Ok so before I go and pour all of my dollars down a legal money pit I thought I'd try out some free legal advice here.
So my situation is, bought an apartment with a girlfriend, she provided majority of deposit we both went on to the loan. Title on property was tenants in comman with a split of 38/62, in favour to her, no other agreements were made. After moving into the place 2 weeks later she decides that the relationship is over and dumps my arse. I move out. I've kept my repayments going as required. Both of us now want to take over the ownership of the property, so we're at a wall. I've sourced enough cash to purchase from her and with some changes can afford the repayments relatively easily. She has threatened to take everything to the courts to decide as she doesn't want to sell and is only offering me the bare minimum in return. Can anyone offer some advice on what I can do and should do? It seems a court can't force me to sell and will just be a money pit. Ideas?
I can't offer legal advice, but for psychological reasons that perhaps outweigh the sum of financial and legal reasons, I'd cut my losses and take the 6% profit.
+1 with Panda... no legal advice but to keep your sanity, get a valuation you can both agree on (independent) and let her give you the 38%. Then just walk away.....
Select to expand quoteKrusty said..
Ok so before I go and pour all of my dollars down a legal money pit I thought I'd try out some free legal advice here.
So my situation is, bought an apartment with a girlfriend, she provided majority of deposit we both went on to the loan. Title on property was tenants in comman with a split of 38/62, in favour to her, no other agreements were made. After moving into the place 2 weeks later she decides that the relationship is over and dumps my arse. I move out. I've kept my repayments going as required. Both of us now want to take over the ownership of the property, so we're at a wall. I've sourced enough cash to purchase from her and with some changes can afford the repayments relatively easily. She has threatened to take everything to the courts to decide as she doesn't want to sell and is only offering me the bare minimum in return. Can anyone offer some advice on what I can do and should do? It seems a court can't force me to sell and will just be a money pit. Ideas?
Panda's is correct. No man profits from relationship breakdowns ever.
We all assume you don't have kids? You are lucky.
Agree on a selling price, sell it quickly get your cut and disappear. That would be the best outcome.
Agree with the above also. Best to cut your losses, keep your life simple and and let it go. Say do you pursue things through lawyers or solicitors, youll chew up plenty of time, effort and and money. If she gets a bit more out of it than you, but you keep your sanity, it's worth just letting it go.
get proper legal advice advice on your options , yeah shes screwed ya ..the law expert will bend you over ... , but at least ya know where you stand ..the couple of k you spend MIGHT save you many K's.
Going through it all now with courts etc and it's f&@$ed. She is forcing me through it.
Cost about 45k so far and it's a year on. Thing is the chick just pleads dumb at every court appearance and stretches it all out and costs you more, and they get away with it.
Walk away with what you can and hope she drops dead from some horrid disease ASAP.
What do you want to do?
Do you want to sell or are you happy to keep your equity in the property?
You say you want to buy out her share, but that's not going to happen, so rule that out. It seems you can try to force the other party to buy your share, but not sell their share.
Are you happy keeping your percentage of the property and the costs, as well as the rent? If so, maybe formalise the details around the mortgage and keep going. I suspect that she is living in there rent free and not paying you for your share. As tenants in common, you should be getting your percentage of any rent, or if she is living there exclusively, then a proportionate share of the market rent. (Edit: It seems that this is not automatic, and requires one of the tenants to exclude the other from the property! Yikes.... you need to move in.)
"Even though co-owners separately hold specific shares, they are equally entitled to possess the entire property in common with each other, and at the same time. No one has exclusive possession to any part." - This means that you have as much right as her to live in the property, even though you have less share.
Let her know that you will be moving in and ask for a key. If she objects, then ask for an agreement on a proportion of the rent that she would need to pay you.
Either way, it would be a good idea to formalise the agreement.
Why do you see it as a money pit? If the value is going up, or the rent covers the payments, then that can't be a bad thing. The important thing to note is that she can't expect you to keep paying your share of the mortgage without you getting your share of the rent.
I think you do need some proper legal advice on this.
oh dear Krusty, you poor bugger.
Cut your losses and GTFO asap.
it wont get better I can promise you that from experience.
ET.
Ok so there seems to be a consensus on cutting my losses and running to the hills. Makes sense but idiots like me sometimes don't listen. The split was amicable, so I would like to try to go down the road of holding on to my share, if she decides against selling. It also seems like there's a good chance of her flipping again and maybe in a years time she could want to sell her share? Where I am at the moment repayments aren't causing an issue and there's a good chance the rental income will take care of a small chunk too. If it does turn down the legal path I think I will take the advice and run quick but if things can stay amicable then moving forward could be ok.
Now to go back in time to warn young players like myself.
