japie said...
Not the case. They evolved cooperating and progressed thorugh cooperation.
the fact that they progressed cooperatng just proves that they were/are good at it. imagine that to live we both need food A and food B. I own all of the A food and you all of the B food. Even if I wanted to hoard all the food for myself, I'd be forced to trade, to cooperate with you to have both, or I'll die, and the same applies for you (in the hypothetical case). Maybe we'll both become really good and grow more of each food, but if we need each other to survive, it's no free choice, so it doesn't prove that "this is the natural way"
japie said...
It is our nature to cooperate. What incentive is there to be corrupt in a primitive society. Anthropological evidence shows that. We developed highly complex language through our need to communicate.
Have a look at chimpanzees in the wild. Young ones often have fruit stolen from them by bigger ones who cannot reach the outer branches but on the rare occasion they kill a colobus the ranking of the individual who catches it allows it immunity from food theft and will actually share with chosen table mates.
so chimpanzees A got his food stolen by BigB. BigB then use his power (in our society: his social position, his connection, his money, his violence) to provide a resource (again, could be anything) that he shares with WHO HE WANTS so chimp D, F, and H. A got nothing, BigB got immunity, A's food and part of his resource.
Yeah, totally uninterested and sharing mate, BigB!
japie said...
You cannot just fob off the issue with an opinion, particularly one as important as this. Corruption of power on this globe is the root cause of so much misery. To address the problem you need to understand it's root cause.
I believe that corrupt behaviour developed in homo sapiens when we stopped moving with the food and began to cultivate our own. We got good at it and communities grew and prospered. We learned to grow more food than we needed and we learned to store it.
Then nature delivered a curly one and chucked in climate change or some such and famine drew people to stealing and protecting food. By then we had forgotten how to truly live off the land so we stole and killed others in order to eat. That is when cartels developed as people promised food in return for protection. Growing food was tough work so the hungry were put to work by the newly powerful and the whole sorry mess spiralled out of control as fences and walls were built and people began to lay claim to the globe.
not an human invention. even monkey's trade money (YES, money) for services, food, and stuff. some scientists taught some monkeys that if they (monke) gave to the scientists some coin-shaped tokens, they would be able to get food.
after a while monkeys were stealing tokens from each other, and some were having sex with other monkeys in exchange of tokens. yeah, monkey had prostitution. As : who has the resources can use other people for their services. (
www.stevegillman.com/monkey-prostitution.html)
japie said...
Today we have the technology and resources to feed and provide for every living being on the planet and to increase it's carring capacity immeasurably at the same time as repairing most of the damage done to our life source but we are hampered because of our inability to shake off a primitive mind set.
To state that people are corrupt by nature is a fallacy. Corrupt behaviour is just that, behaviour, and all behaviour is learned.
again, it depends of what you refer to as "nature" because if you mean a period when there was no other choice, you have no real observation. if you give full resources to the elements of society and then see what they are willing to do, that is their nature.
(my 2 cents)
