing. despite being a small town in a vast hardwood forest, we are cutting too much wood. this year we are all gas, so it will be interesting to see how the bills go.
Thanx for the info on the new types of solar panels. our panels are 17 years old are both have blown twice now, but the tank is stainless steel which doesnt need changing.
one suggestion for electric boosted solar owners is to only heat for 1/2 hr thats all it takes to really crank the temp back up.
my lot will switch it on for 2 hours or more[:( ]
FlySurfer
FlySurfer
NSW
4460 posts
NSW, 4460 posts
2 Jun 2011 10:52pm
Quick quick, without a Carbon Tax there won't be any electricians.
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
3 Jun 2011 1:15am
Modern urban housing "off the power grid" is not a myth.

The CSIRO proved the viability of it over 30 years ago in Canberra.

What happened to the DATA??????
Paradox
Paradox
QLD
1326 posts
QLD, 1326 posts
3 Jun 2011 10:42am
cisco said...

Modern urban housing "off the power grid" is not a myth.

The CSIRO proved the viability of it over 30 years ago in Canberra.

What happened to the DATA??????


Not hard at all, in fact many rural properties survive quite well off the grid. Solar panels and large banks of batteries work well - especially if backed up by a generator.

The question is whether the cost of the alternative equipment required to be self sufficient ($ and carbon) is lower than an energy efficient house on the grid.

I do agree the solar and sell back to the grid is not sustainable and essentially a ponzi scheme. Governments are just starting to realise that those that can afford to own a house to put the panels on are being subsidised by the lower income demographic that cannot. I suspect rates will eventually be slashed like in NSW.

I own a rural property (weekender) where I could set up a huge solar system and pump 100% back into the grid day in day out for a very nice return. Seeing as my return would be paid for by others through passed on higher eletricity rates (someone has to pay for huge relative cost of my electricity) I chose not to do it. Others are not so like minded.
felixdcat
felixdcat
WA
3519 posts
WA, 3519 posts
3 Jun 2011 9:24am
GypsyDrifter said...

felixdcat said...

Saving tip for gas users.

Tell Alinta gas to disconnect you from the grid and get a plumber to install a 2x 80 L gas bottle unit at the back of the house. I have that at my place cost $90.00 every 6 month, (2 people household cooking BBQ and hot water) to replace 1 cylinder, you do not need to touch anything the Gas Guy comes to you and do it the following day after you call and charge you credit card.



We are going to have that when we move bottles that is, looking forward to it..

It is abig saving......... but remember to have all the gaz appliances you may have used on the Alinta gas supply need to be reset by a gas fitter as they will need different type injectors.
I like the new avatar
teatrea
teatrea
QLD
4177 posts
QLD, 4177 posts
3 Jun 2011 2:30pm
Hot water is the biggest user of power in your home , pool pumps next , aircons and refrigeration about 15% depending on how many you have.You can put your electric hw on offpeak , although offpeak is also going up rapidly.

You can go gas but LPG is more expensive than power when it comes to heating water.Or you can go heatpump or solar.Heat pumps will have an average life of 10 years if your lucky , and are noisy and efficiency varies greatly depending on installlation.Evacuated tubes are not new technology and for most places in Australia will cause problems with overheating , they are also no more efficient than flat plate collectors in the 50c to 65C temp range.


dinsdale
dinsdale
WA
1227 posts
WA, 1227 posts
3 Jun 2011 1:06pm
Paradox said...
Seeing as my return would be paid for by others through passed on higher eletricity rates (someone has to pay for huge relative cost of my electricity) I chose not to do it. Others are not so like minded.

When I enquired about the 40c pay-back vs the 21c cost from the grid I was told that the 40c was the actual cost of production. So they're paying us the same as it costs them to produce. The 21c/unit was a subsidised price, and that was the explanation as to why the electricity costs were rising so rapidly - user pays.

Paradox
Paradox
QLD
1326 posts
QLD, 1326 posts
10 Jun 2011 12:15pm
dinsdale said...

Paradox said...
Seeing as my return would be paid for by others through passed on higher eletricity rates (someone has to pay for huge relative cost of my electricity) I chose not to do it. Others are not so like minded.

When I enquired about the 40c pay-back vs the 21c cost from the grid I was told that the 40c was the actual cost of production. So they're paying us the same as it costs them to produce. The 21c/unit was a subsidised price, and that was the explanation as to why the electricity costs were rising so rapidly - user pays.




I think what you find that they are saying is that the additional 19c you recieve over the retail price is what is subsidised by the government. ie it's a government handout to make the panels more attractive cost wise. The cost of electricity is the 21c you mentioned. Less actually as if you take tariff 33 etc into account and the special deals large commercial users get it is a lot less on the whole.

My beef is not necessarily with normal households who take this up. It is with a poorly thought out subsidy that can be rorted by those that are not interested in anything else but lining thier own pocket and I know a number of cases of people with plenty of cash setting up huge systems at properties that are otherwise not generally users of electricity. ie they are merely taking the cash off the government by selling electricity at twice retail. Guess who pays for this?
Please Register, or first...
Topics Subscribe Reply