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..
What do you want to do?
Do you want to sell or are you happy to keep your equity in the property?
You say you want to buy out her share, but that's not going to happen, so rule that out. It seems you can try to force the other party to buy your share, but not sell their share.
Are you happy keeping your percentage of the property and the costs, as well as the rent? If so, maybe formalise the details around the mortgage and keep going. I suspect that she is living in there rent free and not paying you for your share. As tenants in common, you should be getting your percentage of any rent, or if she is living there exclusively, then a proportionate share of the market rent. (Edit: It seems that this is not automatic, and requires one of the tenants to exclude the other from the property! Yikes.... you need to move in.)
"Even though co-owners separately hold specific shares, they are equally entitled to possess the entire property in common with each other, and at the same time. No one has exclusive possession to any part." - This means that you have as much right as her to live in the property, even though you have less share.
Let her know that you will be moving in and ask for a key. If she objects, then ask for an agreement on a proportion of the rent that she would need to pay you.
Either way, it would be a good idea to formalise the agreement.
Why do you see it as a money pit? If the value is going up, or the rent covers the payments, then that can't be a bad thing. The important thing to note is that she can't expect you to keep paying your share of the mortgage without you getting your share of the rent.
I think you do need some proper legal advice on this.
This sounds like some decent advise, I still have keys and access to the property and it's still my place of residence on my licence, I'm just physically not there. She isn't paying rent at the moment but I could be able to persuade her to do it. She may have screwed me but I don't think she actually wants to burry me either, but I will show caution.
It seems for me if I bail out I will loose a lot, but if things can remain business like then both of us could benefit. But yeah the mental factor of it is a big deal breaker too.
I advise you to lawyer up and take that bitch to the cleaners its not going to end happy anyway you do it.
Above may not be the best way to go but is the best advice I can offer for free.
If either one of you buy out the other you will be paying another stamp duty on that amount .
With that expense in mind I would let her buy you out .
Dont mention this to her just sell & let her cop the bill.
You can figure it out from the 1st stamp duty paid .
Strongly advise against the approach suggested by Marsbars. The only winners there are the lawyers.
Take a modest loss and walk away. I watched a friend and her ex-partner dump $280,000 on legals in a bitter battle to split the proceeds of a house worth about $850,000. Damn lawyers saw them coming a mile away and kept them at it for months. 
After an amicable meeting I thought we could move forward with a shared ownership. Today I received the threats of going to court to force me to sell because it's unfair.
There is no way you are going to walk from this bruise free.
SELL ASAP to stop you wasting money on repayments.
The courts are rigged towards women in any property dispute. Period.
You asked advice and it was given free to you here.
Its your personal decision to go get seriously or mildly burn, but one thing for sure you will get burnt one way or any other.
Select to expand quoteHarrow said..
Strongly advise against the approach suggested by Marsbars. The only winners there are the lawyers.
Take a modest loss and walk away. I watched a friend and her ex-partner dump $280,000 on legals in a bitter battle to split the proceeds of a house worth about $850,000. Damn lawyers saw them coming a mile away and kept them at it for months.
Yes, I think lawyers are in the interest of taking as long as it takes to come to an agreement. I suspect the agreement happens when either or both parties are almost out of money and the lawyers can't see a way to bill them anymore.
Best advice I have heard a lawyer give was for a windsurfing friend to give his ex-wife more than half so that she settles instead of arguing it out in an attempt to get a better split. I think it makes a lot of sense as that money would get eaten up in legal fees.
Select to expand quotenovetti said..
There is no way you are going to walk from this bruise free.
SELL ASAP to stop you wasting money on repayments.
The courts are rigged towards women in any property dispute. Period.
You asked advice and it was given free to you here.
Its your personal decision to go get seriously or mildly burn, but one thing for sure you will get burnt one way or any other.
Are you sure about this? I agree that its very different if there are kids involved. It is also very different if the wife was supported while the husband worked. But in this case it sounds like a relatively short relationship, where she was/is earning money and supporting herself. It "should" come down to a legal matter of who owns what, and it should be simple.
Select to expand quoteKrusty said..
After an amicable meeting I thought we could move forward with a shared ownership. Today I received the threats of going to court to force me to sell because it's unfair.
So, she just told you she is going to take you to court? But no actual legal proceedings, which is pretty doubtful.
Well, that'll be interesting in the least. She has no way to compel you to sell to her. What would she present to a court? That she entered into a 'tenants in common' agreement and now changed her mind? I don't think 'I changed my mind' is a good legal principle.
If it starts to stress you out, go see a lawyer. Everything you can find online suggests that she can't make you sell, and you can't make her sell. You both have the right to occupy the property at the same time. When you sell, you get the share of the money based on your tenants in common agreement.
