Forums > Kitesurfing General

Kitesurf Jump height measurements......... on your smartwatch?

Reply
Created by dachopper > 9 months ago, 1 May 2022
dachopper
WA, 1782 posts
6 Mar 2023 9:12PM
Thumbs Up

Version 2.1 of Kitejump Beta is released here:

apps.garmin.com/en-US/apps/ca00d0a1-542c-40eb-9ba5-869c8308d865

Changes:


Fixed ( I think ) graph issue in Connect IQ where jump graph data and background were both black ( face palm emoji here )




New user front end screens ( 3 )

Auto session record on application start

Activated calibration menu to increase or decrease detection sensitivity

Added version number in menu for easier feedback



Enjoy and get out there !


dachopper
WA, 1782 posts
6 Mar 2023 9:21PM
Thumbs Up

Thanks for the feedback...

I really need to see the graph in the Garmin Connect Mobile, so I can see if the 60 meter was a one off or not.

One off's are not currently filtered for until I get my head around how they are being generated.
I can tell you basically they occurs because the watch has detected something that is not a jump, as a jump - and that is where the issue stems from. It could be that you did a jump, and when you landed the watch thought that you had just launched for example.

Do me a favour,
If you are jumping big ) 6 meters plus ), you can try version 2.1
MENU, CALIBRATE ,
Click Decrease detection once..... This will still pickup all jumps from my experience.

However if you are doing small or poor technique jumps ( 2 - 3 metres ) They might be missed

Mswarbs
VIC, 2 posts
8 Mar 2023 1:42PM
Thumbs Up

Hi,
Out again today, with updated version. I hadn't changed sensitivity. It's a very choppy and gusty spot.
Says 40m today (although it felt like I was that high I'm assuming I didn't break the world record!). Was on a 7m, gusting 35 ish knots as a guess. I'm not looping.
let me know if you need more pics







Froth Goth
294 posts
9 Mar 2023 7:38AM
Thumbs Up










Froth Goth
294 posts
9 Mar 2023 7:41AM
Thumbs Up

Incredibly accurate on the garmin instinct 2 surf edition.

Absolute woo killer. Just gotto work with strava to have a leaderboard implemented and youll completely destroy surfr/woo

What do i need to do to get a lifetime member pass for this watch app dachopper?

Was interesting hearing dave kay talk about it on podcast 365 he stayed fairly neutral but as a bit of a network engineer and flight computer instrument nerd this app paired with the garmin watch and strava possibility is like a drone grenade in a russians trench to the woo
Majority of my jumps were unhooked kiteloops but i threw a few kooky hooked in things just to test the watch for ya

dachopper
WA, 1782 posts
9 Mar 2023 3:26PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Mswarbs said..
Hi,
Out again today, with updated version. I hadn't changed sensitivity. It's a very choppy and gusty spot.
Says 40m today (although it felt like I was that high I'm assuming I didn't break the world record!). Was on a 7m, gusting 35 ish knots as a guess. I'm not looping.
let me know if you need more pics











Thanks for that activity summary, that is very interesting !

A - I have no idea how or why Garmin is combining elevation and the kitesurf jump heights together on the 1 graph.
as far as I know it should be two seperate graphs ? My data is the tiny Blue peaks near the bottom - that have been scaled out nearly because of the inaccuracy of the elevation plot. Having said that, reading them looks like a lot of 5 - 6 meter jumps, with 3 0r 4 15 meter jumps, and the 44 meter. I will tighten up the detection requirements in the next iteration.

B - Look at your launch speed for the 44 meter high jump, according to GPS log, you were only doing 7 kts at takeoff, which sounds to me like it's a false jump rather than correctly calculated to 44 meters. ( were you only doing 7 kts? ). The length and hangtime measurements all seem realistic.


Can you open the app, and open the menu ( normal button you hold for menu ), and scroll down to tell me what version that was also?

If no version number in the menu, it's the old version ( 2.0)

dachopper
WA, 1782 posts
9 Mar 2023 3:31PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Voda. said..














Thanks for the picture,

I will change the colour of that graph today, and release version 2.3, the blue is nearly impossible to see against the black in the elevation plot.

Rest of your data looks ok

dachopper
WA, 1782 posts
9 Mar 2023 3:32PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Voda. said..
Incredibly accurate on the garmin instinct 2 surf edition.

Absolute woo killer. Just gotto work with strava to have a leaderboard implemented and youll completely destroy surfr/woo

What do i need to do to get a lifetime member pass for this watch app dachopper?

