Meeting Minutes

Melville Beach Kitesurfers

Opening:

The first social meeting of the Melville Beach Kitesurfers commenced at 8:40pm on 12 Jan 2005 at Legends Bar, Attadale, chaired by Mike Holmes.

Present:

28 Strong. Thanks to everyone who came along. DVD’s and drinks started at 6pm and finished around 11pm.

Announcements:

It was unanimously agreed that this meeting and any future meetings would follow an informal/social format.

Thankyou to Jonathon Keys for attending and outline of issues at Cottesloe

Open Issues:

The following Rules were put to vote and unanimously approved:

i) WAKSA membership is to be encouraged for anyone kiting at Melville Beach. All locals to inform non regulars and non Seabreeze readers. Please support our cause.

ii) A Take-off and Landing Zone is to be put in place which extends from the mean tide level on the beach, seaward 50m and North/South for the entire length of Melville Beach.

The 50m line will be marked at the main kite area by 2 small white floats. One in front of the top tree and the other further North. Location to be confirmed on site. Phil to supply and Paul to assist with installation.

No Kiters are to sail / jump / turn / body drag inside this zone unless launching or landing.

iii) All kites are to be flown to seaward side when walking back up the beach or stationary in vicinity of beach.

A laminated poster will be produced to list local rules and highlight the 50m corridor. Paul to format. Signage options to be considered prior to next meeting.

It was unanimously agreed not to involve Melville council at this point in time. Jeff proposed an informal discussion might be beneficial. Further action to be re assessed at the next meeting.

A proposal to move beginners down the beach was ruled out so that they can be assisted by the more experienced kiters if needed. All kiters to actively offer assistance and promote a freindly kiting culture.

Less experienced kiters to launch / land at a safe distance from shore. All kiters to action and promote.

Next Social Meeting to be held on the 10th February at 7pm. Location to be advised. Everyone is welcome.

The following Rules were put to vote and unanimously approved:

i) WAKSA membership is to be compulsory for anyone kiting at Melville Beach. All locals to inform non regulars and non Seabreeze readers


Kiters don't have the authourity to enforce WAKSA membership or tell people they can't use the beach or water, 28 people don't own Lucky Bay! How can someone visiting from the east or another country organise WAKSA membership? Does being a member of WAKSA make you a safe kiter? Is there a safety course or procedure review before you are given WAKSA membership or do you just pay some money? What do the "locals" do when a non WAKSA member launches their kite, grab their gear, hog tie them and wave a form in their face? This is going a bit far and is completely out of the realm of a group of kiteboarders. We aren't the council, rangers, police... I'm amazed that point one was unanimously approved.


Everything else sounds great

Be careful posting signs without approval, the local pollies are already in hot water over posters in Melville.

peco

quote:

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Kiters don't have the authourity to enforce WAKSA membership or tell people they can't use the beach or water, 28 people don't own Lucky Bay

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No your right, we don't have the authority. But by being a member of WAKSA your indemnified against injury to others, in Lucky Bays case its essential being so close to footpath, road etc. we also don't own the bay either but if you kite their regulary then you have some responsibility to set an example for the newbies, visitors etc.

Should you have attended the meeting you would have heard Johnathon Keys give a very interesting talk about what happend at Cott. I too dont like insurance just to go to the beach, but we're not living in the 60's anymore. Also if for example the council does decide they want to look closer at kiters at Melville, if we all have WAKSA membership then we can be represented by WAKSA and the council have an incorporated body that they can talk to.

Get membership, or keep your head buried in the sand.

Actually, I think Melville Council will find it pretty hard to enforce WAKSA membership. Unless I'm mistaken, you still don't need a licence to kite surf in Western Australia - and insurance is not yet compulsory. Unless there is a law to enforce, there is nothing the council can do. The Melville Kite Surfer's group has no legal or otherwise authority to enforce anything. Be careful here, you are the ones who could end up in hot water.

I admire your steps to improve safety - but you need to be careful in the language you are using to self police the area.

A policy of education rather than enforcement might be a better tactic at this early stage.

-> "Should you have attended the meeting you would have heard Johnathon Keys give a very interesting talk about what happend at Cott."

The danger, Poor Relative, is that what happened at Cott will be repeated at Melville 'because' of your tactics, not despite them. Let me give you an example:

If you see a newcomer engaging is a less than ideal practice - what are you going to say ? There are two options:

1. "Hey mate, we're trying to encourage people to avoid that because we've had a couple of close calls so we're proposing that we... etc. etc."

OR

2. "Hey mate, are you a member of WAKSA ? You're not allowed to do that".

The second option will probably result in a less than polite exchange with the result of more potential danger, as the offending rider enforces their point (and right) on the return run into shore. Pissed off kite surfers are the most dangerous in my experience.

The first option, might just succeed.

