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echostorm

QLD

1245 posts

echostorm

QLD, 1245 posts

30 Oct 2006 9:17am

I am forever hearing of newbies almost killing people (hey we were all new to the sport once, I distinctly remember nearly taking out a mum dad and little girl with my LE slamming into the ground less then 1m from a them when I was learning). To stop the carnage a licensing system should be in place where beginners must pass a competency test before being able to ride alone or on certain overpopulated beaches. Until then they must have a licensed instructor with them at all times. Boats need it, cars need it, motorbikes need, now kites should have it. Stop the carnage, stop the bans, start the competency. A tag that u stick to your harness like the aksa one would work a treat.

brooksy

498 posts

brooksy

WA, 498 posts

30 Oct 2006 7:51am

Regulation never works with a transient group like kitesurfers. Friendly advice from fellow kiters works much better.

echostorm

QLD

1245 posts

echostorm

QLD, 1245 posts

30 Oct 2006 9:59am

Yea your right... just hoping to stir the pot

idunno

QLD

21 posts

idunno

QLD, 21 posts

30 Oct 2006 10:04am

Doubt that will ever work sorry echostorm way to many people learning then the number of instructors out there and when will the instructors ever get a chance to go kiting themselves if they are for ever supervising newbies??? I’m with brooksy friendly advice from fellow kiters will work best

Kitehard

2782 posts

Kitehard

WA, 2782 posts

30 Oct 2006 8:10am

Hey Echostorm,

As much as kiters don't like regulations, I believe that one day we will see a license system in place, I think it will be a necessary part of the suatainable growth of the sport.

If you look at many other sports where people were killed or badly injured yoy will see the same. PADI is a classic example, where you can buy the gear but cannot fill a tank without a license, funny thing is that only you die if you screw up with SCUBA.

Hang gliding is another, you used to be able to purchase a glider and teach yourself a long time ago, but now you need a license to fly. Guns are another, to buy a gun or even ammo, you need a license.

I think that in then end it will be better for the sport and the newbies and the rest of us riders if there is a basic competency standard.

Just some thoughts, good winds,

brooksy

498 posts

brooksy

WA, 498 posts

30 Oct 2006 8:18am

How about windsurfers? Same issues when they started to get huge and no regulation. Maybe we should learn from our redneck

cousins?

nebbian

6277 posts

nebbian

WA, 6277 posts

30 Oct 2006 9:05am

quote:
How about windsurfers? Same issues when they started to get huge and no regulation. Maybe we should learn from our redneck cousins?

Haaay Cleatus,

Go git dat shotgun down from de frij, thayres anoth one 'o' dem dayng kitey surfer boys sniffin aroun agin!

echostorm

QLD

1245 posts

echostorm

QLD, 1245 posts

30 Oct 2006 11:18am

quote:
Originally posted by nebbian

quote:
How about windsurfers? Same issues when they started to get huge and no regulation. Maybe we should learn from our redneck cousins?

Haaay Cleatus,

Go git dat shotgun down from de frij, thayres anoth one 'o' dem dayng kitey surfer boys sniffin aroun agin!

LOL! But... you dont ever see sails flying across major roads and landing on families having a picnic

eightfootplus

NSW

298 posts

eightfootplus

NSW, 298 posts

30 Oct 2006 12:52pm

I vote NO to license and YES to competence.

Lets not give the Government any other way to restrict us while taking money out of our pockets for no returns

Why arent newbs taking lessons, is it
A) cost.
B) lack of understanding about the risks.
C) Ha lessons I dont need lessons.

A & B are a big part of it and should be addressed prior to the rest of us being restricted by licences.

Saffer

VIC

4501 posts

Saffer

VIC, 4501 posts

30 Oct 2006 12:57pm

Its one of the exact reasons I think licenses should be introduced...because kiting is so dangerous to people around you. If it was just people killing themselves, then fine, but when a person has the potential to wrap their kite around some innocent bystander sitting on the beach, then I'm actually for it.

The reason people are anti it, is because of change. People don't like change. Scuba diving is far less extreme and it has licensing however the requirement to license emulated from a 3rd party liability perspective. Instructors wanted insurance against being sued, the insurance companies wouldn't give it to them unless their was a formal system in place to standardise it.

To put it into perspective, let one kite go into the road and cause a car accident or multi-car pileup and see how fast a beach is closed to kiting, and possibly a large amount of beaches surround it. This can then be sited as an example of problems associated with kiters and used in other cities as ammunition to close other beaches which may not even be in the same city...scary thought.

