Longer lines

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thestig
thestig
NSW
22 posts
NSW, 22 posts
27 Oct 2008 11:57pm
Hi guys,

First post just a quick query.

Does anyone have any experience with line extensions/longer lines say out to 40m?

Its just that I have a 10m Turbo Diesel and find myself often in around 11-12knots where I have enough power to get out of the water, but not enough power to get the next pump in to get into that plaining "next gear". If I had longer lines then the pump would be longer right? Or should I be looking at saving up for a second hand 15m?

Its just that my local either has 0 knots, 35knots (too much for me!) or 11-12 where its frustratingly close to enough but just not quite. More 15-20knot days would be good!
Kitehard
Kitehard
WA
2782 posts
WA, 2782 posts
27 Oct 2008 10:49pm
Hey thestig,

Yes, you can add lines up to about 40m in total length, but no longer. It will increase the length of the power stroke for a more sustained power dive which will probably give you what you need.

Did you know that you can also creat power on the "up stroke". By sheeting out a little, the angle of attack of the foil to wind direction will be eased and will allow the kite to increase speed and subsequently increase apparent wind power. Another tight turn and the second dive, and you'll be up and away.

Now for the negetive: By adding line length, you also add lines at perpendicular angle to the wind, which equals a fair bit of drag. Drag from the lines, at the kite end, will hold the kite back in the wind window ie, you'll lose upwind ability which will make it harder to stay upwind especially in marginal winds.

The next problem is that the back lines will droop with the line drag and hang in big loops back in the wind. This adds slack to the steering lines and will make your steering less responsive although it should be OK with 40m, to go longer becomes very hard to steer and go upwind.

These problems can be offset to a degree by using thinner lines, but that just starts getting silly.

Buy yourself a set of 10m line extensions and have fun! It's all good! Other option is I'm sure you could find a second hand or even superceded bow kite for a few hundred dollars and voila!

Good winds,



thestig
thestig
NSW
22 posts
NSW, 22 posts
28 Oct 2008 1:20am
Cheers mate,

Ill definitely try the sheeting out technique. A mate mentioned it recently and I've been trying to incorporate a pattern of sheeting in and out based what stage of the pump my kite is in.

The only reason that I looked into longer lines was because in similar conditions, I tried a 15m and found that because it turned slower, I couldn't get as many pumps in as the 10. So I had more power on the pump itself but was pumping slower. So I figured a longer pump on the quicker turning 10m might be a better option). If I got really thin line extensions it probably wouldnt cost much. (A quick google puts it around the $30 mark)

If the extensions are just for light wind work then getting really thin ones doesn't seam too silly to me.

If that doesn't work Ill save up for a high performance 2nd hand 15m that will turn quickly. Apparently the Revs do that pretty well. Maybe have a 2:1 setup for faster steering? Is that right?
sunseeker
sunseeker
QLD
1203 posts
QLD, 1203 posts
28 Oct 2008 7:56am
Stig, I had a TD when they came out. Because of the 2:1 setup, the kite turns very quickly and depowers very quickly and can lose a fair bit of power through the turns. The best technique I found in generating power in the up turn and down turn was to set my stopper half way or so down the depower line so that on the upturn I depowered up to the stopper and do a slow bigger arc turn back up.
I'd say 11-12 is pretty marginal for a 10 so you're doing well.
KIT33R
KIT33R
NSW
1716 posts
NSW, 1716 posts
28 Oct 2008 9:14am
Another option is to get a second board. Wider, flatter, longer, planes early - makes a huge difference in light winds. Get one second hand. It will be a cheaper option than a bigger kite and last a hell of a lot longer.

My biggest kite is a 10m. I can stay up wind in 10 knots on my bigger board. (I weigh about 64 kgs, which helps too)
thestig
thestig
NSW
22 posts
NSW, 22 posts
28 Oct 2008 12:13pm
Wow, options options options. Thanks guys.
stanhalen
stanhalen
WA
187 posts
WA, 187 posts
28 Oct 2008 4:17pm
Get a 20metre kite the shops arre just about giving them away, and the exercise in
all that pumping is a good work out.

