Hi myusernam and many others,

Thanks for your post. It sems that this topic has generated a lot of interest even though it has gone off topic many times. It is an emotional topic which effects us all in some form or another. Many have posted some good points and ideas, others have, as usual, not been helpful at all [rolls eyes].

When I wrote the original post it was at the end of a long hot day just 48 hours after the police were scouring the beaches for another lost kiter. Only a week previous we had the Mullaloo guys up with signs about the issues faced at their local with signs and such.

Being on the beach 8 hours a day every day of the week for more than 2 months without a day off tends to tire one out. Add to this that I seem to be the person people come to when they want to complain about kitesurfers. Fishermen, life guards, boat owners all stop in to have a whinge. Add to this the fact that I am a prominent person on this forum and am often a figure attacked (and sometimes supported albeit usually by PM) for my thoughts and opinions, it all adds up and sometimes gets to a breaking point.

The night I wrote the initial post was the culmination of many negetive things and mostly lack of rest which led to a rather emotional post. For this I am sorry, for the message I am not. I still stand by the things I wrote with the exception of cutting lines. Frustration and being overworked and cooked by too much heat was just a bit too much, so for that I apologise.

We are definately facing some major problems in the near future in our sport and I believe that we need to act now rather than try and repeal bans or regulation imposed upon us once they are already in place.

It is inevitable that we will at some point need to be licensed, hopefully by ourselves, same as the hang gliders and PADI. But licenses are required for everything from driving a car, paragliding, flying, firearms, SCUBA diving, skydiving, driving a boat and even diving for crays. It's not hard to see the future. Whether we like it or not, we need it. I just reckon it is better if we do something about it proactively so when the time comes, and it will come, we are shown to be aware of our impact on others and are seen to be intelligent and mature enough as a group to be taken seriously and left to self regulate on our terms, not those of others.

I would love to lead the charge and help organise something but between a business that demands almost every waking moment of my attention and a family that fights for all of whats left, I have no ability other than to try and stir up emotion through the forum and through WAKSA/AKSA to try and motivate others who do have the time and the passion to try and make a difference.

Back at the start of the sport I put my time in as AKSA Pres when I did have the time, and would again if I had the time, but that is impossible at this time in my life.

Anyone that knows me knows I have tremendous passion for the sport and always will, and will work in whatever capacity I can to help out.

To all the nay sayers and people who contribute nothing positive, I will refuse to debate with you as it's obvious that you can never win an argument with fools.

To all the people who contact me privately and publicly with support and for all those who support my sometimes emotional rantings quietly sitting on the sidelines, thank you.

I am doing stuff non publicly to help the sport and will always work in the best interests of the sport for everyone. And yes, I will continue to front people doing the wrong thing or acting unsafely at least at our beach, albeit without a hook knife drawn

Good winds,

humility - congratulation kitehard :) must have been hard to lower your head a bit.

As per licensing - let dont reinvent the wheel here. There is already IKO and its cards which work just fine everywhere else in the world (unless IKO is not a recognised as a valid organisation).
AKSA and WAKSA shouldnt involve itslef in licensing people!

"u wanna kite here - show me your IKO card or proove your skills." - same system works perfectly fine in most major spots around europe and other countires. Small spots govern themselves. and it should be like that everywhere. As much as I hate IKO as an oganisation they did a lot of good to our sport - let's use it.

waveslave said...

Kitehard said...

We are definately facing some major problems in the near future in our sport and I believe that we need to act now rather than try and repeal bans or regulation imposed upon us once they are already in place.

All this scare-talk from Mr Paranoid. ^^^ lol.
BANS,,, BANS,,, BANS,,,
Who in their right mind would ban this ? vvvv

is that a dude?

Of topic I know but windsurfing had this ace bird called jena de rosenay that used to wavesail in her g banga. many a cover of freesail or sailboard extra had a closeup or her magnificent backside as she came down from a backloop. should be more of that stuff in kiting i reckon. where are you spruce? forget framing and perspective. what about the spadge????

myusernam said...

is that a dude?

Of topic I know but windsurfing had this ace bird called jena de rosenay that used to wavesail in her g banga. many a cover of freesail or sailboard extra had a closeup or her magnificent backside as she came down from a backloop. should be more of that stuff in kiting i reckon. where are you spruce? forget framing and perspective. what about the spadge????

ha ha. I used to have pics of Jenna up on my wall in the '80's. She was awesome.

[Edit] She is awesome

How da fark are they gonna ban kite surfA

daPole said...


"u wanna kite here - show me your IKO card or proove your skills." - same system works perfectly fine in most major spots around europe and other countires. Small spots govern themselves. and it should be like that everywhere. As much as I hate IKO as an oganisation they did a lot of good to our sport - let's use it.

DaPole, you are missing the point: it is not the skill what's missing in most cases....it is the respect and understanding...no matter how many spins you end up doing before you crash on someone who happened to have a swim after work....

[

I assume you mean "...comparable to kiting at night at a remote onshore shallow beach lagoon with no boat traffic".

My point however, was abundantly clear. Its not enough that this idiot was 1.6km offshore - it was also at night.

