Aksa - And the new fees are .......

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chadster
chadster
QLD
136 posts
QLD, 136 posts
31 Jul 2011 8:42pm
JUst looked at updating my AKSA - and its now $125 to register WTF -
Last year it was $65 How the heck can something go up 100% in one year.

I then check their website -
NO update of the July11 agm or Profit and Loss -

But I checked the profit and loss for 2010 and they took in 45,000
which divided by $65 annual fees per person meant that only about 692 people were actually members -

So with 125 per person this year .... if you dont go to comps how may of you will rejoin ?????

They are saying that 65 of your membership fees goes to insurance and 30 goes to state assoc and 30 to national assoc

comments please - Iknow that there is an aksa section but if I pay my money I think we are owed an explantion of the jump in fees -








Big eeeZeee
Big eeeZeee
NSW
1100 posts
NSW, 1100 posts
31 Jul 2011 9:40pm
seems like you've already read the explanation concerning the rise in fees... what more do you want?

$125 still seems reasonable to me...
spreader
spreader
37 posts
37 posts
31 Jul 2011 9:10pm
Been a member since 2007, listen to the vibe on the beaches, watch the forum's, have to say this season I WILL be without aksa
woodys
woodys
WA
218 posts
WA, 218 posts
31 Jul 2011 9:17pm
When the insurance premium rises from $15k to over $100k in one year a 100% increase in individual memberships is easily accounted for.
Those who where lucky enough (or sensible enough) to join before the end of the year were subsidised by AKSA reserve funds and the combined pro-rata effort of every state association which makes up AKSA.

Perhaps we will hear soon - either here or on the state & AKSA websites - what the outcome was of all state reps investigating options for this coming season.
Everyone should also be aware that your state & AKSA membership is now calendar year based. A full 12mths of cover from the day you sign up.
AND even at the increased rate its way cheaper than many other sports pay for the level of cover we get.

GO AKSA
spreader
spreader
37 posts
37 posts
31 Jul 2011 10:35pm
is this a retailers post! ex pressie post! comittee post!
all of the above!!!!!!!!!!
i totally agree that this is cheaper than many sports but..................
bottom line, word on the beach is that people are losing the faith,
not my words, just passing on the vibe.

woodys
woodys
WA
218 posts
WA, 218 posts
31 Jul 2011 10:54pm
spreader said...

is this a retailers post! ex pressie post! comittee post!
all of the above!!!!!!!!!!



All of the above - I guess, if you want to look at it that way.
After all we are all just the product of our experiences.
But mainly its from a committed kiter who loves the sport & the people in it; and; who wants the kiting to continue as free as it is today & the people in it to avoid any grief.

BUT one thing that shouldnt be read into it is that it is anything official from anyone with any inside info at any AKSA or WAKSA level. Purely a personal - uninvolved comment. As all my comments are and will be now that Im not allowed on c'tees.
(NB: Ive already had my paw smacked twice for saying stuff that could be taken the wrong way. Forever more just an individual - like we all are)
spreader
spreader
37 posts
37 posts
31 Jul 2011 11:09pm
woodys said...

spreader said...

is this a retailers post! ex pressie post! comittee post!
all of the above!!!!!!!!!!



All of the above - I guess, if you want to look at it that way.
After all we are all just the product of our experiences.
But mainly its from a committed kiter who loves the sport & the people in it; and; who wants the kiting to continue as free as it is today & the people in it to avoid any grief.

BUT one thing that shouldnt be read into it is that it is anything official from anyone with any inside info at any AKSA or WAKSA level. Purely a personal - uninvolved comment. As all my comments are and will be now that Im not allowed on c'tees.
(NB: Ive already had my paw smacked twice for saying stuff that could be taken the wrong way. Forever more just an individual - like we all are)


luv ya work
less passion,more reality, not so many smacked paws
Bigwavedave
Bigwavedave
QLD
2057 posts
QLD, 2057 posts
1 Aug 2011 10:16am
Same old whinge every year.

Try participating in any other sport where you are covered if you injure a bystander or another participant.

Soccer 400+
rugby 300+
dirt bike 400 +

If you want insurance and someone to protect your access to local beaches, join.
If you don't, don't bother. But don't complain when things go pear shaped and you need them.
Tony Armstrong
Tony Armstrong
NSW
341 posts
NSW, 341 posts
1 Aug 2011 10:56am
Yeah, I agree BigwaveD.

IS CHEAP insurance.

