Ask Pete Cabrinha whatever you want!!

> 10 years ago
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getfunky
getfunky
WA
4485 posts
WA, 4485 posts
27 Jul 2007 5:30pm
Ummm...

How come your kites are made in the same Chinese etc factories, with essentially the same materials but cost 50% more than soooo many other brands? Brands that even absolute nongs don't diss anymore, ie Best etc etc etc

Ummm...

Why do blue flamers get that name?

Ummm...

Why can't I grow up and be an adult?

stamp
stamp
QLD
2800 posts
QLD, 2800 posts
27 Jul 2007 10:54pm
hey getfunky; i think you should fire that question at neil pryde, the owner of the cabrinha brand and the one who contracts the factories in china
user
user
WA
1140 posts
WA, 1140 posts
28 Jul 2007 6:20am
Neil Pryde was actually the first sail manufacturere to set up in China.
Started in Hong Kong.
GreenPat
GreenPat
QLD
4107 posts
QLD, 4107 posts
28 Jul 2007 2:22pm
quote:
Originally posted by dazza5172

...And don't ask me where the sun came from?
God put it there,
then don't ask me where God came from and so on.



This sounds like a good line of questions for Pete. Pete, how did the universe begin? What happened before the beginning of time? If there was no time could there even be a 'before'? Do you believe in god?
INfiniDIE
INfiniDIE
WA
478 posts
WA, 478 posts
28 Jul 2007 12:48pm
How long does it take an average freight train of 100 cars, travelling 100 km/h, pulling approximately 8,000 tonnes of freight, to STOP after initiating an emergency brake application?


i just thought u might know since everyone else is flaming on about God and Jesus and the like
jquigley
jquigley
WA
205 posts
WA, 205 posts
28 Jul 2007 1:15pm
quote:
Originally posted by INfiniDIE

How long does it take an average freight train of 100 cars, travelling 100 km/h, pulling approximately 8,000 tonnes of freight, to STOP after initiating an emergency brake application?


i just thought u might know since everyone else is flaming on about God and Jesus and the like



Depends on the co-efficient of friction, wet rails, dry rails, etc.


I also have a question Pete:

If vegetables are so good for us, how come no one eats Brussel sprouts for breakfast? Or any vegetables for that matter, bar a tomato or a few mushrooms with the bacon and eggs.

J-P
GreenPat
GreenPat
QLD
4107 posts
QLD, 4107 posts
28 Jul 2007 3:28pm
Don't forget the weight of the train, is it an average loaded freight train, or an average empty freight train? Those big iron ore haulers in the north west can't stop within their range of vision. If something is on the tracks and they hit the brakes as soon as they see it it's already too late...
NSW, 4382 posts
28 Jul 2007 4:10pm
Oh you must fly some other brand, or have a reason to say that?
And anyway its BS
From my website, recommended retails

Cabrinha 2008 12M CB3 complete $2099
Best Yarga 13M 2007 $1998.
Naish Helix 12M $2149 ( all sizes prices will be up tomorrow)
Ozone Instinct Sport 11M $2099
Flexifoil 12.5 Ion2 $2159
Slingy 11M T2 $1899
North Rhino 07 12M $2099
Virtually everything else on the maket in Oz is within 10-15% of the lowest or highest price of kites in the list above.
If there are lower priced kites, there is a good reason, they are lacking quality, in some way. Keep it real.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve



quote:
Originally posted by getfunky

Ummm...

How come your kites are made in the same Chinese etc factories, with essentially the same materials but cost 50% more than soooo many other brands? Brands that even absolute nongs don't diss anymore, ie Best etc etc etc

Ummm...

Why do blue flamers get that name?

Ummm...

Why can't I grow up and be an adult?



getfunky
getfunky
WA
4485 posts
WA, 4485 posts
30 Jul 2007 12:15pm
Hiya Steve,

I should clarify that it is an observation that I should direct to most of the bigger companies. Sorry to single out Cabrinha they are not alone.

No I'm not a Best pimp. I bought both of mine 2nd hand (and am still stoked with em). I just can't get over how much hype (and marketing $$$) go into the gear each new season. Yes the gear is getting better but not nearly as much as the blurbs suggest... I bought my kites because they are excellent (in both handling and build) and bloody good value.