Kiting 1.6 km offshore at night is stupid plus.

totally agree. Actually, kiting 1.6 klm offshore is pretty stupid during the day also if you ask me - without a support boat or anything. Long way home if something happens as he found out. I don't know if I would have made it.

cant be that much better a spot than in close surely?

you and i both benny boy!

Andrash ….read the beginning of the post you will get my point. There are two problem here…kooks (that includes undereducated/unaware kiters) and lack of respect from "regular" kiters, tourists etc towards the sport, spectators and your kiting mates.

“Kook” problem can be solved by a “skill check”…the other problem is cultural and depends on the individual person/group hence it cannot be solved well not any time soon (unless we all work on it hehe).

Are some of you people for real?

There are people such as WAKSA and local user groups dedicating their time to try and educate people as to the situation we face and to put local guidelines in place in order to preserve kiting at current favorite spots so as to avoid enforced regulatory action.

The problem that we face with getting kiters to be considerate, self regulatory etc is way beyond the challenge I though it would be - if people have the sort of pathetic lame ass attitude that generally comes across on here then we deserve all we get. As others have said the minority will ruin it for the rest and no doubt be proud of the fact! You must also be the sort of people who think burnouts and graffiti tagging is great.

I don't personally know Darren/Kitehard, but i know of him both as the guy who runs AKS at Pinnaroo and as a regular poster on here. I couldn't agree more with what he says in the majority of his posts (with the exception of line cutting and even then I can totally understand how frustration led him to make this comment). I applaud him wholehearted for standing up and making sensible comments in a sea of otherwise usually utter crap comments.

I have no idea who waveslave is and frankly i don't want to know, but what I do know is that whilst he thinks his comments are clever, funny, cocky and that he is the loan ranger making a stance against the establishment, actually they are usually just childish and pointless.

For god sake people - grow up, contribute to, and protect the sport that we all love and enjoy so much by having consideration for other kiters, other beach users and other water users. It really shouldn't be that hard if we all make a bit of effort and use common sense. Whether you like it or not kiting is no longer the sport of the rebel hardcore adrenalin junky who is the envy of all on the beach. It is now a commercial sport open for all to do. Girls on the beach don't stare in adoration at the amazing kite surfing guy, because they can see 50 of them on every Perth beach, every day of the year!

If you want to be a pioneer of some death defying sport, i suggest strapping a joint of blood dripping beef to your feet and swimming to rottnest or something equally as insane!

Lemm

Please note: no responsibility will be taken for any shark related injuries/deaths by anyone stupid enough to strap a joint of blood dripping beef to their feet and swimming to Rottnest.

For those of you that think self regulation works, tell me how it has worked thus far? Are the guys really any less idiotic at your spots? I've seen so called "self regulation" at a number of kite spots and I've seen how it works, or doesn't. In reality, when some idiot does something close to shore, nobody says anything about it. If they do, he says sorry, and does it again next time anyway. Most of the time, when someone says something, they cop a mouthful ("I've been kiting this spot for 7 years and nobody is going to tell me how I should kite) from the individual so they don't bother again. Self regulation? Its a myth!

If self regulation really worked we wouldn't need drink driving laws. What makes you think that kiters (mostly adrenaline junkies) are going to be any more responsible than the average yobbo on the roads? Even with laws, we have to put people in jail because they ignore it when their license is taken away for repeated offences.

when i grow up, i wanna be a waveslave.

Mr float said...
So what do you and the others who are thinking along these lines suggest ?(please note i am not making a smart arse 'trying to catch you out post') I (and I am sure others ) are interested in alternate ideas

I'm just pointing out that self regulation has not worked in the past and is highly unlikely to work in future because you are relying on everyone to be disciplined and lets me honest, they're not. Spend some time on the trams and trains in Melbourne and have a look at some of the youth coming through. They feel nothing to swear at adults and call elderly women c**nt's to their faces, and have no respect for anyone including themselves. I've seen youngsters in the gold coast boast about getting their ex-girlfriends beaten up by other girls and the fact that they have already been to court for assault...and this behaviour they are proud of. I've had a beer bottle thrown at me because I had the ordacity to honk my horn at 4 idiots who decided to walk across the road at a traffic light about 5 seconds after it had gone green for the cars and then decided to walk at 1km/h forcing the traffic for them to wait. We've been lucky that not many of these Neanderthals have got involved in kiting, but they coming. We've only had to deal with the everyday morons, imagine how bad its going to be when these idiots get given kites by their parents who would do anything to keep them off the streets and away from drugs and alcohol.

Australia is already far more regulated than a lot of places I've been to. If you think regulation isn't coming, you are kidding yourself. Improvements in self-regulation may delay the inevitable but as Rob from KBV pointed out, when you have guys doing tricks right near shore who nearly decapitate an elderly man walking with his dog, you're eventually going to find yourself in a position where regulation is imposed upon us (by councils) or complete bans for surburban beaches forcing people to travel 100km's to the nearest quiet beach.