Just out of interest, why does she think its unfair? You both got a loan with her AND you, and now that she has the place she wants it all?
My suggestion, and this is just a suggestion from a random person, wait for the legal proceedings are announced before doing anything. I don't know what argument she would use to try and force you to sell, but this arrangement is so common that I would be surprised if her argument has any merit.
Select to expand quoteHarrow said..
Strongly advise against the approach suggested by Marsbars. The only winners there are the lawyers.
Take a modest loss and walk away. I watched a friend and her ex-partner dump $280,000 on legals in a bitter battle to split the proceeds of a house worth about $850,000. Damn lawyers saw them coming a mile away and kept them at it for months.
Hey my advice was free but for $10K i can make his problem disappear
I think she's just using this all as a scare tactic, I'm certain she hasn't actually done anything more than talk to her support witches.
She believes because she put the larger amount of deposit in it's unfair that I should be able to hold onto my share of the property.
and yes no kids no marriage just a normal 3yr relationship.
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..novetti said..
The courts are rigged towards women in any property dispute. Period.
Are you sure about this?
Where do you live? In the Middle East?
In Australia family courts is happening everyday. Fact. Kids or no kids involved women are looked after by the penguins.
He will need a lawyer if the other party escalates but only until then an amicable agreement would be way more profitable for both.
If she has her own entourage of advisers (previously divorced women friends/colleagues) lawyers will be keen on the next trip to Monaco to sip Champagne...
Select to expand quoteKrusty said..
I think she's just using this all as a scare tactic, I'm certain she hasn't actually done anything more than talk to her support witches.
She believes because she put the larger amount of deposit in it's unfair that I should be able to hold onto my share of the property.
and yes no kids no marriage just a normal 3yr relationship.
If she put in the larger deposit, why did she agree to the 62/38 split?
Just out of curiosity, does she want to pay you approximately a third of what its currently worth, or does she want to pay you a lot less?
Select to expand quotenovetti said..FormulaNova said..novetti said..
The courts are rigged towards women in any property dispute. Period.
Are you sure about this?
Where do you live? In the Middle East?
In Australia family courts is happening everyday. Fact. Kids or no kids involved women are looked after by the penguins.
I think Family law looks at situations differently. If the traditional roles are reversed, they would look at providing support for the man if the woman was the main income earner.
They even look at the ability for each partner to work and their ability to re-enter the workforce. I think this seems a bit biased, but in reality they usually look at the woman who has given up paid work and would need to re-enter the workforce, having given up a large part of her career, it puts her at a disadvantage. They try and provide some compensation for that.
In the example suggested, it sounds like the woman is perfectly capable of servicing the mortgage and having saved the deposit, she appears to be supporting herself.
I don't think this is a common situation, so I would be surprised if anyone here has an example of that, where it went in the woman's favour.
Select to expand quotenovetti said..FormulaNova said..novetti said..
The courts are rigged towards women in any property dispute. Period.
Are you sure about this?
Where do you live? In the Middle East?
In Australia family courts is happening everyday. Fact. Kids or no kids involved women are looked after by the penguins.
He will need a lawyer if the other party escalates but only until then an amicable agreement would be way more profitable for both.
If she has her own entourage of advisers (previously divorced women friends/colleagues) lawyers will be keen on the next trip to Monaco to sip Champagne...
Yep and yet they want equal rights ...or whatever the fck that means. They want their cake and they want to eat it.
Don't rate em'. Sniffling little cows. anyhow....
What exactly does she want bro? Find out exactly what she wants, then try and negotiate from there. If you gotta take a little hit, better off doing that and walking away.
Lawyers will skin ya alive, then the courts will make sure she comes out on top. You will always lose, that's our lot brother.
Stick ya d1ck in, pay the price. End of story. Man up and sort it.
They are all victims until proven they aren't, and no one in this PC world wants to even go there.
1. Get a valuation
2. She pays you 38% of valuation (and deals with the stamp duty)
3. You go surfing
So as it stands I offered to allow her to continue living there, I'll continue to pay my share of mortgage, she would pay me 38% of an agreed rent, we would split the strata and other fees, I explained that all the mortgage fees and everything would be split between us, she wouldn't have to take out another loan and pay more fees. Her share would remain at 62% mine would be 38% as per legal contract. She replied that I'm a gold digger and that we can speak between solicitors. Talk about kicking the gift horse in the mouth. I wish someone would offer me a deal like mine.
Select to expand quotebene313 said..
1. Get a valuation
2. She pays you 38% of valuation (and deals with the stamp duty)
3. You go surfing
Yep this sounds like a wise idea.