Was interesting hearing dave kay talk about it on podcast 365 he stayed fairly neutral but as a bit of a network engineer and flight computer instrument nerd this app paired with the garmin watch and strava possibility is like a drone grenade in a russians trench to the woo
Majority of my jumps were unhooked kiteloops but i threw a few kooky hooked in things just to test the watch for ya


Did you have a WOO on at the same time?
or
Subjective feeling abouts the highest jump accuracy?

Froth Goth
294 posts
9 Mar 2023 4:36PM
Thumbs Up

Nah highest jump was spot on my watch was telling me my jump height after every jump and was all completely spot on i have pretty good aerial awareness given my acro flying and freestyle kiteing etc etc im not really into boosting because it tends to pail a little to flying around at 3300 meters so yea not suggesting anything was out of the ordinary with exception of jump length when you do a railey and land hot as a qld summer the distance continues to be read but who cares its at such speed i cant see that being cancelled out unless you filter it with a impact sensor thing but even then i could get around that by just useing my body to take the shock and wouldnt trigger it.

So what do you think about going the strava route for leaderboards useing theyre segment/route mapping? Or maybe a upload file style ala www.xcontest.org/world/en/ that we do for paragliding flights? Or we could go toplogger style works great for climbing gyms around the world www.toplogger.nu/en-au/home makes climbing in a non top logger gym seem like a waste of time
I use all these pretty much daily and happy to send ya some screenshots of them small explanation how they work etc get ya in contact with theyre developers etc

dachopper
WA, 1782 posts
9 Mar 2023 5:08PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Voda. said..
Nah highest jump was spot on my watch was telling me my jump height after every jump and was all completely spot on i have pretty good aerial awareness given my acro flying and freestyle kiteing etc etc im not really into boosting because it tends to pail a little to flying around at 3300 meters so yea not suggesting anything was out of the ordinary with exception of jump length when you do a railey and land hot as a qld summer the distance continues to be read but who cares its at such speed i cant see that being cancelled out unless you filter it with a impact sensor thing but even then i could get around that by just useing my body to take the shock and wouldnt trigger it.

So what do you think about going the strava route for leaderboards useing theyre segment/route mapping? Or maybe a upload file style ala www.xcontest.org/world/en/ that we do for paragliding flights? Or we could go toplogger style works great for climbing gyms around the world www.toplogger.nu/en-au/home makes climbing in a non top logger gym seem like a waste of time
I use all these pretty much daily and happy to send ya some screenshots of them small explanation how they work etc get ya in contact with theyre developers etc



Thanks for the feedback

Yeah, I have interest from several at the moment, some on IOS, some on android, and some HTML.
With the Garmin ecosystem, I can get GCM, to tell your phone ( android or IOS ), to open a webpage that I have uploaded data to, so a web interface probably sounds like the best option here, but I'm looking into others like ZEF and waterspeed as they can import the data, or I can upload to them.

My priorities right now though are fine tuning the GCM displayed data, the jump triggers, the filters, and the assumptions.
Need a couple of months to get more data on the assumptions, as all my testing has been relatively small ( 4 to 10ish ) meter jumps so far.



VERSION 2.3 released now
Jump Graph now white on black
Detection threshold increased to avoid false jump detection
Min jump speed increase ( 8 kts ) to avoid false jump detection
calibration menu re-worded.


apps.garmin.com/en-US/apps/1980c826-844a-47f7-9ca8-ffc0e09ba2ba

dachopper
WA, 1782 posts
9 Mar 2023 5:30PM
Thumbs Up

10 x face palm emoji's !

Some users have black background, some have white.
Colour changed to electric green on white or green on black.
Graph will show peak heights, and change when another peak height is registered.

Version 2.4 now released

Froth Goth
294 posts
10 Mar 2023 7:18AM
Thumbs Up

If i use it while paragliding will that screw all ya data or do we have to manually send you the data?

dachopper
WA, 1782 posts
10 Mar 2023 1:08PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Voda. said..
If i use it while paragliding will that screw all ya data or do we have to manually send you the data?


You can try.... remeber it's only screwing your data :)

dachopper
WA, 1782 posts
16 Mar 2023 11:02PM
Thumbs Up

Version 2.5 released yesterday.
Increased false jump rejection.
Added ability to scroll through jumps during session.
apps.garmin.com/en-US/apps/ca00d0a1-542c-40eb-9ba5-869c8308d865

Enjoy :)



Froth Goth
294 posts
17 Mar 2023 5:49PM
Thumbs Up

Some body is scared of you

Funny how they neglect to mention garmins barometer which all flight computers use




Oh unrelated i logged out of my paragliding setting on instinct surf 2 and logged into your app mid flight and it kinda acted a little different obviously didnt register any jumps etc cause i was flying pretty smoothly on coast will try again starting with it on prior to launching.

dachopper
WA, 1782 posts
18 Mar 2023 7:45PM
Thumbs Up



Version 2.6 released.

