(laughing)
Logic?. More efficient, yes....safer if you kite close to a beach yes....

If you are out at sea...and everything goes really wrong, I'd like to have my big blow up toy to float me around until I'm rescued thanks.

No foils for me (unless of course I win lotto and can afford both types of kite)

Hey ian try a handle pass on you foil I will laugh at you from the beach ha ha

Gee some people have no idea!
Isn't is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt?
Ofcourse you can handlepass with a foil.
Jason King was the first guy in South Oz to handlepass using, wait for it, an Arc.
There are tons of vids on the net of guys handlepassing with Titans, Voodoos and now Physo2's.
Talking about safety, nothing relaunches like a flysurfer, and nothing hits the water less than an arc. Put a hole in a flysurfer or arc and they still fly. And how many people have been killed flying foils?
I prefer inflateables because of performance and the solid feel myself but to spout crap you obviously know nothing about is foolish and ignorant.
I do think the survey results are a bit out of whack. Closer to 10% would be flying foils I think.

Dalai you must obviously rip then?

I thought I heard a can of worms being opened.....

Shannon

--------------------------------
[email protected]

thats interesting bermaid cos when i used to kite at peli point and the wind came in reasonably strong all the foil boys had to have someone hold them (including you ian) down when they launch so they dont fly off into the trees.
and also the most people in trouble being dragged thru the trees and along the beach is the foils. hmmm.
i have never tried a foil myself so cannot comment but that bridle wood scare the begesus out of me.
it was bad enough when i had a 2-liner, a 4 is too much...
i guess when we talk about ease of use we all mean things differently.
to me it is easy to pump up a le and lay out 4 lines and if i wish to adjust i just adjust knots etc.
to others ease of use is rolling out a foil.
horses for courses.
but which is BEST?
i guess that is the question on everyones minds these days.....

My Friends,

You must realise that you can only have the skills I carry if you to let Buddha show you the way.

We have been kiting in India for many more years then people know. Yes and most of the time with know one but Buddhas spirit with me.

Please feel free to come to our wonderful place.

Then I will teach you the real skills of this very easy sport.

Dalai Lama

As soon as you have made a thought, laugh at it..

No thanks.


Shannon

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[email protected]

i dont see it as a waste of time.
it is fun bagging the funny looking people.
ride that magic sleeping bag boyz....

as a point of interest, ive been stuck in the middle of the river due to becalming for well over 2 hours with a G-Arc. Never in danger of sinking, drowning, the kite was 3/4 full of air still. Some water was starting to get inside but it certaintly doesnt pull you down. don't think the "safer" due to being a floating toy carries a lot of weight.

I actually was taught on both. A mate of mine was sold an inflatable at the same time as I got my foil. The Shop gave him one lesson with a non IKO instructor, he subsequently went down to the river by himself and had absolutely no idea. Eventually he sold off his new LEI taking a $1000 loss and has been put off kiting. Good that he did not persist with the LEI as he had a hx of tennis elbow!!

As I keep on saying it is a personal thing and what may be right for one is not necessarily right for all.

Oh and yes you are right I was taught by Ian as well as another instructor, the reason that I went to him was that I had allready decided to get a flysurfer and was impressed by his character, I do not know other instructors who are happy to help rescue people on the river, who they don't know from a bar of soap. He does a great job and is one of the tru Pioneer's of the sport in WA.

Well I started off as an independant (a swinging voter). I had a couple of lessons on the LEI, tried a Flysurfer, then back to the LEI. They both scared me ;-) In the end, I went against the instructors advice and bought a little Flysurfer Manic. Fantasic! I got my skills up so quickly. When I was ready for more power I considered LEI's again but bought another Flysurfer (9.3 Warrier). What a beast! @>#& It makes my little maniac feel like a toy, but its still useful on strong days and has still whipped my ass if I'm not careful. I love the Flysurfer. I've never had a lesson from Ian Young, but I'm glad he's championed the sport and given us an alternative technology to consider with the Flysurfers.

I would like to try LEI's again because I want to get out into the ocean, and I know I'll be swimming home. Perhaps early next season I'll become an independant again, and swing my vote.

Graeme

Sorry guys - I just couldn't help myself - and still can't :-)

Thought it might open a can of worms!

I agree that 22% of all kites out there are not ram-air foils.

It still amazes me the things that people are prepared to bag out without ANY experience in the area that they criticise, worse still perpetuate the false negative rumours.

You can do handle passes and ride unhooked with FlySurfer kites.

You CAN launch FS kites at the edge of the wind window just like a LEI.

I only get people to hold me down when launching at Peli Pt because there are trees either side of where I drop my kite.

Bridle lines might be a perceived problem to some but in reality they are a non-issue.

When starting out in this sport I had nonbody to turn to and had to teach myself not by any choice of my own. I have had to swim almost every type of kite back in from the ocean at various times for various reasons. IMO no one type of kite is any easier to self-rescue or pack up on the water than any other. People keep painting this picture of making some sort of raft out of a LEI and floating out there until someone rescues you or paddling in on it - if this is your plan then please don't take up kite surfing - WAKSA has already had a number of complaints from the WA Water Police about kite surfers having to be rescued :-( The quickest way of getting back to the beach if you can't relaunch your kite IMO is to pack it up and swim it in - this is arguably easier with a foil as it packs up much smaller. OTOH there is less chance of not being able to relaunch a FS in the first place (even if the wind drops) compared to a LEI.

I'm the first to tell people that you should make your own mind up about gear choice as is all about your own personal style of riding and what you like the feel of etc - foils are not for everyone but please don't spread rumours about something you know little about.

Just trying to educate those that have never actually flown FS kites but keep on bagging them :-)



Cheers,
Ian Young
www.flysurf.com.au
0414 716 812

Yes you can self rescue with a FlySurfer foil - very similar to the technique used with LEI except you hold the pulleys where the bridle lines join the main flying lines. Simply fly the kite on the bridles to one side and drag yourself to the beach - because the pulleys are closer together than the wing tips on a LEI and the FS is MUCH easier to water relaunch, I'd argue that it's actually easier than a LEI! More than happy to demo - if you're interested come and see me at Peli Pt before or after lessons any time.

I'm the first to admit that foils like the Wallend Air, PL Waterfoil and even the Concept Air did not do the reputation of foils any good but my point is that FlySurfer kites are VERY different and have MANY excellent features - especially performance, ease of use and safety! All I ask is don't bag out something that you haven't tried.


Cheers,
Ian Young
www.flysurf.com.au
0414 716 812

Early kites were all dogs compared to modern kites. The Wipika Classic wasnt much of a kite either compared to modern inflatables. And they were the same vintage as the Peter Lyn Waterfoil, the Wallends and the Concept Airs. Every kite back then took more skill then kites today. If we had a Naish x4 4 years ago, noone woul dhave been on anything else.