Kitesurf Ban in Belguim

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kyteryder
kyteryder
NSW
692 posts
NSW, 692 posts
6 Feb 2011 11:46pm
Surf Connect.

It seems very obvious what the true motives are.


A bit of sour grapes
SurfConnect
SurfConnect
QLD
1674 posts
QLD, 1674 posts
6 Feb 2011 11:04pm
Not at all, it is all for safety of the sport, whether for each individual kiter, or for our school.

If you take a look at the coast (Sunshine or Gold), every beach has only ONE permit allowed for each school. No other schools are allowed to teach at the same beach. Why? For safety reasons. Right now, KP come all the way to teach at Sandgate where we are based and teach from. This cause extreme safety concerns as my instructors day in day out points out. Putting a regulation in place will ensure such risks is put at the lowest level.



kyteryder said...

Surf Connect.

It seems very obvious what the true motives are.


A bit of sour grapes


jas73
jas73
QLD
796 posts
QLD, 796 posts
6 Feb 2011 11:08pm
Even though KP has only 2 instructors, one who mainly works week ends, and if it's blowing SE they more often than not use Brighton. How many instructors do you cram on the water on any given day again???

I am going to just say this issue is and should not be organised by any private enterprise for obvious reasons. End of story...
mofo
mofo
QLD
91 posts
QLD, 91 posts
6 Feb 2011 11:11pm
jas73 said...

Even though KP has only 2 instructors, one who mainly works week ends, and if it's blowing SE they more often than not use Brighton. How many instructors do you cram on the water on any given day again???


Answer == as many as possible, thats why the joint sucks so bad .
djdojo
djdojo
VIC
1614 posts
VIC, 1614 posts
7 Feb 2011 12:23am
Regulating the schools is completely different to regulating competent kiters and should be discussed separately.

If you're taking money to teach an activity for sure there should be reasonable regulation depending on the spot.

I don't know the venue in question but the idea that I as an experienced kiter, would need a "locally" provided tag (in addition to an aksa tag) to kite at a given spot I may be visiting is flat out ridiculous. Will I need a local driver's license as well as my Vic license to drive there?
SurfConnect
SurfConnect
QLD
1674 posts
QLD, 1674 posts
6 Feb 2011 11:24pm
Mofo

As to who is going to police it, is not my decision or call. But whoever it is, they will hopefully have the power to do so. Whether it takes one year or ten years to put this in place, whether there is only one school, or 10 schools at the same beach, we need to find a solution to ensure no one, including guys like you who has been using the area well before anyone started kiting there, is put at risk, so everyone who use the water can do so in a safe manner.

Of course, at the same time, this is my business, and it is only natural that I do everything I need to to protect it too.

I have spent a lot of money in lawyers and town planners consultation fees to date, it could be money down the drain, but for what it is worth, it is worth spending.

Thanks for your concerns, our property is fully licensed and insured to conduct the activities we conduct. We just had a full council inspection
Shouldnt have painted it green - its attracting too much attention!


mofo said...

Dear Padi, I heard this rumor a few months back and swore someone was having a lend of me, please tell us you are not serious..!!!??

Who's going to police it? You? pft.. The only authority who will have any sort of power to police it will not be bothered moving on naughty kiters who don't have a certain license to kite there, what can they do? Chuck them in the slammer for the night? Arrest them and send them to court? Chances..... Maybe you could put up a huge fence from 1st av to 25th av with a electronic card reader on the gate to allow access to only permitted users, or better still hire a huge bouncer to man the gate, and he can beat the crap out of anyone who does not comply...or better still you could carry on with this horse crap and make us all look like whyning little bitches and have the sport banned altogether in the area?

...how are you going to stop any visitors kiting there? Like I said Good luck , you will never do it as it with severely affect your business financially.

The answer to your problem at the pool is right under your nose and I believe the cause of most of the dramas is caused by yourself, Having 3-4 lessons (your school alone)going at once is BS , no wonder why there is no room for anyone else, hence the tension.