If the kiting community puts a licensing system in place, they can at least make it look like they are trying to regulate the sport to make it safer to those around them. If a rider is endangering those around him, it also puts the community in the position to ban him and revoke his licensing, because lets be honest, there are always those people who don't listen to reason and need to be regulated, drink driving laws are a classic example of this.

mUTHA

200 posts

mUTHA

WA, 200 posts

30 Oct 2006 10:13am

as a newb at a very basic level i can say ive had A lesson from an instructor and found it extremely useful and didnt follow through with anymore as i didnt find it nesesary and neither did the instructor.
IMO a licence would probably deter some beginers or people thinkin about gettin into the sport as its another factor and cost to add to the already expensive shopping list.

however i think it is nesecary for beginners and newb to be aware of the risks associated with the sport and they should not participate untill they have had atleast one lesson to understand the risk involved and the only way to help this is not to launch someone who does not look capable of safely using the kite and tell them to get some lessons or worse case help them out for 5-10mins and get their bearings.
maybe make it compulsory at all beaches to have an AKSA membership to cover insurance if any injuries result as an alternative to a licence

junglist

VIC

701 posts

junglist

VIC, 701 posts

30 Oct 2006 1:20pm

I wonder what the statistics actually are?

From reading reports of kiting accidents it seems that there is a far higher % of accidents relating to experienced and over confident kiters than noobs.

Saying that, I think that licensing is inevitable and should be welcomed rather than outright bans.

peanuticus

NSW

341 posts

peanuticus

NSW, 341 posts

30 Oct 2006 1:23pm

quote:
Originally posted by echostorm

quote:
Originally posted by nebbian

quote:
How about windsurfers? Same issues when they started to get huge and no regulation. Maybe we should learn from our redneck cousins?

Haaay Cleatus,

Go git dat shotgun down from de frij, thayres anoth one 'o' dem dayng kitey surfer boys sniffin aroun agin!

LOL! But... you dont ever see sails flying across major roads and landing on families having a picnic

I've seen windsurf sails cartwheeling across a busy road before. and they dent and hurt things when they hit.

Jess

206 posts

Jess

WA, 206 posts

30 Oct 2006 10:31am

This is always a start...
Especially the bit about Attitude; newbies causing trouble seem to over-estimate their ability and thus put other kiters and members of the public at risk.
Of course, many experienced kiters are outright rude, selfish, and/or dangerous too ignoring these basic principles...

~~http://waksa.org.au.86.aspwebhosting.com.au/info.aspx~~

Brink7

NSW

225 posts

Brink7

NSW, 225 posts

30 Oct 2006 3:20pm

Too many poople hurt themselves (and others) while drinking alcohol. I think you should have to get a licence to drink alcohol!

Ive also seen lots of nasty accidents on skateboards. I think its high time we introduced a licence system for skaters!

Untied shoe laces have caused much spilt blood. Imagine how many injuries could be provented if you needed a licence to wear shoes with laces...

Saffer

VIC

4501 posts

Saffer

VIC, 4501 posts

30 Oct 2006 5:10pm

quote:
Originally posted by Craigus

Too many poople hurt themselves (and others) while drinking alcohol. I think you should have to get a licence to drink alcohol!

Ive also seen lots of nasty accidents on skateboards. I think its high time we introduced a licence system for skaters!

Untied shoe laces have caused much spilt blood. Imagine how many injuries could be provented if you needed a licence to wear shoes with laces...

How many times you seen someone wrap their skateboard around a kid's throat? And...how many places are skaters banned because of their attitude to the public? Many!

Alcohol on the other hand IS ACTUALLY licensed. resturants have to be licensed to sell it and they have to check age. Same with liquor stores.

Brink7

NSW

225 posts

Brink7

NSW, 225 posts

30 Oct 2006 9:04pm

OK, so perhaps I was being a smart arse in my first post...

Lets introduce a kite licence so we can be card carrying kitesurfers! I was just thinking how kiting is not expensive enough already!

How much does our new licence cost?
Which authority will issue our licence?
Who pays the kite police to check your licence?
Do you get demerit points for being a naughty kiter?
How many points for what offences?
Whats the appeal process if your kite cop is a spanker - taking advantage of his new authority?
What tests will you need to do, to get your kite licence?
Do learners have to wear L plates and have lower speed limits?
What about double demerits on those crowded long weekends?

Just imagine the sort of tossers who will apply for the Kite Police jobs!

Are these the sort of things that made kitesurfing apeal to you when you decided to learn?

Face it -A Kite licence is a stupid idea!

hosko

393 posts

hosko

WA, 393 posts

30 Oct 2006 6:43pm

"if you're the police, then who will police the police?"
"i dunno.... coastguard?"

waveslave

4263 posts

waveslave

WA, 4263 posts

30 Oct 2006 6:48pm

quote:
Originally posted by Craigus

Face it -A Kite licence is a stupid idea!

Yes,yes, of course it's a dumbfuc idea.
But number-plates might be cool.
A personalised plate maybe, mine would read 'waveslave' WA.

LEWISS

NSW

335 posts

LEWISS

NSW, 335 posts

30 Oct 2006 9:51pm

I'll say NO. AKSA is helping stopping bans of good kiting locations,
Beginners should be considerate, and not kite in areas that are crowded... and all Instructors should REALLY have a license to teach people the right thing, then it is up to everyone to save kiting locations.

Good idea though echostorm

Saffer

VIC

4501 posts

Saffer

VIC, 4501 posts

30 Oct 2006 9:53pm

quote:
Originally posted by Craigus

OK, so perhaps I was being a smart arse in my first post...

Lets introduce a kite licence so we can be card carrying kitesurfers! I was just thinking how kiting is not expensive enough already!

