Best Kite 4 Upwind Performance

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Flying High
Flying High
NSW
217 posts
NSW, 217 posts
2 Nov 2008 3:57pm
Which kite (2008/2009) has good upwind performance and general all round for surf.
I realise there are many variables and nothing beats technique but...
TOAD
TOAD
NSW
305 posts
NSW, 305 posts
2 Nov 2008 5:13pm
Slingshot REV 08
kusu
kusu
QLD
485 posts
QLD, 485 posts
2 Nov 2008 4:45pm
Disclaimer - Best rep/retailer here.

Key to good up wind when you look past rider skill and technique (which is 80% of it) is an efficient low drag kite that sits forward in the window but holds power.
The Nemesis HP has the advatage of rock solid cuben fibre leading edge with a very small diameter. Coupled with twister tech for great turning when wave riding and all round performance and you have the perfect kite for your requirements Flying High. I haven't found any kite I've ever flown or owned that cuts upwind better than the last 3 seasons cuben kites.

Hope this helps.
Rhys McClintock
Rhys McClintock
NSW
995 posts
NSW, 995 posts
2 Nov 2008 7:34pm
The Ozone Edge II is in the same league as the Nemi too, both are wicked kites for upwind...
You wanna be looking for a high aspect kite with super thin leading edge and struts...
kusu
kusu
QLD
485 posts
QLD, 485 posts
2 Nov 2008 6:42pm
The ozone is good upwind as well - but poor for waves as it doesn't back up nicely or pivot turn like the nemi. Think the other models are better for waves.
Good kite for the average joe who wants to get some nice jumps in as it is a no brainer for jumping and float at the expense of little bar feedback, sweep turns and uneven pull and power through loops and power moves.
Horses for courses.

How's life working for the devil of the industry Rhys![}:)] Hope it's all worth it for you....
Rhys McClintock
Rhys McClintock
NSW
995 posts
NSW, 995 posts
2 Nov 2008 8:16pm
True... Try the Light for Waves, but its not the best upwind...

Life's good ;) Wat you mean the devil of the industry?
kusu
kusu
QLD
485 posts
QLD, 485 posts
2 Nov 2008 7:23pm
Maybe I should have said Mcdevil
Rhys McClintock
Rhys McClintock
NSW
995 posts
NSW, 995 posts
2 Nov 2008 8:33pm
You know you love him
burley
burley
VIC
132 posts
VIC, 132 posts
2 Nov 2008 8:34pm
2008 North Rhino without a doubt.
ADEN
ADEN
QLD
299 posts
QLD, 299 posts
2 Nov 2008 9:34pm
TOAD said...

Slingshot REV 08


Mr float
Mr float
NSW
3452 posts
NSW, 3452 posts
2 Nov 2008 11:20pm
Peter lynn F arc .has AUTO ZENITH Too
Flying High
Flying High
NSW
217 posts
NSW, 217 posts
2 Nov 2008 11:53pm
Thanks, will have to test ride the Nemisis and Rev.
I dont have too much problem upwind in flat water but struggle in surf especially if I'm not powered up, current/rip close to the beach tends to be downwind.
I also tend to have problems with the kite sitting back in the window. I know about the trim setting (must have short arms) but even using depower strap I struggle to have bar sheeted out when leaning back.
jonojonojono
jonojonojono
79 posts
79 posts
2 Nov 2008 11:35pm
pocket kite using your legs.
gruezi
gruezi
WA
3464 posts
WA, 3464 posts
3 Nov 2008 12:05am
Your grey matter.
Mr float
Mr float
NSW
3452 posts
NSW, 3452 posts
3 Nov 2008 10:11am
Flying High said...

Thanks, will have to test ride the Nemisis and Rev.
I dont have too much problem upwind in flat water but struggle in surf especially if I'm not powered up, current/rip close to the beach tends to be downwind.
I also tend to have problems with the kite sitting back in the window. I know about the trim setting (must have short arms) but even using depower strap I struggle to have bar sheeted out when leaning back.


