RoberNaish,

If you liked the Pivot then a Lithium with fly closer to this than the Cat.

But the big thing here I think is that both the Cat and Lithium have changed very little in 2013, 2014, 2015.

If price is a big thing for you (it is for many including me) then start hunting the buy and sell for ex demo, hardly used 2013/2014 kites.

RobertNaish said..

daggy said..
Without getting bogged down in details, but most kites are around $1800 - $2000. Not sure how you are paying $2500 for kites ESPECIALLY if your shop is "looking after you "

I demoed 10 kites last season, my surprising favorite was Ocean Rodeo (!) and they cost me $1650 and $1850

ps Ozones are built extremely well!

Hi Daggy
The retail price of either a North or Naish Kite over here ( anywhere up the East Coast ) in a 12 meter size is $2499.00 while an Ozone is $2100.00 and the Airush is $2000.00
The problem i have with the Naish is that the hype surrounding it seems to mean that the shops can charge the full retail or offer $100.00 off or maybe 10% if you can get it .
Seems a bit wrong as the kite has already been out for nearly 6 months .
I would happily pay a fair price and understand that the shops need to make their money. I also guess that the aussie dollar is affecting margin etc,.
I need to Demo Airush and Ozone and have heard good things about Turning and Boosting with Lithium but only hear that Ozone has excellent build quality. Can anyone comment on its low end and turning etc.
I know , i know demo demo but sometimes horses mouth help too.
Thanks for the replies.....

Ozone kites are ok - it's lighter than others I've fondled on the beach hence flies/drifts when others don't but not as tough I'd say. Dump valve thread wears - but they give you a spare. Apparently there is new material in the 2015's.. time will tell. Ozone bar is pretty average, just into second season on latest set and the grip is coming off, lines looking worn, especially power lines and the de-power cord and then there is the stupid little magnet thing..

Try gastra
I was smiling with the price
Especially when I was getting more air than my slingshot

Im not a bad kiter but I drop my kites in the surf heaps,often having to release

I figure ,if your not dropping your kites your not having a proper dig

I fact in I have ripped 4 kites in half with only the leading edge holding them together in 4 years

3 of them in the surf and 1 in flat water

I watched Andy Yates last summer slam his kite in the water a few times in less than an hour

But he was trying some triple backroll flilpy thing

Watching some of the really good riders with Aaron Hadlow the other day in very light wind

Their kites were in the water heaps,sometimes they slammed into the water but mostly just landed fairly softly

My next kite will be a Switch or a Griffin kite I think,can get them for a good price $700 - 850[ kite only] depending on the size ,usual delivery time 4-6 days and use my old

bar,both are high quility build in my opinion and perform well

Going on MY average I will drop it my kite in the surf and rip it in half in the next 12 months,hopefully this stat will improve

If I bought a Naish Pivot which Im well impressed with and dropped in the surf on a big day in front of a big whitewash and had to release it and watch it get blown thought the surf

across the beach and into the trees,I think I would be devoed ,worst still if I dropped it in front of a big whitewash and could not release in time and had it ripped in half

If I dropped one of the cheaper kites in the surf,well not so bad

I have worked with 4 kite factories in china and have been designing kites for 8+ years, inflatable kites cost about $400 USD to make at a factory, the larger brands should be paying less for bulk. The designers experience is important to how a kite flys but the marketing is more important to get people to spend the cash on there brand.

What you are paying for is:

Shipping, import duty and GST on kites can be +$300 per kite
Designer needs to make $ to feed there family and live: +40 to $150 per kite
A brand may Buy Team riders ( up to $100,000 per year per rider) and/or Forum Spammers
A brand may have a marketing division advertising and magazine adds ( $500,000 per year )
A brand may have Investors who want 30% return on investment
Shops need to make $400 to $ 1000 on top of all the above costs per kite to have a life and a family + cover rent, wages, insurance, stock, old stock they have to discount at less than cost and deserve local support.
Convert USD into AUD ( add 20% to the USD cost )
Wages and Materials are going up about 8% per year for kites

Just because a Kite costs $2600 or $1200 does not 100% guarantee the quality, design experience, materials or performance is better. Not 100% but still a high %. There are plenty of crappy cheap kites and some good ones, and most of the expensive kites are fantastic but a few may not be as good as a cheaper kite.

I say the above because in the last 2 months I have seen at my local beach 3 people with brand new $2500 kites deflate on first inflation because of a hole in the bladder, kites where not replaced but repaired, I know some one who purchased a $2600 kite and bar for a kite camp trip in North Queensland for a weeks holiday on arrival the kite had a massive hole in the bladder and would not inflate, no replacement, only repair. I know 4 people who purchased an online brand and 3 returned the kites one sold his on ebay.

I understand and respect why a kite costs $2500 to $3000 if you take into all the costs above, the cost is valid. To be a big brand you need to pay the $$$ for riders marketing promotion etc etc, but it would be hard for many people to get a 2 or 3 kite quiver.

I hear sellers say "resale value is crap on a cheaper kite" do the maths, a 2500 kite after 2 years is worth $500-800 or $100 if ripped or damaged, you loose $1800,
a $1200 kite is worth $300 to $600, you lose 600.

Just my 2 cents worth, bring on the fake rage.....

Solution solved. .. one word. "Cabrinha". all the other kites are made from the off cuts of scrap that falls on the floor at Cabrinha HQ. why settle on second best.

two of the guys i ride with have 2014 cab bars that look like dogs have chewed it - they are not happy

Plummet said..

In the lighter winds the waves are smaller and boosting is more fun than wave riding piddlers. As the wind builds the waves get bigger and lower aspect kites start to jump ok. So I slowly step down in jumping ability and step up in wave riding ability as with my kite as it gets windier.

Maybe true for your area, but current wind on beach normally does not dictate swell size. If light winds, small waves were true, paddle surfers would never catch a decent wave. I agree with building your quiver to suit your style, and it will be different for everyone. The vast majority of kiters just want good value, and don't give a rats about brands. I think the main thing is to find your brand, model, and size that fits your style. I remember a shaper talking about surfboards describing it as your 'magic slipper'. Like music, it may not be someone else's taste. When you do find that kite, you will know. It's the one you have no hesitation, your sure it's the right size to put up, and want to grab. You should also have total confidence in the brand and equipment, against failure and faults. One failure wave riding, can cost you your whole kit! Build your quiver around that kite. For that main kite, I have no hesitation in spending $ on it.

I think pearls comments are pretty close to how I see it as well. Before too long search for the kite that "clicks" with you and normally that involves a certain size as well and cost... a factor, becomes only that, a factor to consider among all others. Then build your quiver around that.

Whether that's a so called leading brand or not.

So at this stage, to simply answer the question of the post...

YES

Plummet said..

But as a general rule of thumb. Light winds typically = small swell, high wind particularly sustained high wind over a period of days = big swell.

I understand what you are trying to say but for anyone who hasn't grown up on the ocean and/or understands swell/storm behaviour, this is terribly misleading.

^ Plummet what you're saying isn't true for all coastlines. Take Indonesia for example, the swell they receive is generated far south, with no frontal activity anywhere near Indo coastlines.

Dear Plummet,
For the sake of the children please don't comment on anything involving waves.
Thanks in advance for your cooperation.