Our hang gliding membership is over $300 more if you want to fly and several locations where Councils require $ 20 m public liability.

More peeps join, the cheaper it becomes, and visa versa.
SugarQube
SugarQube
WA
490 posts
WA, 490 posts
1 Aug 2011 10:39am
Its just been very cheep for quite a long time, $65 was only enough as long as no claims were made,
I remember some guys actually questioned the insurance value due to the fact that no claims had been made????, well there you have it, moved into perspective.
Hope the WAKSA /AKSA committee gets all the support it needs to continue the fantastic job its done in the last year.
loverboy
loverboy
WA
614 posts
WA, 614 posts
1 Aug 2011 10:50am
Hey guys- it's actually good to see this discussion out there....good that people are taking an interest in it and looking at what they are getting for their money, I see it as good value but can also see the other side of the coin in that it has almost doubled in one year which is substantial.

Maybe those who are a little negative on the beach could share their ideas ? The only way an association can represent its members is if they give it feedback- constructive criticism and genuine ideas are the only way forward !

Just for the record with some councils the only reason we are allowed to use the beaches it is because of a relationship between the association and the council...the membership and the liability insurance are a big factor in keeping them onside.
Ozoned
Ozoned
NSW
58 posts
NSW, 58 posts
1 Aug 2011 2:24pm
NSWKBA used to have a free shirt with the membership but since it went through AKSA from last year it doesn't inlude that now.
Maybe a free shirt might soften the blow for some???
jas73
jas73
QLD
796 posts
QLD, 796 posts
1 Aug 2011 2:51pm
Have you not noticed that ALL insurances wether it be house or car or sport has gone up. It's still reasonably priced and i don't see a problem with paying the extra. Don't bother with the policy and if you take out a Jo public or cause damage while kiting then don't bother posting on here complaining that your being sued for damages.
KIT33R
KIT33R
NSW
1716 posts
NSW, 1716 posts
1 Aug 2011 3:17pm
Ozoned said...

NSWKBA used to have a free shirt with the membership but since it went through AKSA from last year it doesn't inlude that now.
Maybe a free shirt might soften the blow for some???


NSWKBA has always been a part of AKSA. The new insurance premiums came into effect before the start of the membership year meaning that AKSA had to cover the shortfall from existing funds.

Due to an unusual number of claims against the public liability insurance in recent years premiums went through the roof. That's why your membership is up.

Keep safety a high priority on the water if you want to keep premiums down.



loverboy
loverboy
WA
614 posts
WA, 614 posts
1 Aug 2011 1:27pm
I think Ozoned was referring to the fact that the membership is now sent direct from AKSA....I like the t shirt idea- when I first joined there was a free tshirt from AKSA- maybe something to look at ?- I still wear mine, it's good promotion for the national body and it shows who cares....
chadster
chadster
QLD
136 posts
QLD, 136 posts
1 Aug 2011 8:19pm
the last thing i need is another stupid tshirt
If they can afford a tshirt - then take off 25$ and make it $99
Flying Kiwi
Flying Kiwi
WA
258 posts
WA, 258 posts
1 Aug 2011 6:38pm
AGM documents are up on AKSA website now under documents section, I was waiting for comments from the attendees before I finalised them.

Let me know if you have any comments [email protected]

Cheers
Gavin
AKSA Public Officer
samoht
samoht
QLD
111 posts
QLD, 111 posts
1 Aug 2011 10:48pm
This is why I would never do any sort of public office. Too many bloody wingers on the sidelines complaining that they no longer get something for nothing,
Like BigWaveDave said, same old whinge.

I asume that those in office are doing the best they can for very little thanks, because if they don't do it nobody else will. (Poisoned Challis).

I think any interested person will note that after a year of disasters that all insurances will be on the rise along with a lot of other things.

As a final note, it's on offer, not compulsory, if you don't want it, you are free to run the risk of loosing everything you have worked for for the last 20 years. You choose.