What do you weigh and what size board are you on?
the truth
the truth
QLD
189 posts
QLD, 189 posts
3 Nov 2008 10:10am
By observation the ss t2/3 seem impressive in upwind ability amonst others but you might just need better board to fix your problem.

The skill to go to windward is making your kite and board work for ya and thats timing and finesse with both wind, waves and kite.

I have boards that I love for downwinders but if I want to stay where I am choose appropriately.

Lately been enjoying c kites and find them entertaining me more and with the finesse you can have just as good upwind- I had thought the bows and hybrids had better upwind, maybe it is easier upwind.

luv
istt
Flying High
Flying High
NSW
217 posts
NSW, 217 posts
3 Nov 2008 12:09pm
"What do you weigh and what size board are you on?"


I weigh 83 Kg and am using either a 132 underground or 140 Naish haze both are about 06 models.
NSW, 4382 posts
3 Nov 2008 12:11pm
the truth said...

By observation the ss t2/3 seem impressive in upwind ability amonst others but you might just need better board to fix your problem.

The skill to go to windward is making your kite and board work for ya and thats timing and finesse with both wind, waves and kite.

I have boards that I love for downwinders but if I want to stay where I am choose appropriately.

Lately been enjoying c kites and find them entertaining me more and with the finesse you can have just as good upwind- I had thought the bows and hybrids had better upwind, maybe it is easier upwind.

luv
istt


Too true ISTT
Watched Dave S from Slingy rip upwind from me yesterday on an 11M T3 and Glide, I was was on an Ozone Instict LightII 14M and an Airush switch 1.44, wind was approx 10-12 knots with a little bit of tide assist at that time.
There were also 16' skiffs racing in the river at the time, Dave was pointing as high into the wind as them.
Then I adjusted the trim on the Light and I was the only one staying upwind consistently and at one point I was following a skiff and actually catching them.
Other far less experienced riders were also easily able to ride way upwind on the T3's yesterday, it was so obvious that this model had "something" extra in upwind performance.

Back to back, side by side testing as happens on demo days like yesterday are a real eye opener. Claims are one thing, reality is another.

Its not all about super thin leading edges, as the T3's performace proves. It actually has virtually zero to do with the materials the leading edge is made from, fact!
Really nothing to do with hyperpimped techno babble features either
Perhaps these were put into HP and Pro kites to compensate for the super stiff and twist/stretch resistant material the LE is made from?
The material is quite heavy and I think the dacron leading edge Waroo has a better balance for surf conditions without the extra cost.

The Ozone InstinctII kites all go upwind well its a feature of their design, has been since the very first models.
The SportII and LightII are the best models for wave riding, with more pivotal turning and in the LightII, unmatched drift and stability. For purely wave riding I don't think there is a better kite out there, but I freely admit I am biased.

Other good upwind kites that are good in waves are the Rev1 and 2, the Waroo 08 and 09, SB IDS, Rebel, Airush FlowST, really most of the bigger brands have a model in their range that suits waves and has good pivotal turning and driftback stability.

Being able to sheet out a bit and ride your board flatter, standing over the board more, keeping the speed up, going out through the break a bit cross downwind and faster, then cutting upwind once out the back all help with "upwind" in the surf.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCinsideyourheadkusu

vishy
vishy
WA
451 posts
WA, 451 posts
3 Nov 2008 10:25am
What is so good about pivotal turning in the surf???

In regards to going upwind you will find the kite that flies the fastest from one side of the window to the other will also fly upwind very well with the correct technique. But for everyday riding a kite that provides consistent power coupled with a good board and the right technique will get upwind the quickest.

You can use any kite in the surf, although some are preferable over others. Anything smaller than a 10m, that is reasonably quick, that will never backstall, and provides smooth power delivery will work fine, most other factors can be compensated by adjusting your riding style,

Enjoi
Matt
PS Demo!
PPS Just re-read the posts and Kusu nailed it with:
kusu said...