For my hard earns 2k is still way too high for kite, (rowwrrr ffft ffft). I fail to understand how everything else coming out of Chinese factories continues to get cheaper month after month, yet 4 years after I 1st went white in a kite shop - at the price of a single kite ($2100) - there is still bugger all drop in price for 'name' brands.

Sure, there is no doubt a fair bit of R&D (and heaps of advertising at all levels), however in most industries there is a natural evolution to better product and less expensive units... I just don't see it in kiting and think that is nort right laddy.



poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
30 Jul 2007 12:23pm
When you smack your toe on a solid object do you writhe around in pain on the floor like a girl, or are you made of stronger stuff?
meerkat
meerkat
WA
644 posts
WA, 644 posts
30 Jul 2007 12:37pm
quote:
Originally posted by Kitepower Australia
If there are lower priced kites, there is a good reason, they are lacking quality, in some way


Steve, i presume you are generalising a little? There are kite manufacturers who are new to the Australian market that offer introductory prices below that 10% threshold and the quality is outstanding.
NSW, 4382 posts
30 Jul 2007 3:37pm
G'day Getfunky

Yeah obviously Cabrinha are not alone, as you can see from that list I posted. They are actually in the same price boat with Best these days. How unsurprising!!!

You have said it yourself, you went into a kite shop 4 years or so ago, and a 12M kite was $2100, and 4 years later its either $2100 or a couple of hundred $$ less.
Yet the price of oil, from which all kite cloth and plastics are derived, has risen several hundred percent in that same time frame.
Real wages in those Chinese factories have risen by several hundred percent too. They may still sound low by our standards, but the cost of living is relative, and much lower in those countries where our kites are made too. Everything to do with the manufacture of kites has risen in cost, yet prices at retail have remained static, that should tell you that you are actually on a good thing.
Competition is tough out there in kitedom, and the schitt is starting to hit the fan for many smaller brands.
Yet the real retail prices of kites have not gone up.

Sure there are newer, less well known brands offering product for a little less Meerkat, but you will always find some are where quality is less on these kites, has to be.
The days of buying market share, by selling cheaply and directly on beaches or elsewhere in the passion to creat a brand and an income for the owners are rapidly dwindling away
Plus these newstart brands are not supported by the established retailers, so service and spares are less readily available, and resale is low, as Getfunky has pointed out.

I was talking to a professional business manager yesterday, who worked in China 5 years ago, he said technical staff with training got around $4K USD per year then, which was a fortune more than an average factory worker, ans the equivalent of around 100K plus today. He said those same people are now earning 20K USD, the equivalent of around $200-$250K in todays dollars. There is a lot of new wealth happening in China, it might still be lagging behind developed western countries like ours, but it is rapidly catching up.

Most of the really cheap manufacturing is happening in much less developed countries, with much lower labour rates than China. China is becoming a skilled and therefore more highly paid workforce, and more prosperous economy. There are lots of Chinese millionaires maiking their fortunes there now.

Each year this industry evolves, the major players are actually all working for less percentage return on each dollar invested, and that includes every part of the industry.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve




quote:
Originally posted by getfunky

Hiya Steve,

I should clarify that it is an observation that I should direct to most of the bigger companies. Sorry to single out Cabrinha they are not alone.

No I'm not a Best pimp. I bought both of mine 2nd hand (and am still stoked with em). I just can't get over how much hype (and marketing $$$) go into the gear each new season. Yes the gear is getting better but not nearly as much as the blurbs suggest... I bought my kites because they are excellent (in both handling and build) and bloody good value.

For my hard earns 2k is still way too high for kite, (rowwrrr ffft ffft). I fail to understand how everything else coming out of Chinese factories continues to get cheaper month after month, yet 4 years after I 1st went white in a kite shop - at the price of a single kite ($2100) - there is still bugger all drop in price for 'name' brands.

Sure, there is no doubt a fair bit of R&D (and heaps of advertising at all levels), however in most industries there is a natural evolution to better product and less expensive units... I just don't see it in kiting and think that is nort right laddy.





congo abrezio
congo abrezio
NT
285 posts
NT, 285 posts
30 Jul 2007 4:07pm
''They are actually in the same price boat with Best these days. How unsurprising!!!''