My point is, you've already pissed at least one regular off with comments like "or bury your head in the sand". What sort of success do you think you are going to enjoy down at Melville with that attitude ? Again - I appeal to some common sense here. Let's engage in a policy of education and diplomacy - and avoid the "enforce", "rules" etc. language while we still can.

The council will choose to ban kite surfing despite our efforts if they perceive a danger. Promoting a culture of division by using phrases such as that which you have used will be more detrimental to your cause.

quote:

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Originally posted by poor relative

quote:

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Kiters don't have the authourity to enforce WAKSA membership or tell people they can't use the beach or water, 28 people don't own Lucky Bay

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No your right, we don't have the authority. But by being a member of WAKSA your indemnified against injury to others, in Lucky Bays case its essential being so close to footpath, road etc. we also don't own the bay either but if you kite their regulary then you have some responsibility to set an example for the newbies, visitors etc.

Should you have attended the meeting you would have heard Johnathon Keys give a very interesting talk about what happend at Cott. I too dont like insurance just to go to the beach, but we're not living in the 60's anymore. Also if for example the council does decide they want to look closer at kiters at Melville, if we all have WAKSA membership then we can be represented by WAKSA and the council have an incorporated body that they can talk to.

Get membership, or keep your head buried in the sand.

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You both make some good points, and yeah i suppose i was abit harsh, sorry if i offended Peco wasn't my intention, working night shift at the mo, doesnt do a lot for mood [}:)]

Yeah i dont think anyone wants to use a "heavy handed" approach, in fact we spoke to someone just recently who was "going for it a bit" very diplomatically and they were happy with what was said, and agreed to a few "rules" for next time.

I think maybe we need to say encourage WAKSA membership rather than make it a pre requisite.

I suppose our objective is good, we want to preserve kiting at melville, we want to make it safe as possible for evreyone, and if something does happen to draw attention to us well we will be ready to lobby our point.

we're just trying to do the right thing and i think that the more people who have imput into the process then great. You learn from mistakes.

OK Everyone listen up.

A great initiative was taken by Melville kiters to get together to discuss 2 important issues.

1. Safety (both kiter and public)

2. Preventing our sport being banned from Melville Waters.

While point 1 is very important our main objective as a group is to prevent our local spot being banned.

If you have an opinion and quite frankly all locals should, then please get involved. But do it in the correct manner. Its important to discuss these issues in a controlled format. (ie Group Meeting)

Everyone had there chance to come along to discuss these issues and vote on a way forward. A number of the comments posted here are by individuals who are uninformed. I invite anyone who wasn't at the meeting and who is unsure of whats going on to please come and have a chat today between 11:30 and 12 at Lucky Bay. I drive the Black Jeep. Another meeting will be held in 4 weeks and I hope you are all there.

Senario 1: Kite takes out Lady and kid on footpath. Kiter does not have WAKSA insurance.

Lady sues Council. Council bans kiting.

Senario 2: Kite takes out Lady and kid on footpath. Kiter does have WAKSA insurance.

Lady sues Council. Council covered by individuals PI insurance provided by WAKSA. This is terrible but could happen.

The Cottesloe Kitesurfing group and the Cottesloe Council have set the example here. Cottesloe is now the first council to recognise Kiting as a legal sporting activity and enforces WAKSA membership.

Important to note here that Kiting is not legal in any location other than Cottesloe. By law to kite in Cottesloe you should have WAKSA membership. Everywhere else we fall under the powered water craft catagory.

The Cottesloe group had no choice but to go down the long and arduous path of consultation with council to achieve this great end result. They saved their spot. Well done.

We are not in the same position and have the luxury of being able to initiate some rules on our own as a group. This was voted on at the meeting.

This is not about being heavy handed. Its all about looking out for each other and our sport. OK?

If this initiative is not supported by the community, we may have to take this to Council and WAKSA membership could be enforced. We don't want that.I think we can do something on our own so can we all please work together on this.

All Please note:

1. Please support our cause and get your membership asap. We cant enforce this but it covers you, the community and council so it's $60 well spent.

2. Please adopt the new safety rules which have been introduced.

On behalf of the Meville Beach Kite Group, Safe Kiting

SETTLE DOWN FOLKS
Anyone who heard the report from Jonathon Keys as to how the impending ban at Cottesloe was aborted would have voted this item in - hence it was the first policy item adopted with unanimous approval. This does not mean that everyone present who isnt already a WAKSA member is going to rush out and join up nor does it mean that if you are not a member you are going to have someone 'ordering' you off the beach.