Key to good up wind when you look past rider skill and technique (which is 80% of it) is an efficient low drag kite that sits forward in the window but holds power.
stamp
stamp
QLD
2800 posts
QLD, 2800 posts
3 Nov 2008 11:38am
vishy said...

What is so good about pivotal turning in the surf???





pivotal turning is an advantage because the kite doesn't creep too high when you turn it constantly, it pivots and stays low in the window.

manicskier
manicskier
VIC
772 posts
VIC, 772 posts
3 Nov 2008 6:00pm
no one mentioned the flysurfers, the best totally bagged flying mattress around, tryed on of these things last year (a speed II and a something else) really quite impressive and point into the wind.... oh yeah
NSW, 4382 posts
3 Nov 2008 8:10pm
manicskier said...

no one mentioned the flysurfers, the best totally bagged flying mattress around, tryed on of these things last year (a speed II and a something else) really quite impressive and point into the wind.... oh yeah


Yes they do point high, the other kite that was almost matching the LightII 14M was a 10M Psycho4 on an Underground Freewave 5'8"
The Speed2 demo I have is amazing at upwind performance, but lacks the turning needed for proper wave riding, but i think the Psycho4 would be fine in waves.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve



Mr float
Mr float
NSW
3452 posts
NSW, 3452 posts
4 Nov 2008 10:16am
Flying High said...

"What do you weigh and what size board are you on?"


I weigh 83 Kg and am using either a 132 underground or 140 Naish haze both are about 06 models.


wot kite r u on?

My hunch is that you might want to get a fatter flatter board for the light stuff .say 140 x 42/44
pulse69
pulse69
QLD
39 posts
QLD, 39 posts
4 Nov 2008 11:19am
I tried a 9m T3 on sunday as well. I'm a newb but it was heaps easier to go upwind than on my 13m Waroo with the same board size.
cwamit
cwamit
WA
1194 posts
WA, 1194 posts
4 Nov 2008 7:15pm
Flying High said...

Which kite (2008/2009) has good upwind performance and general all round for surf.
I realise there are many variables and nothing beats technique but...



i have one word for wave riding in onshore slop: downwinders
Flying High
Flying High
NSW
217 posts
NSW, 217 posts
5 Nov 2008 1:17pm
Mr Float
I have a 07 Ozone Sport 13m.
I am pretty happy with it generally, can get upwind no problems on flat water with the underground 132.
I hear what you are saying with the board length and maybe I should consider a longer flatter board for the surf.
I am considering upgrading the kite for a new model hence the question and may hold off until the new Ozones are released and compare that to a RevII and Best Nemi.
RayQ
RayQ
WA
638 posts
WA, 638 posts
5 Nov 2008 6:26pm
Some kites may do one or the other thing better, but for allround performance, up wind, in waves and just the kite that delivers most fun, 9m REV 08 / 09,
Long twin tips in waves are just a pain to turn, I ride 128cm and am 90kgs
Jacques
Jacques
NSW
159 posts
NSW, 159 posts
6 Nov 2008 12:28am
I haven't tried that many different kites, however, I find that the Flysurfer Speed2 and Psycho4 are doing a very good job going upwind.

My view is that the Speed2 in large sizes (19 and 15m) are amongst the best light wind kites on the market today, which is probably due to the fact they are very "efficient" with a high projected area and high aspect ratio: definetly performance oriented for racing, speed, and massive hangtime for old school. As Steve said, these are not recomanded for waves, especially due to a tendency to overfly a little (they fly very far towards the edge of the window... which is obviously what you want for going upwind, but not for waves).

In regards to the Psycho4, if you are open to something quite new, I suggest you take it for a demo... you might be pleasantly surprised? I just love it (the 10m).

upwind-ability wise... to my humble opinion, the board is at least as important as the kite.

cheers
Jacques
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