Licensing in scuba diving was imposed voluntarily primarily for insurance reasons. In the old days, when you dived on your own, nobody cared if you came up too quickly and removed yourself from the planet. Then lawsuits arrived and shops had to cover themselves when shops got sued for selling equipment to people who didn't know how to use it. The insurance companies would not cover people without formal regulations in place to protect them and hence regulation became a norm. Up till that point, training was optional for recreational divers and only mandatory for commercial divers. The problem with kiting is you have a lot of shops out to make a quick buck and hence, they have no intention of enforcing training on people if it means losing out on a $2000 kite sale, after all, if they don't sell to the guy, he'll buy from another unscrupulous supplier who will. Without formal certifications, how can you tell if a guy knows how to kite?

If I was to try solve this, I'd do it the following way. Firstly, you'd need all the retailers on board to agree to enforce mandatory training or to check certification on sales. You'd also need distributors to agree not to supply kites to those who don't adhere to this. You'd need everyone to agree to the type of certification (IKO level 3 or whatever is appropriate - I'm not saying IKO is ideal, you may decide on an AKSA equivalent) as a minimum benchmark for entrance into the sport. If the retailers won't agree, it maybe be worth reminding them that most of their business comes from people seeing kiting on popular beaches so if its banned there, their business is going to dry up pretty quickly.

You'd also need to agree with the council that it is sign posted that a minimum level is required for kiting at any urban kiting spots. Once you have that done, it would be impossible to enforce everyone to retake the IKO level that you specify, so you'd need a 6 month cooling off period where all existing kiter's are able to get a certification simply by demonstrating their ability to do a couple of basics things like stay upwind, jump etc. You could charge a nominal once off fee for this, say $30 which gives you some tags for your kite so if the coast guard find it they know who to contact, the cost of card processing, admin and to cover the instructors 5 minutes. There you have a life time card which the member can then use as his right to kite suburban beaches. In applying for their registration, you would have a set of terms and conditions which include behaviour, rules and regulations, and information on how their registration can be revoked if they behave like an idiot.

Now, the advantage with this type of setup is simple. Firstly, no annual fee's unless they join the local body. The council says you must be certified to ride the beach, it doesn't have to police the beach, the schools and anyone else can. They simply walk up, ask the guy for proof (which should be attached to his kite or on a card). For guys who act like idiots, the organisation may choose to revoke their registration (they would need a code of conduct) for repeat offences thereby removing the person's ability to kite at busier spots. The tag on the kite makes it easy to spot non-registered members. The council doesn't have to manage this, the local organisation can, and in doing so, can manage offenders without having to call in the council unless the offender attempts to ride at a particular spot after his registration has been revoked. No annual cost, semi-self regulated.

Of course, this is an idea I've come up with in the last 20 minutes, so feel free to rip it to pieces or make better suggestions.

TurtleHunter said...

How about placing a sign with the codes of conduct at beaches where there is a problem.
If someone breaks the code then tell them to read the sign.
All beaches are different and it is mainly the metro beaches which have a problem.
No license is going to stop the idiots without police to enforce the law.

now theres a good start that could be managable !
maybe several bullet points on a sign like, suggestions only im sure we can modify
SOME COMMONSENSE RULES FOR KITERS
1) be safe
2) dont kite near swimmers
3) dont showoff in the swimmers area
4) stay 40mts? from surfers
5) stay 40mts? windsurfers
6) put your name on your kite and your board
7) dont be adick head kiter (only kidden)

so if you see some one doing the wrongy just point to the rules for kiters sign. maybe tell em check out rule 7

if 50 of us put in $5 im sure we could cover key areas locally ( speaking about WA metro ) im also sure we could also the key manufactuers for a little assistance as it is also in there best interest as well.
councils would be supportive i think ????????

Saffer said...

Mr float said...
So what do you and the others who are thinking along these lines suggest ?(please note i am not making a smart arse 'trying to catch you out post') I (and I am sure others ) are interested in alternate ideas

I'm just pointing out that self regulation has not worked in the past and is highly unlikely to work in future because you are relying on everyone to be disciplined and lets me honest, they're not.
...<SNIP>...
Of course, this is an idea I've come up with in the last 20 minutes, so feel free to rip it to pieces or make better suggestions.

This is real progress Saffer - agree with the stuff <SNIP>ed out.

Yesterday on News Radio I was listening to a PhD research report by Monash Uni into bicycle "bunch" riding hazards to pedestrians in Victoria. This was prompted after a pedestrian was killed by a "bunch" of cyclist in Melbourne. In short, the research indicated that Melbourne cycling behaviours had changed since the fatality not just in bunches but as individuals. The main problem areas of bike bunches hogging multiple lanes of traffic, going thru red lights & stop signs, riding in pedestrian only areas (etc) had declined substantially, presumably due to a combination of public awareness and outrage at cyclist behaviours in the City. This suggest that self regulation can work to some effect, albeit where there is public contempt applied consistently and organisations (peers) prepared to get the message out there. It is not however a panacea.

I think a multi faceted approach is required that involves self regulation, council by-laws and signage, education, and kite registration. Kiter licensing will need to start life as a token gesture until we see how it pans out. It is however another tool to help regulate the sport. As I just said, it will never be just one thing, but many things, that will all contribute to remediating the fundamental issue of kiter anarchy on the beaches.