I propose the council / governing authority limit each shop/school to one or two instructor licenses ,this will limit congestion on the beach and water , you my friend do not own that beach ,no one does in Australia we have things called public beaches ,I been windsurfing right there since you were crapping in your nappy , it is a prime piece of beach and one of the best learning spots in Brisbane.
.
From the outside as a non involved 3rd party, the ongoing dispute and altercations you have with another school looks primarilally business motivated ,your philosophy seems to be to get as many instructors as possible ,teach as many people as you physically can take their money off them then set them free on the rest of the world ( great for your business ,nightmare for the rest of the local kiters ) Speaking of buisness ,just wondering, that house you have taken over, is that zoned as a boarding house /shop ?? May have to get my town planner to look into that??


Got my fire suit on so

FLAME ON BEIATCHES[}:)]


Saffer
Saffer
VIC
4501 posts
VIC, 4501 posts
7 Feb 2011 12:32am
jas73 said...

Saffer this is why i think it should be up to a club and NOT a private business.


First off, posting private messages on the public forum is likely to get you in a whole heap of trouble, its against forum rules, but we'll leave that to Laurie.

Anyway, aside from that, we have 3 schools operating at St Kilda and its a nightmare because of it. 3 schools competing means they're also competing to see how instructors they have on the beach. The result is that its a nightmare. If they'd tried to split them to different locations things may be better. Who has lost out because of it? The kiters, not the schools.

Next question, who was there first? Was kitepower or surfconnect? If it was surfconnect, then why has kitepower chosen to locate their training directly outside an opposition store when it would be known to create antagonism? If it was kitepower, then why has surfconnect chosen to teach there? Seems unnecessary and explains some of the antagonism experienced up in QLD but we don't even need to go into certain shop riders riding through competition areas after it was posted on facebook that they should (yeah, I saw the post on facebook before it was deleted so I know it did exist). It seems part of this would have been avoided if shop owners acted like businessmen instead of school kids.

Now, as for his intentions, doesn't seem like he's trying to sell tags, it looks like he's trying to protect a beach he created and I'd probably be inclined to do the same given the history. The only limitation he's put in place is number of schools operating, the rest has everything to do with safety and if you stay within the guidelines you probably won't have hassles. Given the location of the beach, I'd say he has an invested interest in ensuring it stays open and has as little hassles as possible.
jas73
jas73
QLD
796 posts
QLD, 796 posts
6 Feb 2011 11:53pm
Mate i posted it because of the direction this thread had taken. Sandgate beach is a big area. It is shallow and perfect for beginners. There are only three businesses in this area which 2 get along and work in together very well. If everyone worked together it could be a great kiting environment. We dont get the crowds to this beach like the north and south coast and there are plenty of older and experienced kiters to keep the incidents down. I think it is just a storm in a tea cup how this beach is made out to be so dangerous. I have seen people coming to all the beaches is this area with chairs just to watch the kiting. One old couple said to me a while ago i wish they had this when we where younger. Generally it has good support from the public.

Saffer said...

jas73 said...

Saffer this is why i think it should be up to a club and NOT a private business.


First off, posting private messages on the public forum is likely to get you in a whole heap of trouble, its against forum rules, but we'll leave that to Laurie.

Anyway, aside from that, we have 3 schools operating at St Kilda and its a nightmare because of it. 3 schools competing means they're also competing to see how instructors they have on the beach. The result is that its a nightmare. If they'd tried to split them to different locations things may be better. Who has lost out because of it? The kiters, not the schools.

Next question, who was there first? Was kitepower or surfconnect? If it was surfconnect, then why has kitepower chosen to locate their training directly outside an opposition store when it would be known to create antagonism? If it was kitepower, then why has surfconnect chosen to teach there? Seems unnecessary and explains some of the antagonism experienced up in QLD but we don't even need to go into certain shop riders riding through competition areas after it was posted on facebook that they should (yeah, I saw the post on facebook before it was deleted so I know it did exist). It seems part of this would have been avoided if shop owners acted like businessmen instead of school kids.

