WA
718 posts
There's a couple of forums here I could post this question in, but I'm not sure which would be the best one.
I'm hoping to get some advice on on what makes a board, whether it's a surfboard, SUP or kite-surfboard, 'loose' in the water.
I figure there would be some sort of similarities between all of them, but not being a user of any of them, yet, I don't have the experience to work it out myself.
What I'm trying to find out is, what makes a board pivotable and loose on the tail end.
Is it hull shape? Or fin set up? Or what sort of combination of both?
What would the characteristics of a board be if you wanted to make it nose swing quickly from side to side, pivoting on the tail end, whether moving of standing still?
Hope this makes sense, any advice would be really helpful.
Cheers :)
VIC
3829 posts
Tail shape
Bottom contours
fin placement
fin size and orietnation
Foot placement
rail shape
WA
12885 posts
I'll go with Roder, rocker is the main ingredient, the more rocker the looser it will be, but unfortunately also slower. I have a theory, that for purely wave riding, this isn't quite true, because the wave face is also curved.
Plan shape is also a factor, parallel rails and wide tails will stiffen a board up. The angle the rail makes to the fin, when the board is leaned into the water helps to turn the board. So a fairly pinny tail expanding smoothly into a widdish middle should turn well.
Bottom shape, a rolled bottom is easier to lean over, but has reduced planing efficiency, so slower.
Fin length, the longer the fin, the more effort is needed to lean the board over.
Fin position, further forward looser, further back stiffer.
And of course multi fins, the more "toe out" on the outside fins and the further forward the centre fin the looser it will be
Radial inertia, or "swing weight" the further the centre of gravity is from the fin and the heavier it is, the harder it will be to turn.
So there are a lot of variables, people have been playing with them seriously since George Greenough came on the scene with his loose fast knee board in the mid 60s. (he could literally run rings round the top surfers of the day)
Getting a mal to replicate that was impossible, that's the main reason surfboards started to shrink, now the modern multifin board is very close to the mark, may be even better.
The trick is to achieve looseness without sacrificing too much speed.
Plan shape, radial inertia and fin length/position are about the only ones that don't affect speed, but fin position affects control, and reducing radial inertia without just making the board shorter isn't that easy, and plan shape is basically about how much area you need where, a narrow tail is fine on bigger more hollow waves, but can bog down in smaller mushy stuff.
Multi fins make things a bit more complicated, and they're a bit after my time, although I've ridden them since the late 80s I haven't done a lot of experimenting with fin position and angle on different width boards.
EDIT>
Just reread your question, getting the nose to swing around on a board that isn't moving?
It's the movement of water over the bottom of the board that gives it it's manoeuvrability, more drag one side makes it turn in that direction, plus the tilted board then offers a curved surface to the water, plus if one toed in fin comes out of the water leaving the other toed in fin in, you have a big turning moment.
Without relative water flow, all you can do is twist your body slowly one way and fast the other, putting more weight on the back foot for the fast side. If you really need to do this, radial inertia becomes the biggest factor, rail shape may help if you want to stop the board turning back in the slow direction, fat square rails a bit forward of the water line and fine tapered rails in the water line, when the weight is back. But I'm only guessing here, you'll need to experiment.
QLD
3954 posts
Every variable has a positive and negative. It's all a combination of outline, rocker, bottom contours, fin size, fin position etc etc. it's a tug of war between looseness and speed. You can have something that pivots on the spot with no drive, you can have a board that flies but won't turn.
It's kind of complex and in the end the right answer is having a medium amount of all so that the board is fast and loose.
Nothing makes something loose than going fast afterall.
WA
71 posts
when alot of blokes/ or laidies use it
WA
1836 posts
LIKE TO ADD
Tail ........Thickness , width , rocker and V
Fin Rack and Flex ............More upright the more lift and drive more ,,,,,this is where it gets a bit confusing as a more up right side fin
can get you vert and be snappier more snappier but less inclined to hang in on slides. The more racked back the greater
the effort to drive vert .........combo of flex and rake vs v and rocker
............More flex more back foot slide off the bottom
Try overdoing it some day thats the flex and slide off the bottom ,,, to often people are way over finned and never increase the flex and release enough to find the sweet spot of slide grip and control
WA
7285 posts
Northbridge 1am Saturday morning ?
WA
7285 posts
Sorry, I just noticed the topic is back on board not broad.