How much does our new licence cost?
Which authority will issue our licence?
Who pays the kite police to check your licence?
Do you get demerit points for being a naughty kiter?
How many points for what offences?
Whats the appeal process if your kite cop is a spanker - taking advantage of his new authority?
What tests will you need to do, to get your kite licence?
Do learners have to wear L plates and have lower speed limits?
What about double demerits on those crowded long weekends?

Just imagine the sort of tossers who will apply for the Kite Police jobs!

Are these the sort of things that made kitesurfing apeal to you when you decided to learn?

Face it -A Kite licence is a stupid idea!

I don't believe it has to be taken to that level. How many people have you seen wearing big L's in Scuba Diving? How many people have you seen being issued demerit points?

Maybe licenses aren't the solution, maybe a beach controlled by the KBV who has the authority to remove kiters if they are acting like idiots, and if the guys want to kite elsewhere, then they are welcome to, but at least it protects everyone else.

LEWISS

NSW

335 posts

LEWISS

NSW, 335 posts

30 Oct 2006 9:54pm

SURFING is a much bigger sport, and no surfer needs a licence, it can also be dangerous to people not surfing.

Dont get the idea to the government or anyone POWERFUL.

It really would suck to have a license

Lewis.

JEFFERSON

72 posts

JEFFERSON

WA, 72 posts

30 Oct 2006 8:07pm

I vote for more rules. Rules are great. How about a rule that if you don't like the heat then stay out of the wind kitchen?

Bring back the arguments where kiters try to prove that kitesurfing is better than all other sports and stop crying about creating more rules and restrictions.

The easiest rule for an authority to make would be.... "No kiting at all." If an outsider bothered to read these posts they would have to agree that it sounds so scary and dangerous that it should all be banned in the interest of public safety.

Other than the odd clown causing the odd bit of havoc kiting really is a pretty soft sport, everyone should take a deep breath and realise that kitesurfing is not the equivalent of aquatic base jumping, largely it is a bunch of middle aged to old men being pulled around the water on little planks.

kiterdan

680 posts

kiterdan

WA, 680 posts

30 Oct 2006 8:29pm

It wont be licences that will be introduced...

Itll be compulsory ASKA membership for those wishing to kite in certain areas. Cottesloe council (WA) wanted a complete ban imposed. Fortunately, a few dedicated kiters got together to fight the council. They came to the compromise that a kiter MUST be a member of ASKA/WAKSA and MUST wear the tag at all times to kite there. If not, and correct me if Im wrong, the ranger has the authority to confiscate your gear.

I am defintely one for this to come in...especially at locations frequented by both kiters and beach goers.

At least this way, you're covered in case something goes wrong, if a certain number of people join then AKSA/WAKSA etc can get some sort of government funding, you can do comps. After your spent thousnads of dollars, whats wrong with an extra $60 to get public liability insurance??

Also, if it ever came to the point (and god forbid) there had to be proficiency testing, it could be introduced through the kiting associations and upon renewal of memberships.

gruezi

3464 posts

gruezi

WA, 3464 posts

30 Oct 2006 8:49pm

Agreed kiterdan.

If tags were compulsory at Melville, then there would be 10 kites out instead of 30 on Sundays...certainly safer.

Just think, there would be another job created, or something more to do for security...............The Tag Police are coming to a beach near you........wierd, but it could happen.

lovey

NSW

177 posts

lovey

NSW, 177 posts

31 Oct 2006 3:02am

how about retailers enforce a no membership, no purchase rule with regards to AKSA. Or offer discounts to those that are... It won't stop noobs purchasing from the web etc, but it's a good way of getting at least a few more people to sign up to what i believe should be a mandatory insurance.

qfmike737

QLD

398 posts

qfmike737

QLD, 398 posts

31 Oct 2006 9:30am

Find a nice spot...dont tell anyone about it...keep it a secret spot so that no freaks come to wreck the party.

sunseeker

QLD

1203 posts

sunseeker

QLD, 1203 posts

31 Oct 2006 3:58pm

As much as I hate to say it, there needs to be some regulation on the beaches and areas which are no go for launching and landing. Even here on the Sunshine Coast which is really uncrowded, there was an incident about 2 weeks ago with an experienced kiter launching upwind from the swimming flags - bridle went over the wingtip on a self launch - the kite went through the flags and ended up hitting the life savers ute. I think demarcated areas for launching and landing would be easier to put in place and easier to enforce than a license.

sunseeker

QLD

1203 posts

sunseeker

QLD, 1203 posts

31 Oct 2006 4:00pm

btw, I think the lifesaver said the word "ban" more than once...

user

1140 posts

user

WA, 1140 posts

31 Oct 2006 2:56pm

Wear a F@#@#@#ing LEASH,fer gods sake!!

baggsy

QLD

118 posts

baggsy

QLD, 118 posts

31 Oct 2006 7:33pm

at what stage do you bring in a licence??

i saw a 2 line delta stunt kite spear a kid because his father thought he knew what he was doing.....
do you licence all kites?? i ride a land board as well do i need a licence too?? if i ride a buggy or a kite cat do i need one then??

these sports all use kites, where do you stop???

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