''Cabrinha 2008 12M CB3 complete $2099
Best Yarga 13M 2007 $1998. <---------------------------------------???
Naish Helix 12M $2149 ( all sizes prices will be up tomorrow)
Ozone Instinct Sport 11M $2099
Flexifoil 12.5 Ion2 $2159
Slingy 11M T2 $1899
North Rhino 07 12M $2099''


how come you put the price for a 13m yarga instead of a 11m yarga?? because u put 11m prices on both the slingy and the ozone??
getfunky
getfunky
WA
4485 posts
WA, 4485 posts
30 Jul 2007 2:42pm
quote:
Originally by KP:
Yeah obviously Cabrinha are not alone, as you can see from that list I posted. They are actually in the same price boat with Best these days. How unsurprising!!!

You have said it yourself, you went into a kite shop 4 years or so ago, and a 12M kite was $2100, and 4 years later its either $2100 or a couple of hundred $$ less.
Yet the price of oil, from which all kite cloth and plastics are derived, has risen several hundred percent in that same time frame.
Real wages in those Chinese factories have risen by several hundred percent too. They may still sound low by our standards, but the cost of living is relative, and much lower in those countries where our kites are made too. Everything to do with the manufacture of kites has risen in cost, yet prices at retail have remained static, that should tell you that you are actually on a good thing.
Competition is tough out there in kitedom, and the schitt is starting to hit the fan for many smaller brands.
Yet the real retail prices of kites have not gone up.

Sure there are newer, less well known brands offering product for a little less Meerkat, but you will always find some are where quality is less on these kites, has to be.
The days of buying market share, by selling cheaply and directly on beaches or elsewhere in the passion to creat a brand and an income for the owners are rapidly dwindling away
Plus these newstart brands are not supported by the established retailers, so service and spares are less readily available, and resale is low, as Getfunky has pointed out.

I was talking to a professional business manager yesterday, who worked in China 5 years ago, he said technical staff with training got around $4K USD per year then, which was a fortune more than an average factory worker, ans the equivalent of around 100K plus today. He said those same people are now earning 20K USD, the equivalent of around $200-$250K in todays dollars. There is a lot of new wealth happening in China, it might still be lagging behind developed western countries like ours, but it is rapidly catching up.

Most of the really cheap manufacturing is happening in much less developed countries, with much lower labour rates than China. China is becoming a skilled and therefore more highly paid workforce, and more prosperous economy. There are lots of Chinese millionaires maiking their fortunes there now.

Each year this industry evolves, the major players are actually all working for less percentage return on each dollar invested, and that includes every part of the industry.




There are valid points you make about the rise in /petroleum/affluence/wages in China.

Kite companies aren't in a bubble of their own, so how do you explain every other industry thriving and surving in the same environment and still managing cheaper prices? Particularly when freight and other factors for low weight gear like kites can't be overly exxy...

I can't agree on your pricing comparison there. From my searching I find about $400+ differance between your examples... Believe me I'm not trying to flog the brand you have quoted but there is 30% differance between them and other brands. (My mistake it's more like 30% not 50% - but significant all the same)

I agree this brand have gone up a little but still are cheaper generally. A few years ago, when they were cheaper, 'brand' riders bagged them no end until they found too many happy owners and too few faults, then realised they were making gooses of themselves.

Anyway I (and probably a few punters) have wondered at the lack of price drop for some time.


quote:
Originally by PR:
When you smack your toe on a solid object do you writhe around in pain on the floor like a girl, or are you made of stronger stuff?


I dunno - next time I do it will be relevant and I will check... I'm not aware of any masculinaty issues but I will check with my mum, she will be sure to know.

When you smack your head on a solid object do you writhe around in pain on the floor like a girl, or do you jump online and take the piss outta someone on seabreeze?
meerkat
meerkat
WA
644 posts
WA, 644 posts
30 Jul 2007 3:04pm
quote:
Originally posted by Kitepower Australia
Sure there are newer, less well known brands offering product for a little less Meerkat, but you will always find some are where quality is less on these kites, has to be.



Steve, i am specifically meaning less well known brands in OZ that don't have a market share, but are doing really elsewhere, eg. europe. In their first year(when they are promoting themselves in OZ) they sell their products at a reduced rate. The next year their prices are at a level with the other manufacturers(or heading that way).

