A very important question has been raised by another poster in the AKSA part of the forum which I feel needs to be discussed here.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=43232

Basically upon reading the insurance policy which we are covered by it would appear that :

( Please correct me if I am wrong as this is just my interpretation )

1) no individual is actually covered buy insurance ( if you hurt a member of the public you can be sued and you have no cover )

2) the insurace covers a select number of shires and councils ( by my understanding they are covered against being sued by the public if you hurt someone )
Furthermore it would appear that these councils are only covered during the running of an event.

3) If I have an incident in my local areas there is no cover as none of my local councils are listed in the policy. ( and it is not during a comp anyway )


I now have a better understanding as to the purpose of the insurance in keeping access to the beaches open to kiters, as we have a central body to discuss issues and precedents with difficult councils when issues arise etc....

For this reason I am happy to pay for the insurance as it will benefit kiteboarding nationally and the more councils involved will mean better beach access. So it has a very important place.

I originally joined AKSA for the insurance cover, I was originally told that we were covered for public liability and I would be stupid to kite without it ( I was not told this by AKSA but rather several retailers and instructors here in Victoria. So I am not critisizing AKSA at all )

So my question is : Am I personally covered public liability wise or not ?
Could someone please confirm of deny this ?

AS I said I believe the AKSA insurance is important and has a place and I am not belittleing it at all.

I would just like to know if I should be seeking my own public liablity insurance as well !

Hi all,

these are very important questions - the insurance policy and what it covers needs to be spelt out clearly and concisely. We are in the process of doing this, please understand that it can not happen overnight. There appears to be some confusion and we wish to clarify this. We want to make sure that we are giving the right information to our members and those who are looking at joining.

Regards

Geoff Gent
AKSA Board Member

I've never thought that we were covered in any meaningful way. It's my understanding that you can't contract out of negligence. That is, if you do something that you can reasonably expect to cause someone harm, then you can't 'contract' (read insure) yourself out of that. How many dumb kite accidents do you read about that could be considered 'acts of God'. It's yet another reason why I didn't join this year - I'm prone to the odd act of Clod.

But thank you airrush Geoff from AKSA who is clarifying the policy and took time to write such good posts. It is appreciated.

Scenario:

All is good with conditions and kiter's setup/safety/awareness and rider behavior. However, when about to land/launch there are Joe Publics casually strolling the beach when a luff/freaky wind hole etc results in loss of control of the kite (no crazy @rsed trick or boost involved) and the kite drops like a lead weight - before depower/bail out is possible - kite powers up and Joe n co. get julienned by the lines!!

Is it:

Negligent - no cover?

Bad Luck - no cover anyway?

Act of God - no cover?

Deemed a 'best practice' (I freakin hate that term but that is the shizen that get used) situation, all boxes ticked and a payout awarded?

True you cant contract out of negligence (which means that when someone asks you to sign a waiver it wont protect them if they are negligent). You can be insured for it though.

This is an ongoing issue - all these policies are very difficult to understand even if you are trained. The ones I looked at a while ago (I eventually joined IKO for worldwide coverage), appear to insure the organisation - being the AKSA, IKO or whatever. The members then get the benefit of that coverage. I couldnt find anything to confirm that the organisation would then be bound to step in on the member's behalf in the event of an incident. The organisations are not very good at explaining the policies because I dont think they understand them very well either. The IKO policy requires you to sign their waiver first which prevents you suing someone else if they cause you damage - which I guess reduces their risk the more people take up the insurance, because no-one can sue anyone else.

WAKSA, SAKSA, KBV, TKSA, SEQKA all are affiliated with AKSA.

If you are a member of any of these organisations then the AKSA insurance policy has been paid on your behalf.

GC- you are correct that as a member of WAKSA you have been insured.

A copy of the policy is on its way to each of the state associations so it can be shown to councils and the like as proof our policy is up to date.

Hi All

There is no doubt that $65 for a years insurance is decent value if it is actually covering you. My question is - has anyone out there either insured or uninsured had a claim made against them?

Interested to know
Huey

Great work Geoff, Looks like things are starting to get on track..... appreciate your prompt reply but I dont envy you having to decipher the policy in order to explain it to the the rest of us muppets....


JUst one thing you mention that as members of our state associations the insurance policy has been paid on our behalf and that as members we are insured I know I am jumping the gun and I should be more patient as you said it would be explained soon ... but when you say

airush geoff said...

.

If you are a member of any of these organisations then the AKSA insurance policy has been paid on your behalf.

GC- you are correct that as a member of WAKSA you have been insured.

Do you mean we are all covered or just our councils etc.....

Cheers Geoff,

I can understand that !

I will look forward to further and better particulars in the near future.

Haha! Thanks for sweating Geoff! Looking forward to the update.

There is no such thing as "insurance," or is there?

I though the same as you Jacques are we covered or not.Been paying it for three years thinking we are covered somebody should know.So what are we covered against?

If the AKSA membership contains an insurance policy, then under the law, isn't a clear set of terms and conditions supposed to be provided? (either in hard copy or as an internet link)

This is what happens in the UK it's a Financial Services Authority legal requirement. I would say that the Australian insurance industry is at LEAST as regulated as in the UK. I know that AKSA doesn't actually provide the insurance, it is underwritten by an insurance company.

But- here is a link to the BKSA website's insurance policy:

http://www.bksa.org.uk/

Sorry, that will just take you to the homepage but if you click on the "Join the BKSA" link on the left hand side and then "insurance policy" you will see how clearly the policy has to be worded. Under the BKSA insurance, I am covered

(a) practising/participating in power kiting, kite buggying, land kite boarding, kite skiing, kite surfing and snow kite boarding
(b) taking part in events organised by the insured
(c) taking part in any social activity organised by the insured

I also get up to ?10000 personal accident cover, except when I'm in a competition.

The T&Cs are easy to understand. On one hand the AKSA insurance says you have 3rd party cover all over the world, and on the other it seems to limit it to the Shires and Councils listed in the policy. Tres confusant!

I reckon the best thing to do is contact the insurer directly, since membership implies policy holder status. Ask for written clarification on the confusing points, and then post those points up on the forum. If someone needs to claim and the claim is denied, but the letter states otherwise, then at least you can drag it up.

Like with any Insurance Policy you have to read the PDS (Product Disclosure Statement) very carefully. You are not always covered for the things you think you are, but you are still better off being Insured than not being Insured. As I work in the Insurance Industry, I talk to people everyday who are caught out by this as they don't read things carefully.

Insurance Policies are "chopped and changed" every year, so when you do get your renewal in the post always read the policy carefully as there are usually changes.

From what I understand, for the "greater good" of the sport, you are better off being covered through AKSA, as their records will show the Councils and other opposing members of the public, that as a community, Kitesurfers in general are responsible people.

And what a Bargain

some people in this country buy firearms for sporting purposes.

and they probably don't take out insurance in case they "accidently" shoot someone.

just be careful with your kites people.

dirty harry said "a man's gotta know his limitations"