2.5 was compiled in test mode by mistake, meaning 6.4 meter jumps for everyone.
Please delete version 2.5 and download the latest ( 2.6 ), which I've tested and is now live...... Unless you want a million 6.4 meter jumps in your jump graph

thuffam
QLD, 40 posts
19 Apr 2023 11:40AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
dachopper said..


Version 2.6 released.

2.5 was compiled in test mode by mistake, meaning 6.4 meter jumps for everyone.
Please delete version 2.5 and download the latest ( 2.6 ), which I've tested and is now live...... Unless you want a million 6.4 meter jumps in your jump graph


Thanks for the update Nick.
First decent wind for a while yesterday... managed few jumps.
Most jump recordings seemed about right... but i did notice some inconsistency. One jump in particular... way higher and longer than other jumps but only measured much smaller, prob 40-50% of what it was (I always count from apex, "one one hundred, two one hundred, ..." as a rough idea of jump size). It could have been because it was a 2-step jump.. initial boost followed by a gust 1/2 way up.
Also did a few others that were substantially higher than what was recorded... but that's just anecdotally - I don't have hard data - will find a waterproof phone bag so I can run surfr and see what that says to compare.
Many thanks again for your efforts with this.

dachopper
WA, 1782 posts
22 Apr 2023 11:11PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
thuffam said..

dachopper said..


Version 2.6 released.

2.5 was compiled in test mode by mistake, meaning 6.4 meter jumps for everyone.
Please delete version 2.5 and download the latest ( 2.6 ), which I've tested and is now live...... Unless you want a million 6.4 meter jumps in your jump graph



Thanks for the update Nick.
First decent wind for a while yesterday... managed few jumps.
Most jump recordings seemed about right... but i did notice some inconsistency. One jump in particular... way higher and longer than other jumps but only measured much smaller, prob 40-50% of what it was (I always count from apex, "one one hundred, two one hundred, ..." as a rough idea of jump size). It could have been because it was a 2-step jump.. initial boost followed by a gust 1/2 way up.
Also did a few others that were substantially higher than what was recorded... but that's just anecdotally - I don't have hard data - will find a waterproof phone bag so I can run surfr and see what that says to compare.
Many thanks again for your efforts with this.


Thanks,

I'm working on it, I do think I have a solution that I think will get rid of these big jumps once and for all

pimalu
49 posts
23 Apr 2023 9:27PM
Thumbs Up

THERE IS NO PRACTICAL WAY TO MEASURE A JUMP WITH THOSE TOY DEVICES THEY ARE TOTALLY INNACURATE. They are reliable just for 2D tracking (and what you see is a processed information, not the real one). Stop living in a self-lying fantasy world and better enjoy this sport. Those trackers are just ESTIMATIVE at best.

Humdinger
44 posts
24 Apr 2023 11:05AM
Thumbs Up

Have to disagree with you there Pimulu...WOOS, Surfr are awesome fun and only add to the sport. Good for tracking progress with your boosts and also seeing how your session went. Always good having the leaderboard there to see how ya mates went and a bit of friendly competition. Most of the crew I know with woos are fanatics about the sport and froth on every session. Heaps of us run a couple woos also and they always agree pretty well so whatever maths, accelerometers and clocks they have in them, they seem to be doing a good job. If boosting big isn't for you then that's cool but anyone that likes going big generally wouldn't say a bad thing about these things.

dachopper
WA, 1782 posts
26 Apr 2023 10:06AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
pimalu said..
THERE IS NO PRACTICAL WAY TO MEASURE A JUMP WITH THOSE TOY DEVICES THEY ARE TOTALLY INNACURATE. They are reliable just for 2D tracking (and what you see is a processed information, not the real one). Stop living in a self-lying fantasy world and better enjoy this sport. Those trackers are just ESTIMATIVE at best.


Actually there is a way, and it has an accuracy level, and it depends what your definition of totally inaccurate actually is.

The big thing is, the app is free and if you have a watch, install it and give it a go. I have a fantastic " 2d" tracking app also called Sail Racer if accuracy is all you want.

