I saw someone mention the following in the gear review section:

"Jumps are so easy you don't even need to edge"

and I thought to myself, why is this something we want? Where is the challenge if you don't need to even edge? Do you see skaters with velcro on their shoes so they don't need to kick the tail to ollie? Do you see surfers with boards that take the best line through a wave? Do you see motoX riders with sumo suits on so they don't hurt themselves? So the rationale seems to be: change the kite to change the rider; instead of: learn the basics to be a better waterman.

If it is something that kiters want, making it that easy (and safe) then for the love of God, why do people market it as an extreme sport?! Because comparing it any established extreme sports, (and unless you're charging real waves or doing any powered moves at the high ruben lenten does them), it definitely is not an extreme sport.

The tricks that skaters do take a lot of practice, as with bmx, motoX, wakeboarding, surfing. Yet this 'extreme' sport of ours means that anyone with the latest and greatest technology:
1. Doesn't have to learn to edge to jump
2. Can do jumps that when we first started took a couple of months (which IS an attraction of the sport; the challenge). Jealousy? No.
3. Will never learn some of the essentials of kiting learnt through experience. One of the ways our children learn is through experiencing pain or discomfort....oooh don't touch that fire place again that's hot. (Obviously, there's more to this but I'm no expert).
4. Will introduce their fellow 'extreme-sport' enthuisists to the 'exreme sport' = more crowded spots with people doing the aforementioned.

However, it has allowed us the access more difficult locations which is a big bonus; off-shore wave riding etc. It does also introduce an extended wind range - an undeniable bnus.
In addition, there is the safety aspect of it...having said that however, I think that a lot of people believe that they are invincible because they have this new system that depowers the kite 430%. People become less vigilent because 'they've got the latest and greatest'.

And before you ask the question, no I am not the world's greatest kiter, no I can't do KL HP or all of the mobes. Will it help me do any of these, probably not because it's a technique thing. The whole idea of finding another way around learning the basics (change the kite, not the rider), is beyond me. It's exactly like weight loss in today's society,
"I can't be arsed to do exercise to lose weight, I'll just take one of the pills"
It's the American dream!

Just quietly, I don't expect many to agree, but those who do will most likely be the ones who have done it since the beginning. Now what would the significance of that be?

Awaiting the thumbs down vote,
Phil

Love reading these anti Kite development threads.

Go back and use an old 2 line kite and see how much you grizzle about progress and development.

Try doing some of you skateboarding BMX Motocross tricks on kit from 20 years ago and you might just find that you cant do the simple stuff any more.

What you should be looking at is what this new kit will allow you to be able to do with out maiming yourself.

Kits don't have a long life span due to the materials available and used, the development in the kite technology has been huge considering it has only been going less than 10 years.

Remember that not everybody has the skills of ruben lenten, those people can use a wet hanky and still be better than most on the water.

Just remember the reason you kite is becase you don't have the attention span to learn how to windsurf

Now thats how you paint a target on your self

I did try to qualify my statement but might need further refinement.

I think progression is good to a point...yes materials and build quality are obvious candidates. But taking away the challenge of the sport is beyond the point. You don't have to edge to do a jump? What the hell!? It's exactly like when bows came out and people were saying, "I don't need to edge my way out of overpowered conditions"...so no people learning hop straight onto a bow without having to learn the fundamentals of kiting!

I agree, it is very hard to draw the line but I thnk that as this year's line of new kites become available, it's going to be more and more defined. The 2-line argument is a bit extreme though...

And Elmo, for the record, I totally agree about windsurfing...but only on waves. Windsurfing freestyle sucks balls...now THAT is what you call a target.

It is not an anti-kite development thread, it's questioning why you you want to take more and more of the challenge away. Imagine if anyone was able to take a surfboard and surf better than kelly slater, where would the attraction in the sport be? It's about challenging yourself to be better, not getting equipment to make you better.

And by the way, the little dudes in West Indies are killing it on 2002/2003 kites.

Freestyles to wizzbanger for me I still go tits up whenevr I turn corners

i think it might just me more noticable in kiting because development is coming through in leaps and bounds instead of slowly becoming noticable? just an idea?

But that's exactly it, I don't think kites that make us failproof or as good as the pros is good development. It all then comes back to the analogy about weight loss. That whole idea is a joke.

My point with the West Indies kids is that they are talented riders, riding on talent and perserverence alone, not because the kites make them good kiters.

The kiters that started a few years ago will be better kiters, not neccesarily because of experience but they've been forced to learn all the skills. They've perservered.

Dont have to edge to jump...seriously, what a pathetic joke. Some beginner is going to get on it, do a jump and think he's the ducks nuts. Sure he's going to have fun and god on him but where is the challenge? Where's the stoke in being able to do something straight up.

And why say anything? Because it's an opinion, and to an extent, a concern. Nothing is going to come about from it, I already know it, but does that mean we're not allowed to voice an opinion?