$125.00 to stop me being reduced to nothing sounds pretty cheap to me.
spreader
spreader
37 posts
37 posts
1 Aug 2011 9:05pm
samoht said...
Too many bloody wingers on the sidelines complaining that they no longer get something for nothing,
Like BigWaveDave said, same old whinge.





talk about jumping on a band wagon, i fail to see any whingeing
perhaps people should'nt make light of t-shirts
towradgi
towradgi
NSW
432 posts
NSW, 432 posts
2 Aug 2011 4:01pm
The choice is yours to join.If the 2 main reasons for joining AKSA is 1insurance -OH LOSE ALL YOUR ASSETS,and 2 KEEP ACCESS to your beach by involving them[is AKSA A SUPERHERO] if you took that out of the hardsell what have AKSA left to recruit other than passion for the sport.There is alot of bluff involved,creating fear for peace of mind. 1 Some different scenarios, the degree of liability by both parties of an accident relates to the compo. payout as well as suffering,loss of income etc. the victim may be at fault to a degree,if its a council beach and lacks signage or isn,t patrolled properly .the council is included,ALOT.If your uninsured it will go through the court system and take 3 years, represent yourself and appeal another 2 years .Does the offender sue his instructor for bad advice,if equipment failure,does he sue the manufacturer. 2 I honestly fail to see how AKSA can save beach access if it IT CANT BE DONE INHOUSE BY LOCALS.If kiting is a public nuisance and public danger anywhere its banned. On SYDNEY HARBOUR, JETSKIS were banned 5 YEARS ago.NO GOVERNING body saved it .Total ban.If you need signatures for a petition TO SAVE ACCESS go to a malL and get anyone to sign.
dbabicwa
dbabicwa
WA
809 posts
WA, 809 posts
3 Aug 2011 2:04pm
chadster said...


They are saying that 65 of your membership fees goes to insurance and 30 goes to state assoc and 30 to national assoc


Yep, 2 years ago hail storm in Perth smashed everything. My premium didn't go up by 100%...

The AKSA insurance policy is poor, poor, poor...It is just general Public liability (who is underwriter? Allianz, Lloyd, who?, On how much - all unanswered)!

If referring hang gliding (or any other), this has much better wording:

www.windsurfing.org/insurance.htm

I want an option to support AKSA/WAKSA and pay for insurance elsewhere! How's that?
iti
iti
QLD
417 posts
iti iti
QLD, 417 posts
3 Aug 2011 4:23pm
thanks to people like choicey this is why it has gone up
TurtleHunter
TurtleHunter
WA
1675 posts
WA, 1675 posts
3 Aug 2011 3:20pm
dbabicwa said...

chadster said...


They are saying that 65 of your membership fees goes to insurance and 30 goes to state assoc and 30 to national assoc


Yep, 2 years ago hail storm in Perth smashed everything. My premium didn't go up by 100%...

The AKSA insurance policy is poor, poor, poor...It is just general Public liability (who is underwriter? Allianz, Lloyd, who?, On how much - all unanswered)!

If referring hang gliding (or any other), this has much better wording:

http://www.windsurforganizeding.org/insurance.htm

I want an option to support AKSA/WAKSA and pay for insurance elsewhere! How's that?

That windsurfing cover is only for organized events and wouldn't cover you down the beach kiting on your own. In saying that why is it that most sports have cover for events only. Considering how much time you spend kiting in organized events your probably much more likely to hurt someone else while out on your own.
dbabicwa
dbabicwa
WA
809 posts
WA, 809 posts
3 Aug 2011 3:31pm

Considering how much time you spend kiting in organized events your probably much more likely to hurt someone else while out on your own.



Sure. I'm not spending any time on the events...I still want to support sport assoc.

It's up to you to decide how much you should pay for insurance, your/my own choice, adding a few bucks on my Health\personal policy for the 3rd party insurance is nothing, I think...


Hence $60 for supporting assoc is not bad at all.
dusta
dusta
WA
2940 posts
WA, 2940 posts
3 Aug 2011 3:49pm
dbabicwa said...


Considering how much time you spend kiting in organized events your probably much more likely to hurt someone else while out on your own.



Sure. I'm not spending any time on the events...I still want to support sport assoc.

It's up to you to decide how much you should pay for insurance, your/my own choice, adding a few bucks on my Health\personal policy for the 3rd party insurance is nothing, I think...


Hence $60 for supporting assoc is not bad at all.


i would be happy to pay aksa $60-$100 a year for simply membership if that gave me say right to kite somewhere and it was actually policed .

I have taken out my own personal income and third party cover seperately .


and like you said my premiums didn't go up after the fence claim i put in last year . Or the Stolen property from a break in last year . Or the other fence claim i just had done and i have just renewed my policy .
Paul1
Paul1
QLD
1011 posts
QLD, 1011 posts
3 Aug 2011 6:30pm
Has anyone ever tried to claim on this insurance? Seems like someone, somewhere is completely taking the p1ss.....How many beaches were saved by AKSA last year, any not in WA, if any at all....????
laurie
laurie
NSW
3902 posts
NSW, 3902 posts
3 Aug 2011 7:48pm
Paul1 said...