Now, as for his intentions, doesn't seem like he's trying to sell tags, it looks like he's trying to protect a beach he created and I'd probably be inclined to do the same given the history. The only limitation he's put in place is number of schools operating, the rest has everything to do with safety and if you stay within the guidelines you probably won't have hassles.


the gibbo
the gibbo
WA
776 posts
WA, 776 posts
6 Feb 2011 10:31pm
SurfConnect said...

Not at all, it is all for safety of the sport, whether for each individual kiter, or for our school.

If you take a look at the coast (Sunshine or Gold), every beach has only ONE permit allowed for each school. No other schools are allowed to teach at the same beach. Why? For safety reasons. Right now, KP come all the way to teach at Sandgate where we are based and teach from. This cause extreme safety concerns as my instructors day in day out points out. Putting a regulation in place will ensure such risks is put at the lowest level.



kyteryder said...

Surf Connect.

It seems very obvious what the true motives are.


A bit of sour grapes





ah the real reason comes to the fore
i just think you trod in something Surfy
Bigwavedave
Bigwavedave
QLD
2057 posts
QLD, 2057 posts
7 Feb 2011 2:21am
f you take a look at the coast (Sunshine or Gold), every beach has only ONE permit allowed for each school. No other schools are allowed to teach at the same beach.


Not an accurate statement.

No permits at Cotton tree and everybody teaches there.

The one location one permit is nothing to do with safety as it includes icecream vendors, surf schools etc. It is purely a regulatory condition made up by a council administrator.

Pls don't use our embarrassing situation to legitimise what is occurring at your local.

Australia prides itself on freedom. Do not try to restrict my access to my beach because of your commercial interests.

Instigation of regulation without evidence is irresponsible. Compare accidents while surfing, sailing, goat boating blah blah blah. Provide a list of statistics and data, followed by proof that regulation will reduce any risk.

Do not open this can of worms.

Keep your commercial interests inside your shop.
laurie
laurie
NSW
3902 posts
NSW, 3902 posts
7 Feb 2011 1:03pm

Reset!

Sorry folks, but this topic went right off the rails with some commercial infighting.


Please can everybody keep on track (kite safety, beach preservation) please.


Play the ball, not the man, thanks.
RichardM
RichardM
QLD
58 posts
QLD, 58 posts
7 Feb 2011 12:09pm
laurie said...


Reset!

Sorry folks, but this topic went right off the rails with some commercial infighting.


Please can everybody keep on track (kite safety, beach preservation) please.


Play the ball, not the man, thanks.

Laurie so you removed my post for one of your advertisers, I followed all protocols no personal attack, no posting priv messages. so your telling me I can't add the facts to the discussion that the thread is about.
Can I star a thread about the direct issue with our beach or will you remove that as www ?
jas73
jas73
QLD
796 posts
QLD, 796 posts
7 Feb 2011 12:42pm
Hopefully one day the party in question will see the light and realise everyone it not out to destroy his business. Everyone around here gets along just fine so it would be nice to see him do the same. This sport is getting more and more popular by the season and needs to have some sort of unity to keep it as professional and safe as possible but going down the path of pointing the finger at someone because there not wearing the right colour shirt is not going to help. When you go to a beach and feel like your constantly being watched in the in the chance you do something someone dosent like is crap. This is Australia not Belgim. And has anyone actually found anything to confirm this thread yet?
laurie
laurie
NSW
3902 posts
NSW, 3902 posts
7 Feb 2011 2:23pm
RichardM said...

laurie said...


Reset!

Sorry folks, but this topic went right off the rails with some commercial infighting.


Please can everybody keep on track (kite safety, beach preservation) please.


Play the ball, not the man, thanks.

Laurie so you removed my post for one of your advertisers, I followed all protocols no personal attack, no posting priv messages. so your telling me I can't add the facts to the discussion that the thread is about.
Can I star a thread about the direct issue with our beach or will you remove that as www ?


Did you read this bit...


Problems with Moderation?
Q. I've had a post or thread removed, should I post about it?

A. Do not create a thread or post complaining about the moderation action. Complaint Topics or posts will be deleted.

Q. If I shouldn't post about the moderation problem, what should I do?

A. The correct first step if you wish to discuss a moderation action, is to politely contact us with your viewpoint.

Moderators are human and are eager to develop good relationships with all forum members.