What a load of crap from fences!!
Firstly,if you believe any of that hype crap,you are going to be upset !
"don't even have to edge to jump" !!!Yeah right! And the kite just flies itself!!(I actually read that in some gushing,pimping reveiw of a Helix !)
Anyway back to Fences. What do you want us to do to get some "cred" with the immature skateboarding crew??
How about we do away with a quick release? Just have two lines with no depower ? How about a greater injury and Death toll ?THAT should get us some cred! Regular news bulletins about how some kiter got dragged across six lanes of traffic before hitting power lines,the winding around them in ever decreasing circles till he ended up dying by hanging!

Kite development will allways try to go faster,higher,upwindier etc etc.

Where do you get the idea that kiting is being promoted as an extreme sport ?
Anyone can ride a skateboard! (actually I can't!)but I could learn.

quote:

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Originally posted by user

What a load of crap from fences!!
Firstly,if you believe any of that hype crap,you are going to be upset !
"don't even have to edge to jump" !!!Yeah right! And the kite just flies itself!!(I actually read that in some gushing,pimping reveiw of a Helix !)
Anyway back to Fences. What do you want us to do to get some "cred" with the immature skateboarding crew??
How about we do away with a quick release? Just have two lines with no depower ? How about a greater injury and Death toll ?THAT should get us some cred! Regular news bulletins about how some kiter got dragged across six lanes of traffic before hitting power lines,the winding around them in ever decreasing circles till he ended up dying by hanging!

Kite development will allways try to go faster,higher,upwindier etc etc.

Where do you get the idea that kiting is being promoted as an extreme sport ?
Anyone can ride a skateboard! (actually I can't!)but I could learn.

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most valid point so far.

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Originally posted by coreyb

The latest gear doenst take away the challenge of kiting, it extends the boundries of what can be done.

At each level a rider can push their limits that little bit further with a better kite.

Because a total newbie can stay up wind in a week isnt a bad thing. Just because it took me a whole season on two lines. At the time I thought was a good learning curve.

Every sport has plenty of people that want the latest and greatest and then do nothing with it.

I still think the kites have got a way to go yet. The pros still dont blow my mind in the waves like a pro in every other board sport does.

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100%.

Its quite funny, most of the guys who are complaining are the hardcore wakestyle riders who don't like where the sport is going. Its ironic that you see plenty of people complaining about kites being easier, but none complaining about boards being easier to ride. How much easier is it to ride the latest boards compared to the old surfboard style ones thick foam ones which damn difficult to edge with.

Bring back the good old days, when all the kiters knew each other, and all were friendly to each other our common enemy was the deluded winsurfer. all the kooks were still watching us on their computer screens.

But give me todays gear

Ray

Well fences i've read your bleating about kiting turning into a too easy sport.

So i think you should embrace a thoroughly new sport altogether.

It's called "try doing it with the other hand"

I'm sure it will pose some really interesting challenges after years of practice.

quote:

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And for the unintelligent guys who think this is a trawl, or having a go at somebody, or bringing up a debate about what is cool and what is not, don't contribute to an otherwise sincere topic.

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DOOOOOOD you would only have like 1 reply to this sincere topic then and that one reply is real intelligent.
If you want a challenge go and solve global warming or climb a big mountain or something.

(edit) Damn Spacemonkey slipped in there so you would have 2 replys and his post has a valid point.

only problem with new kites are you progress with out the getting to know your friend pain. no consequence = no respect. if **** goes wrong and you've never had a need for a down wind buffer your gonna learn how important they are in a worse way than getting dragged through the sand on the beach ect.
[/pointless spew that no one will care about]

comment of the week goes too.....

quote:

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Originally posted by Blownaway

I have yet to see a newby on the latest gear ride like a pro...

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Pearl, I learnt on an old kite as did a lot of the others. I didn't suffer multiple injuries? I also didn't give up because it was too hard nor did I blame the kite. If I didn't land something, it came down to skill and/or dedication...not the kite.

JEFFERSON, you'd have to agree that there is an attitude amongst a lot of kiters that kiting is extreme. Probably because the average age of kiters is around 60?

AND RAYQ, YOU READ MY MIND! THOSE WERE THE DAYS!

I think that the development of kites has led to the popularity of unhooked riding. For a lot of riders this is the best way to get back to basics and feel the power of the kite again. Ditch the depower and edge like a bitch! It's fun! It's powered! and you can't get that feeling with heaps of depower on tap.

I don't think that the advances in tech take away the challenge but they change the challange.

I have only been on the water for a couple of seasons but I kite landboarded for a few years before that. I still kite on land a lot and I love the advances in technology. In the early days I came home hurt after every session. No depower and gusty inland crap was a recipe for disaster. In those days a huge jump in gusty crap over gravel was like a 'pro' move. Now the challenge is not to do the jump but to spin/grab/flip. The development has changed the challenge. We all just need to go bigger, higher HARDER!

mike