Hype and R&D by a man****aturer needs to be paid for somehow and while i feel the cost kites is high, the amount of enjoyment i continally achieve would equate to a car/boat/other toy of a much higher(and unobtainable) amount.
jquigley
jquigley
WA
205 posts
WA, 205 posts
30 Jul 2007 3:07pm
I've asked myself the same question as GetFunky is asking: "why the bejesus are kites the same price today as they were 4 years ago, when every other hi-tech manufactured product I can think of has dropped?" And apologies to Kitepower and kite retailers in general but "how come I can't buy an outrageously cheap kite direct from the manufacturer via the internet?"

I don't know how big the kite market is worldwide, maybe not big enough to produce the economies of scale that are needed to make things super cheap like my laptop which I paid $2500 for 4 years ago and can now buy the equivalent only bigger/better/faster/smaller for $1100 online.

As for the argument about oil prices being to blame: The amount of plastic in a kite - by weight - is not a lot, couple of kilos maybe. The technology and process of producing the materials might be expensive but the amount of raw material (oil) used is bugger all so the price of oil theory does'nt really stack up if you ask me.
As for the labour market in China: wages have risen by 13.5% per annum since 2002 but the average annual wage for a skilled factory worker in Nov 2005 was still only $2300. http://www.mercerhr.com/summary.jhtml?idContent=1201340

Anyone know just how big the kite market is?

There seem to be a lot of brands of kite. Are there too many brands competing for not a big enough pie? Pete?



J-P


poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
30 Jul 2007 3:31pm
quote:
I dunno - next time I do it will be relevant and I will check... I'm not aware of any masculinaty issues but I will check with my mum, she will be sure to know.


The question was directed at Pete Cabrinha, not you as everyone can guess that you are a girls blouse.
getfunky
getfunky
WA
4485 posts
WA, 4485 posts
30 Jul 2007 5:40pm
Glad I'm not the only one bored (and tight-wadded) enough to ponder the belly fluff of kite economies...

I still reckon a 'this years' kite should be around $1300-1500 tops, at a conservative comparison to the rate of pricing on other 'consumables' (ie computers/tents/teevs/crazy clarks sh1te generally have a 3 season lifespan) before being rendered a back-line heavy low aspect 4 line number...

Makes you fink?



quote:
Originally by PR:
The question was directed at Pete Cabrinha, not you as everyone can guess that you are a girls blouse.



Ha ha... fair bump play on...




timing is ....


everything



Has Pete got "foot issues'?


NSW, 4382 posts
31 Jul 2007 10:35am
EDITED for Congo Abrezio

From my website, recommended retails

Cabrinha 2008 12M CB3 complete $2099
Best Yarga 13M 2007 $1998.
Naish Helix 12M $2149 ( all sizes prices will be up tomorrow)
Ozone Instinct Sport 13M $2229
Flexifoil 12.5 Ion2 $2159
Slingy 14MT2 $1999
North Rhino 07 12M $2099
Virtually everything else on the maket in Oz is within 10-15% of the lowest or highest price of kites in the list above.
If there are lower priced kites, there is a good reason, they are lacking quality, in some way, generally. Keep it real.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve



quote:
Originally posted by congo abrezio

''They are actually in the same price boat with Best these days. How unsurprising!!!''

''Cabrinha 2008 12M CB3 complete $2099
Best Yarga 13M 2007 $1998. <---------------------------------------???
Naish Helix 12M $2149 ( all sizes prices will be up tomorrow)
Ozone Instinct Sport 11M $2099
Flexifoil 12.5 Ion2 $2159
Slingy 11M T2 $1899
North Rhino 07 12M $2099''


how come you put the price for a 13m yarga instead of a 11m yarga?? because u put 11m prices on both the slingy and the ozone??

congo abrezio
congo abrezio
NT
285 posts
NT, 285 posts
31 Jul 2007 5:19pm
thanks
Uncle Rico
Uncle Rico
NSW
200 posts
NSW, 200 posts
31 Jul 2007 10:04pm
Can I have 1,000,000 US dollars please?

I you agree to give it to me, I promise to move to New Cal where I will kite all day, live in a tent and cook with a fire.

Thanks
poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
31 Jul 2007 8:11pm
Do you colour your hair or is that natural?
kitebetty
kitebetty
WA
6 posts
WA, 6 posts
31 Jul 2007 9:29pm
So why aren't we seeing benefits of currency appreciation (AUD vs USD) Why is it you can get hold of 2008 cabrinhas for 1350USD? Definately not here of or in the USA [}:)]
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