Has anyone ever tried to claim on this insurance? Seems like someone, somewhere is completely taking the p1ss.....


From what I heard at the WAKSA AGM, the premiums have gone up because a payout of around $125,000 was made by the insurance company last year (and the $125k doesn't include all the legal expense incurred by them) which I'm guessing consumes pretty much all the premiums that have been paid by us kiters.

This was the first major claim, so now there's a precedent, the insurance company has increased the premium on the expectation that this kind of figure will be repeated within a year or two.

My maths would suggest that if they don't increase their premium, then they stand to lose many thousands of dollars for offering kiters insurance.

I'm guessing that each 'industry segment' of an insurance company probably needs to stand on its own two legs .. i.e. bicycle premiums cover bike payouts, car premiums cover cars ... maybe all premiums go into a big payout fund?

Who knows .. I don't.

I do know that lots of people pay $800 insure a $30,000 car.

$125 to cover a payout of up to 5 million seems pretty good value, not even including all the additional stuff the association volunteers do on our behalf.
puppetonastring
puppetonastring
WA
3619 posts
WA, 3619 posts
3 Aug 2011 5:58pm
Paul1 said...
Seems like someone, somewhere is completely taking the p1ss.....How many beaches were saved by AKSA last year, any not in WA, if any at all....????


AKSA doesnt save beaches. AKSA is a collective National body for Kitesurfing which is controlled & run by a representative board of 1 rep from each state.
AKSA is a very necessary linking of the chain which greatly enhances any state KSA in its effort to save beaches etc.
It adds a lot of weight to negotiations when you can quote that as the state body there to fight the fight you are a part of a national organisation.
BUT in saying AKSA doesnt save beaches the fact that there is a constant state rep link nationwide it opens the door to shared info on what works, what doesnt and acts an a general information exchange bw the state c'tees.

The state KSA's (all of them) use the national body for those functions best suited to centralised action eg negotiating the best insurance deal possible using combined numbers of all Oz kiters to add weight to negotiations.
AKSA is also a means by which state KSA volunteers are not left with all the hack work of recording memberships, checking payments then issuing tags & welcome packs.
One centralised on-line enrolment system for all. AND
One pay-as-you-use contractor for all. A very efficient & effective way of taking this onorous task off the volunteers & giving it to someone committed to prompt action which is equal in all states etc etc.

And the critics should remember we have only been around a little over 10 years. The state KSA's and AKSA are all in the very 'early days' stage of evolution towards a time when they can present as fully mature organisations. Organisations like those that have a history and set of precedents & SOP's as sophisticated as those you experience in other longer-standing organisations.
It wont happen overnight - but it will happen. And thank who-ever for the fact we have this evolution happening while we can all take advantage of what it already offers.

Amen
dbabicwa
dbabicwa
WA
809 posts
WA, 809 posts
3 Aug 2011 6:05pm
laurie said...

I do know that lots of people pay $800 insure a $30,000 car.



Yes, but this is not the 3rd party insurance?!

That is why they have underwriting insurance, probably Lloyd or Allianz. Basically they get the money back from the Lloyd.

This info can be clearly seen on the windsurfing insurance and much more... 5 million is not much, we talking 10, 15 or even 20 this days.
kyteryder
kyteryder
NSW
692 posts
NSW, 692 posts
3 Aug 2011 8:29pm
To keep fees down, why couldnt there be an excess per claim, payable by the member, whom the claim is against. Is this possible with this type of policy.


Without have further details on the payouts made so far, maybe people would be a little reluctant, to offer liability to the third party, by saying to the injured or damaged party.

" yeah sorry mate, dont worry about it i have insurance, you can claim against my insurer."

And admit full liability in the process. If each member new they had to pay an excess per claim, then maybe they maybe a little more self guarded, at the time of the incident, and hopefully keep claim costs lower.

My thoughts anyway in keeping premiums lower.


KR
puppetonastring
puppetonastring
WA
3619 posts
WA, 3619 posts
3 Aug 2011 7:02pm
Nice come back Laurie

Im out of the picture now but I think the new policy is $10M personal $20M for official events ? May even be a straight $20M ???
Pretty much guarantee you its not $5M but even a $5M claim would have a pretty significant impact on your average kiter !!!
But hey if you can afford to risk it then dont join. Just X ur fingers that enough do to enable the various KSA crews around the country to do everything else they do - like save your beaches etc.
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