2 Things have become very apparent from the questions being asked in both the Newbie forum and on the general forum.

1) Either people are not getting lessons.

2) Instructors are not teaching safety aspects of kiting.


Noobs : Please continue to ask questions ( it is in everyone's best interests ) but also please consider getting a few LESSONS

INSTRUCTORS & KITE SCHOOLS : For GODS Sake instead of just focussing on the $$$$$$$ and pumping as many people through and out on the board as soon as possible pay some consideration to teaching proper safety proceedures.

i) do you teach your students about kite sizes and winds ( including the effects of cliff updrafts and wind shadows ) ?
ii) do you teach your students about the rights of way rules ?
iii) do you teach your students about NO BOATING ZONES and relevant markers ?
iv) do you teach your students how to self land in case of emergency etc.... ?

AND THE BIG ONE :

Do you teach your students how to self rescue ? This means physically teaching them water packdowns for SELF rescue not just telling them how to do it !!!!!!!!!!

All of the above should be mandatory learning before even considering getting your students out on the board. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you are not throughly covering safety for new kiters you are doing us all a disservice.


STUDENTS : If you are having lessons or have recently had lessons and are not/were not taught any of the above things ASK FOR YOUR MONEY BACK and go to an instructor who will teach you these things.

PS : there are 4 or 5 kite schools operating out of St Kilda NOT ONCE in the last 5 years have I seen any of them physically teaching self rescue.

If you are not teaching your students the critical safety aspects WTF are they paying for

I look forward to the excuses !!

As a newbie-noob-noob I've got to say that all of that is completely unnecessary, just grab a kite & go for it!!

Kidding.

I agree wholeheartedly, why are there those out there that think it's ok to take short cuts? (noobs and instructors)
Lessons are a must, especially if you've been reading seabreeze for a while & heard about the various kitemares/ dangerous practices that go on
At the very least, having lessons is going to shallow out the learning curve to help you get going quicker in the sport you've come to love/obsess about

Even if you constantly trawl the net like I have for as much info/tips/techniques etc, it's no way close to being a substitute for having a few lessons & to actually be physically shown things step by step.
You've got to learn the basics, including how to be safe!

I've only had one lesson so far, more are booked, I found the instruction very good, the first lesson dealt with the rigging up of the kite, the safety mechanisms, how to safely launch & land & performing a self rescue.
Man, I couldn't imagine feeling confident & safe heading out on a kite without knowing how to self rescue.
It's just good sense to learn these things.

harry potter said...

2 Things have become very apparent from the questions being asked in both the Newbie forum and on the general forum.

1) Either people are not getting lessons.

2) Instructors are not teaching safety aspects of kiting.


Noobs : Please continue to ask questions ( it is in everyone's best interests ) but also please consider getting a few LESSONS

INSTRUCTORS & KITE SCHOOLS : For GODS Sake instead of just focussing on the $$$$$$$ and pumping as many people through and out on the board as soon as possible pay some consideration to teaching proper safety proceedures.

i) do you teach your students about kite sizes and winds ( including the effects of cliff updrafts and wind shadows ) ?
ii) do you teach your students about the rights of way rules ?
iii) do you teach your students about NO BOATING ZONES and relevant markers ?
iv) do you teach your students how to self land in case of emergency etc.... ?

AND THE BIG ONE :

Do you teach your students how to self rescue ? This means physically teaching them water packdowns for SELF rescue not just telling them how to do it !!!!!!!!!!

All of the above should be mandatory learning before even considering getting your students out on the board. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you are not throughly covering safety for new kiters you are doing us all a disservice.


STUDENTS : If you are having lessons or have recently had lessons and are not/were not taught any of the above things ASK FOR YOUR MONEY BACK and go to an instructor who will teach you these things.

PS : there are 4 or 5 kite schools operating out of St Kilda NOT ONCE in the last 5 years have I seen any of them physically teaching self rescue.

If you are not teaching your students the critical safety aspects WTF are they paying for

I look forward to the excuses !!

do i wipe his backside too

I think you have to recognise that self rescue is different for every type of kite and condition. I've been kiting for 6 years, practiced self rescue with all my kites but still got hammered when I recently lost a pulley. The lines got crazily tangled before I could find out that I hadn't broken my IDS line and could deploy it.

My point : sure the schools should teach it, but practicing with your own kite - and exchanging tips for your kite is even better.

what are you doing wrong if you are charging $85/hr and still not running a profitable business.

btw, what is the proper way of launching and landing a kite? i've helped launch/land a fair few but never really been taught the proper method, so i stay away from launching people if it's over 20kts.

Calculate the amount of windy days in a year and how many of them fall on weekends.

Work out how many days the wind is too strong, gusty etc

Work out the tides.

Calculate the cost of the equipment, licences, insurance, vehicles, marketing etc

It's not like plumbing or concreting where you can pile up the work and slog through it. You only have a small window of opportunity and students who only can make it on certain days.

$85 per hour is still not enough to actually make it a fulltime job.

lotofwind said...

Bigwavedave said...

Calculate the amount of windy days in a year and how many of them fall on weekends.

Work out how many days the wind is too strong, gusty etc

Work out the tides.

Calculate the cost of the equipment, licences, insurance, vehicles, marketing etc

It's not like plumbing or concreting where you can pile up the work and slog through it. You only have a small window of opportunity and students who only can make it on certain days.

$85 per hour is still not enough to actually make it a fulltime job

^^^^^ or you could start giving windsurfing(pole dancing) lessons.

at least then you wouldnt have to teach right of way rules in the waves
Wouldnt need to teach any saftey issues either,must be the safest sport around.I guess thats why its a sport for the oldies
If you cant handle the power of the wind,you just drop your sail and crawl onto your boat(board) and wait for a kiter to help you out.