Still in the process of " fixing" the monster jump issue.

zlatko
38 posts
13 May 2023 1:46PM
Thumbs Up

First session yesterday with KiteJump Beta - it works pretty damn good! Exceeded my expectations! Thank you @dachopper!
The sea was quite choppy, wind around 25-28kn. I was not counting jumps, but the overall number was quite reasonable. Detection was spot on - I didn't notice neither false trigger nor jumps not being detected. The height measurement was consistent with my perception of the jumps relative to each other, hang time as well. I don't have a Woo or other means to compare if the height is accurate, but my gut and eye feeling - my actual jumps are 1-2m lower than the readings of the watch(Fenix 6). But that could be just me underestimating myself There was one abnormal jump length reading ~40m, which I think is like 2 times what I expect.
I have only few minor recommendations:
- after saving the activity type is set to "other", can you make the default to be "Kiteboarding"? The activity can be edited manually post saving and type changed, but it would be better that it is correct of the bat.
- can you please set icon for the application? Currently it is the generic "IQ" logo, like when the app is broken
- an additional screen with big digits sessions duration and time of the day would be nice.
- for me changing between "BEST JUMP" and "LIVE JUMP" screens should be done via the "UP" & "DOWN" buttons of the watch, which is consistent with the overall UI. Going through one more step by long pressing "MENU" feels unnecessary.
- a black on white option for the screen would be a welcome addition as well

But overall - great work! Appreciated!

dachopper
WA, 1782 posts
17 May 2023 8:42PM
Thumbs Up

Thanks for the review.

I've mentioned on the other board, version 3.0 is not far off. Complete re-write of the code and I've managed to increase the accuracy and remove the fake huge jumps as far as I've managed in testing.

- after saving the activity type is set to "other", can you make the default to be "Kiteboarding"? The activity can be edited manually post saving and type changed, but it would be better that it is correct of the bat.
That is new to me, I have checked the Garmin code, and it is set to kiteboarding, so it may be a Gamin Mobile issue. See with version 3 - will raise with Garmin if it's still there.

- can you please set icon for the application? Currently it is the generic "IQ" logo, like when the app is broken
Yes - This will be one of the final upgrades

- an additional screen with big digits sessions duration and time of the day would be nice.
Copied

- for me changing between "BEST JUMP" and "LIVE JUMP" screens should be done via the "UP" & "DOWN" buttons of the watch, which is consistent with the overall UI. Going through one more step by long pressing "MENU" feels unnecessary.
Best jump to live or array data is currently done via up / down?
If this is not working on your watch, suggest you try uninstall / reinstall.


- a black on white option for the screen would be a welcome addition as well
Copied

zlatko
38 posts
18 May 2023 3:57PM
Thumbs Up

- for me changing between "BEST JUMP" and "LIVE JUMP" screens should be done via the "UP" & "DOWN" buttons of the watch, which is consistent with the overall UI. Going through one more step by long pressing "MENU" feels unnecessary.
Best jump to live or array data is currently done via up / down?
If this is not working on your watch, suggest you try uninstall / reinstall.

You are right - the screens are rotated via the "UP"/"DOWN" buttons, I just haven't tried it Then doing this via the "MENU" button seems redundant? Or this sets up the default screen at app launch?
Anyway - this is really minor, the application is super cool! I am promoting it to all my friends with Garmin watches! :)

dachopper
WA, 1782 posts
19 May 2023 11:28AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
zlatko said..
- for me changing between "BEST JUMP" and "LIVE JUMP" screens should be done via the "UP" & "DOWN" buttons of the watch, which is consistent with the overall UI. Going through one more step by long pressing "MENU" feels unnecessary.
Best jump to live or array data is currently done via up / down?
If this is not working on your watch, suggest you try uninstall / reinstall.

You are right - the screens are rotated via the "UP"/"DOWN" buttons, I just haven't tried it Then doing this via the "MENU" button seems redundant? Or this sets up the default screen at app launch?
Anyway - this is really minor, the application is super cool! I am promoting it to all my friends with Garmin watches! :)


Yeah ... bang on - the Menu is to set the default screen when you first load it up.

Out of interest - which screen are you setting as the default?
I normally use live, but I imagine some people would want either best or the data array.

zlatko
38 posts
19 May 2023 1:45PM
Thumbs Up

Yes - live screen is most useful for me when jumping, so it's the default. When I am on a surfboard as I don't do strapless air I would like to have a screen showing big digits simple data as time & session duration(and may be current speed/heart rate)

dachopper
WA, 1782 posts
25 May 2023 4:23AM
Thumbs Up

Ok, standby for version 3.0

dachopper
WA, 1782 posts
26 May 2023 4:10AM
Thumbs Up

Version 3.0 released.
New watches supported
New AI
New front end
Increased accuracy
I think false jumps are gone !

Enjoy

HumbleSailor
VIC, 11 posts
26 May 2023 9:23PM
Thumbs Up

This app sounds awesome!!
I've recently got myself a Garmin Forerunner 245 Music on sale and I've installed your app! Tomorrow it'll be my first sesh with the watch so I'll give your awesome app a go! Thanks for your work!



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Kitesurfing General


"Kitesurf Jump height measurements......... on your smartwatch?" started by dachopper