Line extentions are a funny thing in vic, a couple of times a year we get high wind
days on northerlys at Rye. The wind is higher than 30metres and the water dead calm, line extentions come out for those wierd days.
eightfootplus
eightfootplus
NSW
298 posts
NSW, 298 posts
28 Oct 2008 11:58pm
If you have an old set of lines just use them and double them up. Larcs head one set to the other.

I tried it once in marginal winds 14-15knts and had 60m lines up.
As long as the kite flies your fine. I didnt have much trouble with drag etc.

The big issue is setting up space and flying with other kites as you use up heaps of air space. Also strange looks from other kiters

Down stroke power was unreal and the kite accellerates and flies quickly so be sure to give yourself plenty of space to turn it back up.

I found it gave me a sore back from the pull.

Worth a try.
kapac
kapac
69 posts
69 posts
29 Oct 2008 12:49pm

Another option is to get a second board. Wider, flatter, longer, planes early - makes a huge difference in light winds. Get one second hand. It will be a cheaper option than a bigger kite and last a hell of a lot longer.

My biggest kite is a 10m. I can stay up wind in 10 knots on my bigger board. (I weigh about 64 kgs, which helps too)


KIT33R

What size is your bigger board? I need one. I am similar in size to you with a 10m and am not sure what board size I should move up to. I have a 138x40 at the moment and get moving in 13kts + on that.
KIT33R
KIT33R
NSW
1716 posts
NSW, 1716 posts
29 Oct 2008 3:11pm
Hi kathypacific

My big board is a 138 x 42. Width is more important than length as well as very little rocker (really flat board). If you have small feet wide boards can be a real pain in the shins though. I would suggest trying a few first until you find one that is comfortable. Sometimes I borrow a 152 Underground from a friend which really motors in light winds. it's pretty wide but you can't throw it around like a smaller board.

Other light wind tips are - keeping the kite moving, using each stroke to generate power, down stoke and up stroke. This is a learnt art. Also flatten the board on the water to increase the wetted area, don't edge too hard and use your hips to keep the board up wind. This means centering your weight a bit until the board nearly slides sideways. Use the swells to maintain speed, don't plow through them but go with them when necessay to get some lift. Bear away in the lulls and edge in the gusts. Once you have board speed the apparent wind on the kite will give you even more speed.

Light wind riding is a real art. You have to feel the water under you and fly with your fingertips. If all this sounds a bit airy don't dispare, light wind flying can be a real challenge and once learnt will improve your general kiting no end.

My theory is that big kites are for big people not light winds.
thestig
thestig
NSW
22 posts
NSW, 22 posts
29 Oct 2008 11:36pm
Yeah i got that feeling as well when I used the 15m. It had more power but was slower to turn etc. Are you a sailor as well by any chance? Those tactics seem to be adapted somewhat.
KIT33R
KIT33R
NSW
1716 posts
NSW, 1716 posts
30 Oct 2008 9:08am
I windsurfed for about 10 years until I saw the light and I've been kiting about 5 years now. I think you're right, these tactics are universal to all forms of sailing. Some people find light wind boring but it can be fun and challenging. The young guys generally don't get it. You certainly have to think a lot more while you're on the water.
ispi
ispi
NSW
59 posts
NSW, 59 posts
30 Oct 2008 9:39pm
KIT33R said...

Another option is to get a second board. Wider, flatter, longer, planes early - makes a huge difference in light winds. Get one second hand. It will be a cheaper option than a bigger kite and last a hell of a lot longer.

My biggest kite is a 10m. I can stay up wind in 10 knots on my bigger board. (I weigh about 64 kgs, which helps too)


Don't you mean 46kg ?????

Cheers,

FELIX

KIT33R
KIT33R
NSW
1716 posts
NSW, 1716 posts
31 Oct 2008 9:15am
ispi said...

KIT33R said...

Another option is to get a second board. Wider, flatter, longer, planes early - makes a huge difference in light winds. Get one second hand. It will be a cheaper option than a bigger kite and last a hell of a lot longer.

My biggest kite is a 10m. I can stay up wind in 10 knots on my bigger board. (I weigh about 64 kgs, which helps too)


Don't you mean 46kg ?????

Cheers,

FELIX




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