Peco has objected to one item. His arguments as to why that particular item should not be 'enforced' could equally apply to all those items he thought "looked great". 28 kiters do not own Lucky Bay - he is quite right - we dont. Nor do we have any power to enforce ANYTHING we adopt as 'rules' for kiting in the area.
What we are about here is developing a set of 'GUIDELINES' related to keeping kiters, beach users, passer-bys and residents as safe as possible. 'ENFORCEMENT' at this stage can, and will, only be by way of informing & encouraging.
When (& it is 'when' not 'if') those who do have the power to impose sanctions, police the area & enforce those sanctions become involved we want to have tested set of safe practice guidelines to hand over which they hopefully will view as an informed and workable alternative to an outright ban. Safe practices for kiting can only be developed by kiters who know & understand the sport. Outsiders to the sport only have 2 options - allow it OR ban it. The authorities will not set about a process of 'how can we regulate these kiters so we dont have to ban them'.
We, individually and as a group, have a responsibility to ensure that our pursuit of pleasure does not endanger or cause grief or inconvenience to others. The group acting at this time is doing the responsible thing. It is a genuine attempt keep everyone safe in an unregulated situation. But also adopting these moves proactively is going to work very much in our favour when the authorities do step into ring.
We need time to develop workable, acceptable & effective guidelines which allow us to use the area with as few restrictions as possible but which protect all as much as possible. The more time we have before others become involved the more all of these factors can be addressed, tested & resolved. We need to work together. There is no need for confrontation. Everyones opinions on every suggestion/option etc are welcome. If you miss a meeting and are informed of a 'guideline' on the beach discuss it - dont over react - we are only talking about ideas we are trialling.
MOST IMPORTANTLY
Meetings are to be held regularly for discussion, suggestion, debate etc of our 'guidelines'.
There is sure to be heated debate over issues as they arise and are adopted or rejected.
THIS FORUM IS NOT AN APPROPRIATE PLACE FOR THAT DEBATE.
It is appropriate to publish our resolutions here but it can only be destructive to respond to them here.
Keep your reaction to EVERYTHING calm & limit your response to beach discussions & to meetings.

NOTE : Even the seemingly innocent 'good' advise like that above referring to signage/floats was discussed at the meeting. Had you been there you would understand why this suggestion too is not at all appropriate on this public forum - pass on these (ALL) points personally OR better still come along to meetings and raise them there.
PS Written & posted before I read the above post from PaulG.
I will leave it here now if only to to re-inforce the similar ideas.

"He who enjoys most - WINS"

quote:

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Originally posted by PaulG
A proposal to move beginners down the beach was ruled out so that they can be assisted by the more experienced kiters if needed. All kiters to actively offer assistance and promote a freindly kiting culture.

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It would be good if experienced kiters stayed upwind to allow beginners to have more room. Alot of riders are moving into the downwind area where begineers had room to move.

I agree whole hartedly with ya phil (puppetonastring) it is a topic that definately requires the attention of all kiters involved. I just hope you guys can sort something out that isn't going to bring in outside authorities & give the public a bad perception of kiting. In my veiw kiteboarding is such a great sport & if done correctly it can be quite safe to both kiters & the general public using the beaches we choose to kite at. All im worried about, is that places like Meville will make precedents for other councils to go off & ruin kiteboardings reputation in other areas. The though of having insurance through WAKSA or other organisations is good but i see it as unnecessary if we can prevent the need for it. I see it in the same light as asking the public to pay for membership or insurance to go to the beach & be aloud to swim between the flags.

-> "in the end - waksa is not being enforced ..."

The point is that you CAN'T enforce WAKSA membership, even if you wanted to. Heck, you CAN'T even enforce the stay outside the cray float idea. What you therefore need to adopt, is a strategy of education, encouragement and non confrontational self policing. Coming up with a set of "minutes" or a collection of "rules" will not get you very far with the vast majority of casual kite surfers who visit Melville and don't give a toss about the Melville Kite Surfer's association.

Your idea to make Melville a safer place by calling a meeting and proposing some actions is to be commended. We all want Melville to be a safe place to kite for many years to come. You just need to be very careful about the language and style you use when you publish and communicate. If you marginalise the "non-members" you risk making the place more unsafe.

Good luck with it all.

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Originally posted by robbo

The only argument i see with that psylor is:
When we go down to the beach to swim, the potential really isnt there for us to accidently seriously injur someone.

Lets face it when ur on a kite, theres a multitude of things - specially for newbs - that can wrong and even with safety rules being agreed and abided by everyone, something like that can go wrong when there is little room for error.

If i kited at a beach where there were no cars or ppl to hit, just 5 meters away from shore, i prolly wouldnt get WAKSA insurance either.

In spots like melville, cott, and Peli point - it just makes sense, cause there are lots of people around to hit if things were to go wrong.

in the end - waksa is not being enforced, but i reckon if you dont have it in areas that are heavily populated, each person out there is someone waiting to sue you.

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Yep i reckon there might be some alternatives.
Lets discuss them on the beach or at a meeting

"He who enjoys most - WINS"