Oh,and they must be a pensioner,and in the local quilting club

ps and wear your shorts pulled up to your nipples and say "back in my day" all the time

If you do start giving pole dancing lessons,let me know,so in 50 years or so, when Im old and slow and hanging at the bowls club, you can give me a lesson.
Might have to go to a museum by then to lend some gear though.
Does anyone actually get poledancing lessons anymore,I guess there wouldnt be much demand,if any now days,

sounds like you have pole envy or some serious issues with windsurfers. Let it go dude, you're poisoning your liver.

do you need a uni degree to teach

So, where is the PDF that can be downloaded with the pictures and all the rules and safety things you need to know about kiting?

tarzan said...

If you want to learn about self rescue, look in the "Self Rescue" thread in the Kitesurfing-General forum.

I think that is what got "Harry Potter" so worked up in the first place.

not so much due to that post ..... I have mentioned these points several times before.

It is just very frustrating that these instructors grab your $85 teach you for an hour and then le
their students loose.

1st lesson should be theory based this includes learning about rights of way, boating zones, etc ..... There is no reason for this lesson to be $85 can easily be done as a group lesson..... Give the students some sort of literature to read/ take home : re rules, marks , winds and effect... Those who learn and understand can move to using a kite and board.... Those who can't be bothered ......don't !!

This will help sort out those who are serious about kiting and those who think it's a bit of fun to try while on holiday . There seems to be a common thread with kite schools and that is "get the students inthe water and possibly on the board as soon as possible, if they have fun they will buy more lessons and bring their friends and more $$$$$$ ..... "

As it is there is mot much difference to teaching someone to steer and turn a car in a carpark but not teach them any road rules etc.... And then sending them out onto the roads giving them a false security because they think they have been taught. This is endangering all.

I just think the kite schools and instructors need to take more responsability for the lack of noob knowledge particularly as seeing once they pocket their $85 they send the students down to our local kite spots (totally unprepared ) for the local kiters to deal with.

Noobs: this rant is not directed at you ....but at the blokes who take your money but don't actually teach you simple safety proceedures and rules. Any one can fly a kite... Even without lessons it's not that hard to work out.... But there is only one way to learn rescues, rules, rights of way and safety ... And that is to be taught it ....
Clearly most are not being taught these basic fundamentals !!!!!

I think that you are just trying to point the finger because kiteboarding being a self regulated sport isnt working. The sooner that they introduce licencing the sooner blame can be allocated. And the sooner the sport can become safer and only have people that know these rules and that have the skills to kite on the water.

Only then could kiteboarding instructors make enougth money from the sport to do it for a living and if they were not doing things the right way they would loose there licence to instruct getting in to kiting would be a lot more expensive and put a lot of people off but at least there would be no other way to get involved(eg self taught). You cant hold them acountable for just doing there job at the moment. **** if they didnt exist at the moment there would be newbies everywhere causing all sorts of isues.

Robe said...

If a teacher was to demonstrate a practical self rescue, where would the student be situated? On the beach? how much would they see? Maybe we should tie them to the backs of our harnesses? That could work-

My instructor taught me how to do it on the beach with a small LEI. He released it to 5th line (Back in 06, it was a Naish Boxer), then we walked through it - wind in the 5th a few metres, then start winding all your other lines. When you get to the kite, hold both wing tips to use it like a sail. He then showed how to deflate the leading edge and roll up the kite like a sausage if things went pear shaped and say, the wind had gone offshore.

Of course, doing a self rescue is hard work when you are in the water! There is a big gap between knowing what you need to do and actually doing it. Unless you are a looong way out, you probably will ge blown to shore sooner than you can go through the whole process. I have always owned SLEs - my kites seems to drift away from you faster than you can swim to it while winding in your lines in most cases, even putting lots of turns in the flagging line still makes for an exhausting process.

The best piece of advice he gave was, always stay with your kite - it is a lot easier to spot someone with their kite than floating in the water by themselves.

what about the progression dvd. It goes over all the safety and ROW rules.
If your about to learn get the dvd and a trainer kite and your half way through your lessons.
Do you really wan't regulation, how many of you sell your gear without checking the person who you sell it to knows the ROW rules

5 years ago I spent $800 on my first session of lessons and still could not kite on a "c" . I then bought a trainer kite to understand the wind window. I so badly wanted to be a kiter, not a poley anymore.
I'm not normally considered an idiot but in hindsight I could today teach myself the same skills with todays technology within two hours.
I was focused on relauching the c and safety because I understood the greater dangers faced because of my understanding of even lesser dangers that poleys can face in variable wind and wave conditions.
I only advanced once I bought user friendly equipment and sort the advise of many knowledgeable and friendly locals. I now make a point of sharing observations with newbies.
So given that most kiters are
normal people with at least average intelligence and
have a varying ability to learn and
only retain a very limited knowledge from any lesson
most will learn to kite in time
I believe the safety aspet is self imposed through the visual exposure to the risks.
We see dumb avoidable incidents most days we kite near newbies. This reinforces our appreciation of safety.
The solution as I see it is to bombard the new student with kite accident videos prior to selling them a kite or at the completion of their first lesson.
A reasonable person will act to protect themselves.
ps
Nice Landing Matt C (how's your kite?) knee pads and elbow pads next time hey. You young fellas. **** for brains some days.

Students are typically so keen to get in the water that they only retain a quarter of what is said on the safety stuff.

So teaching self rescue is necessary but not sufficient. I reckon The key is to get students to practice self-rescue themselves until they can do it on autopilot. Lots of kiteschools only teach people who have 3-5 hours of trainer kite practice under their belt. Why couldn't they ask the same for self rescue (all students need is an old bar and lines)?