Moderators understand firstly that they can make mistakes, and secondly that members make mistakes.

They also understand that there can be miscommunication. Approached politely, and with a constructive attitude most issues have been quickly resolved.


Too continue further, please understand that myself, nor any of the other moderaters are involved in the dispute, just trying to run a friendly forum.

Your statement "removed my post for one of your advertisers" suggesting that there is some sort of bias is not appropriate - both businesses advertise on here, and sponsor or not, rules are applied as best as possible to everybody, as anyone who's been here a while can atest.

You're welcome to PM for further discussion, but it would be appreciated if you really just get on with discussing a solution to the problem at hand and don't get bogged down in personal stuff & taking offense.

You're welcome to post again, you've not been banned, and no bad feeling towards you either!



This whole topic has gone pear shaped, and if it results in more business -vs- business stuff, yeah, it will be locked. This forum is not the place for that kind of discussion. A couple of the particpants here have already had over half a dozen forum fights removed for this exact reason.

Enjoy
Paul1
Paul1
QLD
1011 posts
QLD, 1011 posts
7 Feb 2011 1:42pm
The solution is for them to all stop being children and arrange to sit around a table and have an open discussion, the behaviour in the posted video was the actions of a 5 year old.
kyteryder
kyteryder
NSW
692 posts
NSW, 692 posts
7 Feb 2011 3:08pm
After all the bickering has finished . I hope we can get back to banning Kitesurfing in Belgium or was it not banning kitesurfing in Belgium. I forget what the topic was about. But read below: Does anyone have any further information. Or are we going to call Brisbane "Little Belgium", and end the topic.



kyteryder said...

I have read 3 separate kitesurfing forums, and haven't found a single site that references that actual wording from the government. I have googled and search the web for nearly an hour. Still can't find a link. I have been on a Belgium government website. And still can't find the actual government memo.

If this is true, then can someone enlighten me, where it is published.

By the way Belgium is banning the burka. That is what i have learnt from my detailed search.



Saffer
Saffer
VIC
4501 posts
VIC, 4501 posts
7 Feb 2011 11:57pm
Why don't you email or phone him and ask?
Rattlehead
Rattlehead
QLD
555 posts
QLD, 555 posts
7 Feb 2011 11:30pm
Saffer said...

Why don't you email or phone him and ask?


It's a public beach and as far as I know this is a public forum.why not keep all discussions public
Saffer
Saffer
VIC
4501 posts
VIC, 4501 posts
8 Feb 2011 9:06am
If you can't sit around a table and get it right do you honestly think the Internet is going to work where half the people are abusive and hide beyond anonymous logins? Guess again.

My interest in this thread:

1. It's in the general thread and had been sidetracked by people with an agenda. I don't see how Belgium is state specific to QLD?
2. I don't see how ganging up on a retailer is going to resolve anything other than forcing him to do whatever he is doing underground
3. It's clear there are multiple shops in Brisbane who seem to have an issue being civil

That said, I understand what Padi I'd trying to achieve. If I had a shop on a particular beach, I'd be doing my best to keep it open which includes trying to control the behavior of people on the beach. Most people would do the same.
GalahOnTheBay
GalahOnTheBay
NSW
4188 posts
NSW, 4188 posts
8 Feb 2011 2:10pm
Where do I start...

Some of the things that got this thread locked:
- Way off topic (again!)
- Posting of personal details
- Repeated personal abuse

Whilst it is certainly worth discussing the QLD beach issue, Seabeeze is far from the right place for this to happen. Saffer said it best:

Saffer said...

If you can't sit around a table and get it right do you honestly think the Internet is going to work where half the people are abusive and hide beyond anonymous logins? Guess again.


To address the question of free speech (yet again) - think of these forums as visiting someone's house, because in effect that is what you are doing when you post here.

If you want free speech, if you want to abuse others, if you want to share personal information, or if you just want to be obnoxious please feel free to step outside the bounds of this website and say/do whatever you want.

But when you are visiting here please respect our house rules: www.seabreeze.com.au/Members/Help/ForumRules.aspx


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